ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[mtruong34]

6 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Does this help? ?

Is the red cable an ethernet cable?

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, mtruong34 said:

Is the red cable an ethernet cable?

 

No, it is the DC cable supplied with the AC-AC supply. Good quality silver plated wires. I intend to change them as soon as I have find the ultimate AC cable. That might take a while! ?

[Nicholas_S]

28 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Does this help? ?

This is a balanced & isolated 230-12VAC feeder supply but it can be fed with a LPSU or SMPS as well. 1 Vf for best results in series. 3 Vf in single.

The proverbial "thousand words"... much appreciated!

 

[mozes]

31 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

No, it is the DC cable supplied with the AC-AC supply. Good quality silver plated wires. I intend to change them as soon as I have find the ultimate AC cable. That might take a while! ?

If you can get your hand on Furutech FA-220 OCC copper (14Awg), you will be rewarded with great dynamics and natural tonality. It is expensive and not easy to find. Don’t buy from eBay as they are fake.

[mtruong34]

7 minutes ago, mozes said:

If you can get your hand on Furutech FA-220 OCC copper (14Awg), you will be rewarded with great dynamics and natural tonality. It is expensive and not easy to find. Don’t buy from eBay as they are fake.

Don't understand why you wouldn't just try the POE injectors and ethernet cable since they are so cheap and easy. Isn't that what this thread is all about?

[mozes]

18 minutes ago, mtruong34 said:

Don't understand why you wouldn't just try the POE injectors and ethernet cable since they are so cheap and easy. Isn't that what this thread is all about?

I tried the Supra Cat8 and used 4 conductors for -ve and 4 for +ve and it sounds very good, but it doesn’t compete with top quality cables like the one I shared. If your bench mark is mainstream cables like Canare and Belden, then the Supra tweak is recommended.

 I am also responding to @Cornan quest for AC cable and not a DC cable. This FA-220 was used for AC cables if you don’t need a 3rd conductor for ground.

[mtruong34]

36 minutes ago, mozes said:

I tried the Supra Cat8 and used 4 conductors for -ve and 4 for +ve and it sounds very good, but it doesn’t compete with top quality cables like the one I shared. If your bench mark is mainstream cables like Canare and Belden, then the Supra tweak is recommended.

 I am also responding to @Cornan quest for AC cable and not a DC cable. This FA-220 was used for AC cables if you don’t need a 3rd conductor for ground.

I see. From what I was reading, I thought ethernet as DC cable could compete with the best of the best. Also, I thought that red cable was just a normal DC lead that could have been easily and vastly improved.

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

I tried the Supra Cat8 and used 4 conductors for -ve and 4 for +ve and it sounds very good, but it doesn’t compete with top quality cables like the one I shared. If your bench mark is mainstream cables like Canare and Belden, then the Supra tweak is recommended.

 

http://www.furutech.com/2013/01/29/1480/

 

In the end having a much larger gauge @ 14 AWG turned out to be one of the determinant factors that really mattered

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=279&tab=comments#comment-792104

On 3/7/2018 at 10:12 PM, mozes said:

I have been building some DC cables for my personal use and I have tried many many conductors with various gauges including copper, silver, and silver plated copper, stranded and solid core. 

I found that the most important aspect

to SQ is gauge, go for the largest gauge you can regardless whether it is solid core or stranded. As for copper vs. silver you really need to try in your system to find the tonality that matches best with your system. 

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/?page=32&tab=comments#comment-743743

On 11/17/2017 at 1:36 AM, Cornan said:

Yes, I use silver wires on my DC- output groundings. Even thin gauge silver sounds better than thick gauge copper. This is something well known by Entreq.

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audioquest-dc-cables-why-are-there-almost-no-high-end-dc-cables

Quote

You folks may be over-invested in the star-quad construct.  I made several PCs that way from TFT-insulated silver-plated copper wire that were subsequently trounced by thicker, pure silver wire in a simple twisted pair with a foil shield.  It's worth a try.

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

 

In the end having a much larger gauge @ 14 AWG turned out to be one of the determinant factors that really mattered

 

Having briefly tried the Star Quad concept,  I prefer to use a short as possible length of 2 core 7.5A mains cable, although it is  often difficult to terminate in some plugs, whose opening may need enlarging a little, and possibly need a small piece of Heat Shrink cable at the end as well.

Sometimes with higher current loads, the resistance of the cable when used with a very low output impedance PSU is more important. 

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, mozes said:

If you can get your hand on Furutech FA-220 OCC copper (14Awg), you will be rewarded with great dynamics and natural tonality. It is expensive and not easy to find. Don’t buy from eBay as they are fake.

 

Thanks for the pointer Moussa!   Furutech is always on my mind.

[seeteeyou]

FYI - in addition to PCOCC from Furutech, we could also get 102 SSC (successor of PCOCC-A) from Oyaide

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/oyaide-cables

 

8.8-mm outer diameter so that's pretty close to the FA-220 @ 9.0-mm

 

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chuya-online/item/134625/

https://oyaide.com/catalog/products/tunami-terzo-v2-6517.html

https://oyaide.com/catalog/products/tunami-terzo-v2.html

[bit01]

I guess for low power devices (<1A) the wire diameter is not such a big factor in short lengths and where a little voltage drop can be tolerated? As  an example: the Uptone LPS-1.2 to Sonore uRendu- I have used 15.5 AWG (1.31mm^2) 10in long Cardas and the Tera Grand flat braided CAT7 cable 4x30AWG (.20 mm^2) 2M long per leg on the other extreme. I believe the CAT7 edges it!

[totoxio]

@bit01 Is the flat Tera Grand similar in construction to the flat Ugreen Cat7? Because I tried the Ugreen last night... It was pure audio bliss!. I think it's better than the round Ugreen, a bit smoother, darker and slightly better midrange. And you were right, almost no volume increase. Both my round and flat Ugreen Cat7 are not fully broken in yet, so I'll report back in a few days.

[bit01]

The Tera Grand is a smaller diameter wire from what I gather from the web, 30AWG vs 26AWG for the UGREEN. This one has a braided outer jacket, is narrower but a bit thicker overall than the UGREEN. I do not know about the insulation or  if there are other internal differences. Glad you are enjoying your new purchase!

[totoxio]

Thank you @bit01

 

This is some interesting information: If I understand correctly, ethernet cables could maybe act as a common mode noise filter, in part because each pair of conductors is twisted at a different rate. 

 

Could this explain the magic?

 

https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/data-center/some-interesting-twists-about-ethernet-cabling/

[totoxio]

I just realized that wushuliu had posted some very interesting info regarding this topic (twisting rate on ethernet cable pairs) on page 3.

 

[Bricki]

3 hours ago, totoxio said:

Thank you @bit01

 

This is some interesting information: If I understand correctly, ethernet cables could maybe act as a common mode noise filter, in part because each pair of conductors is twisted at a different rate. 

 

Could this explain the magic?

 

https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/data-center/some-interesting-twists-about-ethernet-cabling/

Yeah I'm sure we are hearing the combined benefits of the shielding in cat 7 cables and the twists acting as a filter.... I cut up one of my audioquest pearl Ethernet cables yesterday and made 3 half meter lengths to use with screw connectors... I plugged all in and nearly cried because it was so abysmal ?... I was expecting an increase in sound quality and got a decrease... I put my other 3 cables plus PoE adapters back in and this time I put two 1.5 meter lengths between my canare 4s6 cable out of my sps-500 and my sMS-200...these two lengths sound better than just one... I have already cut up one cable so I am reluctant to try cutting another one to get rid of the PoE adapters... I don't need to worry too much about voltage drop because my sps-500 is at 12v and the sMS-200 can run fine on 7-12v.

 

From my testing these Ethernet cables seem to be acting like a filter and the longer the better (although there must be a sweet spot)... A half meter length terminated with screw adapters didn't sound particularly good and 3 meters sounded better than 1.5 meters.... Obviously this is just what I heard in my system, others may have a different experience. ?

[marce]

On 5/30/2018 at 1:48 AM, JohnSwenson said:

My current ideas as to what matters for a DC cable is inductance and dielectric absorption. The inductance is primarily determined by the geometry of the wires, and dielectric absorption is determined by the insulation on the wires.

 

 

 

John S.

John,

I cannot see how dielectric absorption can have any effect at DC... Even low frequencies it has minimal effect at DC it will have none? Puzzled.

[mansr]

21 minutes ago, marce said:

I cannot see how dielectric absorption can have any effect at DC... Even low frequencies it has minimal effect at DC it will have none? Puzzled.

Same thing for inductance.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Same thing for inductance.

Do either of you have another idea or explanation as to the cause of the positive impact of these various DC and network cables on sound quality observed here?

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Deleted

[mansr]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Do either of you have another explanations or ideas for the impact of these various DC and network cables on sound quality observed here?

Sure, I can think of at least two:

• Poor internal regulators and power distribution in the affected devices
• Imagination

[marce]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

Do either of you have another idea or explanation as to the cause of the positive impact of these various DC and network cables on sound quality observed here?

Well it definitely is NOT dielectric absorption, it is a high frequency ac issue, the main thing being ac not dc as we are discussing with these cables. Sorry but we can't ignore physics. 

[totoxio]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

Do either of you have another idea or explanation as to the cause of the positive impact of these various DC and network cables on sound quality observed here?

Well, not really. They will be all speculation until someone actually tests this cables with the right equipment. But that doesn't stop us from enjoying this POE trick. It's very fun actually, the cable swapping, the differences among cable brands, flat vs. round... And above all it's so inexpensive!

[mansr]

24 minutes ago, marce said:

Well it definitely is NOT dielectric absorption, it is a high frequency ac issue, the main thing being ac not dc as we are discussing with these cables. Sorry but we can't ignore physics. 

Yeah, I don't see how dielectric absorption could ever be relevant for a DC cable. With a poor downstream regulator, I can imagine a spiky current draw being influenced by the inductance, though.