ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

 

In the end having a much larger gauge @ 14 AWG turned out to be one of the determinant factors that really mattered

 

Having briefly tried the Star Quad concept,  I prefer to use a short as possible length of 2 core 7.5A mains cable, although it is  often difficult to terminate in some plugs, whose opening may need enlarging a little, and possibly need a small piece of Heat Shrink cable at the end as well.

Sometimes with higher current loads, the resistance of the cable when used with a very low output impedance PSU is more important. 

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

you're on fire today !!

 

They used to burn Witches too !

[sandyk]

19 hours ago, marce said:

Slap the cable through a ferrite and you have a common mode choke...

 Marc

 Please check your PMs

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, Quadman said:

LT3045 boards after LPSU's in series and acting as step down devices really do make a positive change in the sound.

 

Last night was my second session of the full cat 8 direct connect DC power cable set up.  By the time I sat to listen the cables had 54 hours under power.  Nothin subtle about this session whereas the first night I really enjoyed the sound but it wasn't until 1:30 AM when I realized what these cables were doing different from the cat 7/custom PoE I was using until then.  Nope this was as subtle as a jackhammer wow, the transformation with over 50 hours with power was simply amazing.  No mistaking anything, this simply was the best sound I have ever heard.  The whole stage starts 3 feet behind my speakers and then just goes back as far and as wide as you can imagine, never have I heard the depth and width that I got last night from my system/room.  The solidity and realness of the images so there so palpable, proper sized, not big headed, they had body and real dimension to them, harmonics and tonality again the best I have had.  The body of wood instruments had the best attack of the string and fullness of the instruments body that I have heard.  Second harmonics of these and the piano's sound board left my jaw agape.

 

I got into a 2 hour section of the evening playing classical, violin concerto's, that truly reminded my of my time in Minnesota sitting in center row 12 listening to Osmo Vanska leading the orchestra.  The width, depth, separation of the orchestra coupled with the magic tonality of the violins just took my breath away.  Even the softest woodwind passages had magic and clarity.  I had no walls, no speakers just glorious sound filling my room.  It was the most lifelike sound I have heard from any system.  Is there a limit to how good this can get?

 

Obviously these cables take some time to burn in and settle down, I don't know if the improvement has peaked or will it continue to improve as the hours roll up.  I can't wait until Friday evening to find out.

Does the soundstage also extend to the listening position, and even behind it with suitable material  ?

A good test for this is "Moth to a Flame-Olivia Newton John" where a simulated Moth does an anti clockwise sweep of the whole room if your gear is good enough.

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, Quadman said:

Normal 2 channel recordings tho everything is behind the plane of the speakers.

 

 That is NOT normal, which is why I asked the question !

Normally the sound will at least come from in line with, or a little in front of the speakers.

A few good test recordings are Queen-Another One Bites the Dust, The Eagles-Hotel California(24/96 preferably) , and The track  Ascent, Zarathustra from  Time Warp-Erich Kunzel, which with a good system can fill most of the listening area in FRONT of the speakers. The very best recordings with plenty of ambience can see the sound extend both behind the speakers, and even as far as a little behind the listening position in a few. 

They can also have width exceeding the distance between the speakers in a well set up listening area.

[sandyk]

11 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Yes. Unless the recording specifically has used phase manipulation to create an 'artificial' effect, then the soundstage elements remain resolutely behind the plane of the speakers - at all times, any images float completely free of the speakers, to as far back as the acoustic data places them.

 Many DIY Audio members criticised the Douglas Self very low distortion amplifier designs because the image was fixed mainly between the speakers, and rarely extended either side of them.

 The OP is using LT3045 low noise voltage regulators in series . Unless they are preceded by typical larger value filter capacitors they will increase the apparent HF detail due to the low value and type of capacitors used at their input and output. ( Tantalum and ceramic usually), causing much larger soundstages and added HF detail ,which users of Spotify etc. seem to like because it normally lacks much soundstage and is apparently a little HF deficient.

That's why some members use a couple in series, despite the noise level already being VERY low.

They are manipulating phase information by doing this .

 

 See also  https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/04/08/how-to-set-up-your-hi-fi-speakers/

 They also show how to position the speakers for more realistic Home Cinema.

 

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, Quadman said:

For most recordings all the best systems I have heard the sound stage is at or behind the plane of the speakers

 But not starting at 3 feet behind the speakers , and going further back.

In many rooms the speakers will not even be 3 feet from the rear walls and such a system will compress the soundstage.

In fact, my old DCM QED 1A speaker's manufacturer recommends that they be positioned 3 feet in front of the rear walls for the best and smoothest low end response.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

When a system is working well, the amount of HF is irrelevant

Frank

 Perhaps in your system, but not in most other people's systems.

 Even the bipolar capacitor degradation over the years in the Crossovers to the Tweeters in the speakers causes a noticeable degradation compared to when new.  You just become accustomed to the gradual degradation.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, Quadman said:

I am sorry my system does not meet your high expectations of audio payback.  In my description on my profile page and back with my first impressions of full cat 8 cable, I state my speakers are 8.5 ft into the room.  The stage here, like my friends $500K system in MN whose speakers are 10.5ft into the room; both systems, the stage starts behind the speaker plane and extends way back and way out to the sides, He has some reel to reel tapes with phase manipulation and his whole huge room fills with sound when he plays those.

Quadman

 I don't doubt that it sounds great to you, but I have previously been to MANY HiFi shows, including an overnight trip from Sydney to Melbourne for one, as well as listened to some VERY expensive systems of some friends at regular GTGs, including  that of a highly experienced E.E.  , and I have never heard any of their systems where the sound starts around 3 feet  behind the speakers and extends further back.

 Personally,   I would prefer the sound of say, a solo vocalist, to sound closer to the listening position, not well behind the speakers, with perhaps the backing musicians further back.

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, totoxio said:

@Boomboy I plug POE adapter directly into the power supply, then 2 m Ugreen, then POE end, then LT3045 board and finally 30 cm Ghent Canare 4S6 cable.

 

Maybe you can get some RJ45 couplers like this, to combine different lengths:

 

https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Coupler-Ethernet-Extender-Adapter/dp/B016B13UDK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1528691507&sr=8-4&keywords=ugreen+coupler

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Whatever happened to the notion that the Power Supply, for lowest impedance, should be kept as close to the devices to be powered ?

 It's not always just about reducing the PSU noise and A.C. mains  ripple , it's often also about the lowest possible resistance Earth ( 0 volts) reference, which also helps to ensure minimal RF/EMI pickup.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, totoxio said:

@sandyk I completely understand that. How can added cable make my system sound better? I was skeptical but I tried just because it was cheap to try, and the results are very noticeable. And the expectation bias for something so inexpensive was also very low. What can I say? I don't know the reason why this is making my system sound better, but it is.

 

 

 I have already explained this elsewhere several times.

Unless you use additional larger value capacitors at the input of the LT3045 PSU PCB, such as you would when using it after a bridge rectifier in a PSU, you will exaggerate HF detail.

Put 2 in series and you will get a further HF detail increase, and possibly at the expense of a more overall balanced sound.

 Low end impact and lower mid range warmth may suffer unless you use extra capacitance, due to the LT3045 PCBs only using low value Tantalum or ceramic capacitors at their input.   But, if your system is lacking in  the HF detail area you may gain an apparent increase in the size of the soundstage and HF detail.

Micael  loves putting a couple in series because it appears to improve what appears to be lacklustre performance from  Spotify etc..

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Boomboy said:

Ive got a 4 pk of kemet a750 coming for the LT board . Are these the type you mean @sandyk ? I dont want to loose my deep end sound as i like it .

 What is their capacitance value ?  They have a very low ESR  (Effective Series Resistance), so may not help much with adding warmth again.

 You can  improve their tonal performance by putting an electrolytic  capacitor of 1,000uF or perhaps 2,200uF of a suitable voltage rating  in parallel with their input.

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Trust me. You won’t! Just try it and see how you like it. I can almost guarantee that you’ll like them with the LT3045. In single or series.

 Micael

 Not everybody uses ONLY  a HF detail challenged streaming service !!!

 Your solution may work well with Spotify for you, but may NOT be suitable for those who don't rely just on streamed services.

 Many other members have already verified that the LT3045 based PCBs benefit from the use of a larger value NORMAL type electrolytic capacitor in parallel with their input.

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Remember that this is a very simple and cheap tweak.

 As is putting a larger value electrolytic capacitor in parallel with their input.

If you need additional lower midrange warmth try using something like the "Elna for Audio"  capacitors across their input.

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

So far I actually like the PANASONIC FC series Type A aluminium electrolytic caps 560uF better (and much cheaper) than Elna Silsmic II 1000uF together with the Kemet A750

 

 I extensively use Panasonic FC capacitors which have a fairly low ESR, but not as low as the Panasonic FM. The Panasonic FC is a good all round type of capacitor.

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, totoxio said:

 

Thank you @sandyk. The ldovr LT3045 (stock) was already in my system and as you say, it added detail. Honestly, I don't think it was because of increased HF but because of decreased noise floor. The POE+CAT7 added bottom end tightness, instrument separation, and more expansive soundstage but it made the highs a bit darker, in a musical way, more enjoyable. Not sure how to explain it... Darker but with increased resolution, is that possible?

 

I must admit that this POE thing could be creating some coloration or distortion that is balancing my system. And that could be one of the reasons why everybody gets different results and there seems to be no consensus yet.

 

Cheers. 

 

The more expansive soundstage IS due to extra HF detail, and you can go too far doing this, with the audio becoming overly detailed and fatiguing to listen to for longer periods. You may even  notice a small increase in sibilance with some recordings.

If you had Tone Controls on a preamp for example, and turned up the treble a bit you are also likely to get this larger soundstage effect.

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, bit01 said:

@marce- I wish I could answer that with some scientific explanation, but in truth- I don't know. The effect is easy to hear though n my setup. I am using the dc cable between the Uptone LPS-1.2 and the Sonore UltraRendu which feeds a DAC. I can only speculate that there is some residual ac leakage or EMI riding on the DC that could reach the DAC or that the current consumption is  fluctuating in some way such that the cable geometry/design comes into play.

 

The power supply should ALWAYS be as close as possible to the device to be powered as  possible

 I usually use as short as possible leads made from a surplus 7.5A mains cable.

[sandyk]

15 minutes ago, mansr said:

I think we both know the answer to that.

 

 Like you both know the answer to Mani's reports ?

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Didn't realize Mani heard differences due to a DC cable 

 I didn't say that he did.

Both Mansr and Marce have a history of ridiculing numerous confirming reports on this and other subjects in other areas of the forum, even when a high profile E.E. says similar.

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Nice report! Well done. Just curious, have you tried it with an ISO Regen?

 

 Lotsa luck trying to terminate that cable into 5.5  x 2.1mm plug !

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, marce said:

So provide some explanation of how a DC cable can have such an effect on the sound quality.... an effect that I would have to use a DSP to mimic.

 

7 hours ago, marce said:

So provide some explanation of how a DC cable can have such an effect on the sound quality.... an effect that I would have to use a DSP to mimic.

Marc

 Due to time differences, you will now have seen some reports and links from others to discussions in this area.

 BTW, are you set up to receive PMs ?

 I have sent you a couple recently with no response.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

I've done it several times now. I have to drill out the metal plug sleeve to 9mm. Shrink wrap makes the finished product acceptable.

 Hi Larry

 For reliability reasons, I fitted 3pin Mini XLR plugs and sockets to the PSU and cable powering my USB Regen.

 I had to do virtually the same as you have done to take the thicker 7.5A mains cable offcuts.

 I kept having trouble with unreliable DC 5.5 x 2.1mm plugs and sockets .

 

Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

Regarding DC cables, I don’t like those 2.1/2.5 mm plugs at all desire thatvbeing some type of standard. I greatly prefer a plug like one of the various round multipronged with a screw outer shield.

 I find the 2.1/2.5mm plugs and sockets unreliable for repeated  insertions.

Wherever possible I now use 3 pin Mini XLR instead.

 They lock in, and the best part for me is that I can separately obtain 2 of each type for Au $4 on ebay. (Au.$8)

This includes postage !

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

What is USPC A>B?

 

Thank you.

 

Perhaps members should refrain from using abbreviations like these in the General area of the forum, as the vast majority of members and visitors won't have a clue what they are talking about. Even infrequent visitors to other sections of the forum easily lose track of them too. 

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

Positive line added 25watt 10ohm Vishap padding resistor to lower output to match HD800(last photo is Vishay w/o insulation covet

 

Don't forget that for the most balanced sound the HD800 should be driven from a source impedance of 120 ohms .