ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[look&listen]

8 hours ago, rb2013 said:

my USAM thread regarding a DIY project to make a short star quad cable to connect my LT3045 boxes to the IR and other devices

 

4 hours ago, rb2013 said:

Alex's post (#112) on Amir's ASR review of the LPS-1 thread

Not understand thinking to not post link to close related USAM thread, but post link to ASR snake pit?

 

8 hours ago, rb2013 said:

If I remember correctly he mentioned using Canare microphone cable.  This is different then the Canare 4s6 speaker cable Ghent uses

If I remember correctly ? UpTone use Belden #9418 (15+ AWG tot.) for cables, 4S6 = 17 AWG tot. Think Alex on vacation(?) so time to tell.

 

9 hours ago, rb2013 said:

My theory is that the higher impedance from the small gauge wires used in CAT7/8 cables may be blocking low impedance leakages.

Like reasonable work theory of effect, we hope to see true cause someday soon. Thinking better then previous superiority of OE (original experimenter). Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, rb2013 said:

I'm also a big fan of vibration isolation...love my SR MIGs!

What is "SR MIG"? (why should I know acronym ?)

 

[rb2013]

1 hour ago, look&listen said:

 

Not understand thinking to not post link to close related USAM thread, but post link to ASR snake pit?

 

If I remember correctly ? UpTone use Belden #9418 (15+ AWG tot.) for cables, 4S6 = 17 AWG tot. Think Alex on vacation(?) so time to tell.

 

Like reasonable work theory of effect, we hope to see true cause someday soon. Thinking better then previous superiority of OE (original experimenter). Thanks!

 

What is "SR MIG"? (why should I know acronym ?)

 

Quote

Not understand thinking to not post link to close related USAM thread, but post link to ASR snake pit?

Well I have had my disagreements with Amir (on pretty much everything he states and believes) - and Alex and JS posts on his LPS-1 review were pure audio gold!   Worth reading - and Amir simply surrendered.  Although the great thing that came out of that debate - the shunting of the Meanwell SMPS.  As JS found this high impedance leakage issue regarding SMPS's - LPS's don't suffer from this problem.   And some capacitive coupling on the two LPS-1 Super Cap banks.   I do read it - but only to glean what useful information I can. And it paid off in spades squared with the path that led to the PoE DC discovery!

 

Quote

If I remember correctly ? UpTone use Belden #9418 (15+ AWG tot.) for cables, 4S6 = 17 AWG tot. Think Alex on vacation(?) so time to tell.

You might very well be right on the Belden vs Canare cable - I looked for a 18awg Canare microphone cable and could not find any.  Our discussion on my 233 page thread was many months ago.  It's just a very large thread and I didn't feel like spending a half hour sifting looking for it.  Alex when back from vacation (he mentioned that on my USAM thread) can clear that up.  

 

Quote

Like reasonable work theory of effect, we hope to see true cause someday soon. Thinking better then previous superiority of OE (original experimenter). Thanks!

Well it's all just guessing and supposition...JS will hopefully shine more light on this.  Originally John and Alex thought we were using active PoE - with DC to DC converters.  Not the passive we were actually using with no such isolation devices.  Shielding can't logically explain it - as I at least added the PoE DC Ethernet between the LPS DC cable and the LT3045.  That is something where before there was nothing!  Can't get a logically better shielded connection then nothing - even the best shielding will still have some remnant RFI/EMI getting through.  Adding PoE DC can not magically shield the existing LPS DC cable!

 

Quote

What is "SR MIG"? (why should I know acronym ?)

Sorry Synergistic Research MIG's (Mechanical Interface Grounding) devices - now in a 2.0 version with SR HFT added.

Cheers!

[paulkouhan]

Hi Robert, hi everyone,

I want to try these POE Dc cables. Wich one do you recommand  today ?

Is the belden still the best between your Rex and Lex ?

 

Can these Ethernet cable be any good in interconnects ? ( or spdif ?)

 

Thanks

David

 

[lmitche]

On 5/27/2018 at 11:20 PM, rb2013 said:

But after the last few days I have to scold my friend Larry for his treatment of a truly great friend to us all - Wushuliu

 

Larry this great fellow has been with us from HF days...he's not some random drop in troll.  You really treated him unfairly and in a rather bullying fashion.  Who are you to dictate he 'get along' that is kowtow to you?  Are you the thread boss?  This is not like you as you have been a gracious poster on my USAM ... kindly thanking me for turning you on to the LT3045's and ZeroZone Amb Sigma 11 LPS's.  What's up dude?

Hey Rob, the truth is Wushuliu and yourself have been bashing this thread for weeks on the USAM site. Likewise your bashing of CA and it's members has been happening for many years. If anyone is curious just look at the last three pages here for a sample:

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172&start=3450

 

After Wushiliu posted the same drivel here, I asked him to change his attitude or leave. I don't know how my offer of "let's get along" changed into a kowtowing experience, but evidently this has also been twisted into something bad.

 

Wushiliu chose a dramatic exit all on his own.  Likewise he can chose to come back to CA all on his own.  I have no special gatekeeping powers here.

 

I am not having fun. It was tedious and boring posting on your USAM site, and I regret doing so.  It is now painful to post here. Very sad.

 

One more thing, I am a proud Uptone Audio fanboy and it was a classy Uptone Audio polo shirt I was wearing at your site, not a T-shirt.

 

[sligolad]

Aw come on Limitche can you please let this go, we have been doing good so far and I have not seen any bashing of the thread.

Lets keep it civil and and we can do without asking people to go back to where they came from, maybe you have Mod rights here but I would like to keep the thread clean and I have kept quiet so far.

 

Hope we can move on and get back on track as we are seeing some good feedback, ideas and thoughts recently.?

 

[rb2013]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hey Rob, the truth is Wushuliu and yourself have been bashing this thread for weeks on the USAM site. Likewise your bashing of CA and it's members has been happening for many years. If anyone is curious just look at the last three pages here for a sample:

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172&start=3450

 

After Wushiliu posted the same drivel here, I asked him to change his attitude or leave. I don't know how my offer of "let's get along" changed into a kowtowing experience, but evidently this has also been twisted into something bad.

 

Wushiliu chose a dramatic exit all on his own.  Likewise he can chose to come back to CA all on his own.  I have no special gatekeeping powers here.

 

I am not having fun. It was tedious and boring posting on your USAM site, and I regret doing so.  It is now painful to post here. Very sad.

 

One more thing, I am a proud Uptone Audio fanboy and it was a classy Uptone Audio polo shirt I was wearing at your site, not a T-shirt.

 

Well Larry - what can I say?  I love and have promoted the Iso Regen on my thread.  It truly is a wonder audio product.  Didn't like the Regen or the LPS-1 - so I'm not entitled to my opinion?  I call them as I see them.  And the IR is a huge winner.

 

I posted that this thread initially was rather unfocused  - so?  Wushiliu tried to add some good info and did - certainly not 'drivel'!

In fact, that is rather derogatory term and a sign that maybe your attitude is the issue?  So you then feel you have the right to be arbiter to what 'attitude' people here are supposed to have?  That's a tell.

 

No one attacked you for your OT post on the Gotham star quad DC cable - when the thread is about PoE DC.  And they shouldn't that's useful info - so thanks for that.  

 

Now you say that posting on my USAM site was boring and you regret doing so...so who held a gun to your head  to do so, almost daily for months?  Shall I post here your numerous and gracious appreciation posts for learning about the LT3045 LDovr boards there and how they transformed your system?  You seemed to having fun then.   And the what like 5 Zero Zone Amb Sigma 11 LPS's you bought, after learning about them there.  You seemed to be having fun with those.  To the p;oint of posting about them here often and the excellent SQ upgrade they provided.  That sounds like fun to me.  None of those being Uptone products.  Sorry if you found my sarcasm and humor at USAM not to your taste.  This is a different forum - with a different culture.

 

Still there is no excusing your behavior towards Wushiliu - to the point that after being a member here since 2010 he choose to terminate it.  Is that your idea of 'fun'?  Come on let's let bygones be bygones and enjoy this hobby (tweeking and all and God knows I'm a tweeker!).  Man up, admit you were wrong, apologize and invite Wushiliu back.  He has much to add here.

 

That would be in the spirit of this community!

 

Cheers my friend!

[rb2013]

7 hours ago, paulkouhan said:

Hi Robert, hi everyone,

I want to try these POE Dc cables. Wich one do you recommand  today ?

Is the belden still the best between your Rex and Lex ?

 

Can these Ethernet cable be any good in interconnects ? ( or spdif ?)

 

Thanks

David

 

Hi David,

I would go cheap and easy on the PoE DC to start - maybe a couple of PoE passive injectors

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Set-Pairs-Power-Over-Ethernet-Passive-POE-Injector-Splitter-Adapter-Cable-Kit/282049940669?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

And the UGREEN or IBRA CAT 7 cable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable-CAT7-Advanced-10Gbps-600/263591408784?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Then get more exotic from there if you choose.

 

On the REX to LEX - you want to stay with a UTP unshielded CATa to preserve GI.  The BJC CAT6a is a great choice.

Cheers!

[paulkouhan]

ok thank you.

I left your USAM post on mars 2017 because I had fewer time to spend,

it was 66 pages then... now it is 233 pages !!???

I am happy to see that there has been a lot of improvements !

thanks for sharing that with us !

[rb2013]

7 minutes ago, paulkouhan said:

ok thank you.

I left your USAM post on mars 2017 because I had fewer time to spend,

it was 66 pages then... now it is 233 pages !!???

I am happy to see that there has been a lot of improvements !

thanks for sharing that with us !

Thanks for the kind words - I completely agree 233 page makes it hard to find things.  And it covered a lot of topics

Hopefully this thread can be a consolidated PoE DC summary and continuation.  This PoE DC thing is really too important to get lost in the shuffle.

 

Cheers!

[genjamon]

Well, I’ve converted all my DC cables (powering Ultrarendu, netgear switch, and centurylink router) to Supra Cat8 w/JSSG as described in this thread and have achieved a nice overall SQ boost. Before the Supra Cat8 stuff surfaced, I had ordered the PoE adapters. Given all the butt-hurt posts by Tubelover, etc, I’ve gone ahead and ordered an Ibra cable so I can compare their recommended PoE setup to Charles’s Supra Cat8 approach. I also just ordered my first LDover LT3045 board to play with. I know I’m playing catch up with some of this stuff, but looking forward to comparing with the Supra Cat8. 

[rb2013]

16 minutes ago, genjamon said:

Well, I’ve converted all my DC cables (powering Ultrarendu, netgear switch, and centurylink router) to Supra Cat8 w/JSSG as described in this thread and have achieved a nice overall SQ boost. Before the Supra Cat8 stuff surfaced, I had ordered the PoE adapters. Given all the butt-hurt posts by Tubelover, etc, I’ve gone ahead and ordered an Ibra cable so I can compare their recommended PoE setup to Charles’s Supra Cat8 approach. I also just ordered my first LDover LT3045 board to play with. I know I’m playing catch up with some of this stuff, but looking forward to comparing with the Supra Cat8. 

"butt-hurt" posts here - that's not a community friendly remark?.  I have like two.  And one was just a suggestion to someone just wanting to try this PoE DC thing to start cheap and simple.  Not everyone is a uber tweeker...for the record it's the UGREEN that had some better SQ aspects for me - not the IBRA.  Although I have to say the IBRA is the bass king so far.  Almost too much bass - and how can Maggies have too much bass!

 

It nice you have gotten a SQ lift from this PoE DC discovery.  I believe the LT3045 has some synergies with this PoE DC thing.

 

Anyway a comparison would be interesting - especially if you'd try the Supra before then after the JSSG treatment.

[genjamon]

Umm, I just ordered the Ibra that you just linked - just now. Why did you provide a link to the Ibra, when it’s really the Ugreen that you recommend? 

 

Also, I wasn’t referring so much to your posts here as the ones on USAM. 

[bit01]

I modified the PoE adapter cable to be able to utilize all the 8 wires for power (1,2,4,5: +ve, 3,6,7.8: -ve). This has improved the low end performance of the Ugreen CAT7 (3ft) cable. I find it to be the equal or better (perhaps more relaxed sound) than the bulk Supra CAT8 +JSSG (1ft).

 

The adapters I modified are these:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H7IF624/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The UGREEN

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QV1F1C4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thank you very much @rb2013 for this tip!

 

 

[Cornan]

13 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I modified the PoE adapter cable to be able to utilize all the 8 wires for power (1,2,4,5: +ve, 3,6,7.8: -ve). This has improved the low end performance of the Ugreen CAT7 (3ft) cable. I find it to be the equal or better (perhaps more relaxed sound) than the bulk Supra CAT8 +JSSG (1ft).

 

The adapters I modified are these:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H7IF624/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The UGREEN

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QV1F1C4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

 

 

 

Nice experiment @bit01! I did’nt see that coming! A great example what a community effort can bring to the table. So this suddenly seems like the capacitive coupling to the DC plugs (and perhaps EMI at the bare wire ends) is very important to these eyes! ?

I might just try the ferrite tape on the plug ends that I have been thinking about using for a long time on my ethernet (RJ45) and USB plugs.

[rb2013]

57 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I modified the PoE adapter cable to be able to utilize all the 8 wires for power (1,2,4,5: +ve, 3,6,7.8: -ve). This has improved the low end performance of the Ugreen CAT7 (3ft) cable. I find it to be the equal or better (perhaps more relaxed sound) than the bulk Supra CAT8 +JSSG (1ft).

 

The adapters I modified are these:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H7IF624/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The UGREEN

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QV1F1C4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thank you very much @rb2013 for this tip!

 

 

Thank you for the kind words - just ordered up a few.   Thanks for the pics of the mod

Cheers!

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice experiment @bit01! I did’nt see that coming! A great example what a community effort can bring to the table. So this suddenly seems like the capacitive coupling to the DC plugs (and perhaps EMI at the bare wire ends) is very important to these eyes! ?

I might just try the ferrite tape on the plug ends that I have been thinking about using for a long time on my ethernet (RJ45) and USB plugs.

Yes this is great community effort! I use this copper foil tape everywhere to deal with any lingering worries about exposed cable ends and plugs picking up EMI etc. Works a treat along with PTFE electric tape to make sure there is nothing exposed to short circuits...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016Y58TX4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[tapatrick]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:45 PM, rb2013 said:

I agree - the passive type of PoE injector is not the magic - but does allow for quick cable changes.  I've also had success in my office system using this Ethernet block connector and combining different cables.  Didn't have as much success in the main system.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rj45-adapter-ethernet-extension-lan-cable-cat7-6-5e-socket-female-8p8c-connector/282900310703?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=582516111260&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I think wushuliu was on to something with his post here on the differing gauges and twist tightness.  Smaller the gauge the tighter the twist possible.  The UGREEN uses only 26awg OFC and it's one of my favorite cables.

 

But what originally lead me to even try this - came from a post on Amir's ASR review of the LPS-1 and Alex's reply quoting JS regarding low impedance leakage blocking.  That Ethernet had this implicit in it's design.  The use of passive PoE injectors was just a design test to see if the CAT cable would even work.  And BOY did they ever!  But without the PoE Active low impedance leakage blocking!  

Alex's post (#112) on Amir's ASR review of the LPS-1 thread quoting John Swenson on Ethernet suppression of low impedance leakage - what the LPS-1/1.2 do.

Here's the link and quote:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-lps-1-linear-power-supply-review-and-measurements.1849/

 

So going back to this original idea of getting a LPS-1/1.2 type of low impedance leakage blocking  - in a active or semi-active PoE DC chain - would that provide even greater SQ benefits?  Surplant the purpose of the LPS1/1.2?  Use just an el-cheapo R-core LPS, a few LT3045s' with this now active PoE DC in between.

 

There are issues of DC to DC converter noise - the transformers on Ethernet's data lines do not work for PoE.  But that noise would be dealt with by a couple of in series LT3045's with their massive wide, high and ultra high freq PSRR.

 

This has not been explored yet here - but I have been running all kinds of experiments with fantastic promise!

Thanks Rob for explaining your detective work and how you came to discover the PoEs. I had followed some of this on and off but hadn't understood how you joined the dots. I got the UGreens and have been very impressed with the improvements. Now like others I am cutting off the ethernet plugs and joining 2 of the  pairs for + and 2 for -, then soldering to terminal plugs. Who would have guessed in 2018 this would have been the next major audio discovery!

Cheers  

 

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Yes this is great community effort! I use this copper foil tape everywhere to deal with any lingering worries about exposed cable ends and plugs picking up EMI etc. Works a treat along with PTFE electric tape to make sure there is nothing exposed to short circuits...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016Y58TX4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Great to see you around here Patrick! Thanks for the link. Not possible to order from Sweden, but I know where to find similar. Electrokit.com rules! ?

[tapatrick]

4 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Great to see you around here Patrick! Thanks for the link. Not possible to order from Sweden, but I know where to find similar. Electrokit.com rules! ?

Thanks Micael!

I try to keep an eye on developments when I can, also on your thread  ... Looks like you are having fun!

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks Micael!

I try to keep an eye on developments when I can, also on your thread  ... Looks like you are having fun!

 

I sure am! ?? More SPAGETTI than KISS for me, but that’s the way I like it! ?

Eagerly waiting for more info regarding your new chain! ?

[rb2013]

32 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks Rob for explaining your detective work and how you came to discover the PoEs. I had followed some of this on and off but hadn't understood how you joined the dots. I got the UGreens and have been very impressed with the improvements. Now like others I am cutting off the ethernet plugs and joining 2 of the  pairs for + and 2 for -, then soldering to terminal plugs. Who would have guessed in 2018 this would have been the next major audio discovery!

Cheers  

 

I may have to don the tweeker hat this weekend and cut open a few of those PoE injectors.

 

The UGREEN is unique in that it uses a smaller gauge OFC copper wire.  Smaller gauge allows for a tighter twist.  The shielding is no where near the Amazon Basic or the Supra CAT 8.  But I really don't think shielding is the magic sauce.

 

Boy you got that right - what an unexpected way to get better SQ!  I don't know about others - but in my system the improvement with adding the PoE DC has been fairly substantial - not incremental.

 

We just need some clever audio company to make a really high quality PoE injector using all the pairs for power...Ghent Audio are you listening?

Cheers Friend!

[rb2013]

3 hours ago, genjamon said:

Umm, I just ordered the Ibra that you just linked - just now. Why did you provide a link to the Ibra, when it’s really the Ugreen that you recommend? 

 

Also, I wasn’t referring so much to your posts here as the ones on USAM. 

Fair enough!  But you know that USAM thread broke the news on many great audio finds...PoE DC being just one of them. 

 

Funny since I closed the thread the view count went from 444,000 to over 453,000 - about 9,000 in what 10 days?  Somebody is getting some kind of benefit (maybe a few laughs) from the "butt-hurt" posts there.  And my friend Alex (@Superdad) has been a frequent and welcome guest there since it started - I appreciated his participation and learned much from him, even if we didn't always agree.

 

As for the IBRA - some folks prefer it to the UGREEN -and it certainly rocks the bass.  So I posted the link to that one.  But at $6 each the cost to have both is minimal.

 

[tapatrick]

44 minutes ago, rb2013 said:

I may have to don the tweeker hat this weekend and cut open a few of those PoE injectors.

 

The UGREEN is unique in that it uses a smaller gauge OFC copper wire.  Smaller gauge allows for a tighter twist.  The shielding is no where near the Amazon Basic or the Supra CAT 8.  But I really don't think shielding is the magic sauce.

 

Boy you got that right - what an unexpected way to get better SQ!  I don't know about others - but in my system the improvement with adding the PoE DC has been fairly substantial - not incremental.

 

We just need some clever audio company to make a really high quality PoE injector using all the pairs for power...Ghent Audio are you listening?

Cheers Friend!

Well I owe you for your ongoing sharing of your discoveries!.. Good to see you here.

 

My system is not the same as yours (and some things I haven't agreed with you like streaming for instance, which for me is magic,. I think streaming setups in different locations/countries/cabling and powering is another territory to be  explored). BUT what I've picked up from you, the LT304s, these PoEs, the modded teradak DC30, etc has been very much appreciated.  

 

When I think about how much each of us partaking, sharing and reading these forums, then spending our hard earned cash building each of our systems, tweaking, isolating, grounding, clean powering, working through the frustrations and successes, testing and trying - looking for the holy grail, cooking and nurturing our tastes and our equipment, listening then restlessly looking for that which we haven't found yet like crazy people..

 

THEN it all comes together and the music rises in the room like magic, floating from the speakers, 3D and immersive in the sweet music that moves us. Then its worth it all. I thank you for your contribution to my and many others enjoyment which hasn't meant spending $1000s. I don't know what this PoEs can be doing, its a real mystery and beyond my knowledge level, but they somehow along with all the other things I have done and worked on optimising - they add a secret sauce to my system that nudges the music experinece into bliss.

 

Not sure they would necessarily work this way for everyone on their own but over the past year or so we are getting close, through good folks like you to finding out some key yet simple facts that when put together FOR A FEW $s are leading to real breakthroughs in digital audio. 

 

Cheers Rob

 

PS, yes I bet a few audio companies are paying close attention to threads like this...

 

[tapatrick]

50 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I sure am! ?? More SPAGETTI than KISS for me, but that’s the way I like it! ?

Eagerly waiting for more info regarding your new chain! ?

Ha! 

Okay I will post an update of my new chain on your thread soon. I am just putting the finishing touches to it, and it has been full of hiccups and set backs but really sounding very magical now. I can't wait to get home to immerse myself in the music these days!

[austinpop]

So 2 questions and a comment.

1. Is this the new home of the monster USAM thread? I thought this was specifically about the use of POE adapters and Cat 7/Cat 8 ethernet cables, and specifically for the  Uptone products (ISO-R and LPS-1/1.2/JS-2).
2. Because if it is to be the new monster thread, @Superdad - I assume you have some views about it living in your sponsored area? ? 

My comment - knock off the Larry-bashing. @lmitche has contributed a heck of a lot more to CA than the individual who picked up his toys and left in a huff.