ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[BigGuy]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Lotsa luck trying to terminate that cable into 5.5  x 2.1mm plug !

Been playing around with various 5.5 x 2.1mm  plugs, some with barrels like Oyaide and others just the plug, with AWGs thicker than bell wire.  If not too large, butt splice connectors can be used if they are squashed to fit the tabs and the tabs may need to be trimmed.  Playing off that idea I just bought some thin wall (1/32") copper tubing with IDs of 1/8 and 3/16" to try which hopefully will be easier to make fit over the tabs.  Depending on proximity of + and -, may need to insulate with Teflon (PTFE) plumbing tape, shrink tubing or Teflon spaghetti tubing which has been split for installation.

[BigGuy]

7 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I am using the plugs with the screw terminals for the evaluation.

Not sure if you are up to speed but the screw-type terminal plugs are wired internally with ~30AWG wire which has very low amperage rating.

[BigGuy]

59 minutes ago, totoxio said:

 

I use these ones:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079RBL339/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

They are supposed to have a better internal wiring. (Up to 5A according to the second picture)

I bought the Chanzon that you linked and it was the one I dissected to check under the hood...and found the 30AWB wire between the screws and plug.

[BigGuy]

58 minutes ago, mozes said:

I am using these plugs. Very good build quality and not expensive like Oyaide

https://www.mouser.ca/access/?pn=502-762&sn=Switchcraft&utm_source=mouseriphoneapp&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=502-762&utm_content=Switchcraft

 

Did you by chance note is they also have the mating female connector that would be the other end of a JSGT?

[BigGuy]

Can someone, perhaps John, please explain again the working theories behind JSSG and JSGT.

 

I have been reading quite a lot (dangerous in itself) about generation and shielding of EMI and RFI and it seems like JSSG might be acting like a quasi Faraday cage.  The difference I see is that a Faraday cage, IIUC, is always grounded.  Rather than a wire or another shield (with insulating layer) attached to both ends of the first layer of post added shielding, would it not be better to attach that wire to a ground?

[BigGuy]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

A Faraday cage doesn't need to be grounded.

Thanks for the info, mansr.  Guess I did not read enough!?  ?

[BigGuy]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Here is the post where I covered shielding:

 

It IS like a Faraday cage, that is the whole idea, making a cable behave like a Faraday cage. Read the details in the post.

 

The other is a way to shunt high impedance leakage (note NOT high FREQUENCY, this leakage  is actually line frequency related) generated by SMPS. In my studies into leakage I found that SMPS generate some very high impedance leakage that is very hard to block, it will go all over the place because the impedance is so high. BUT it is easy to shunt to ground (actually the safety ground in house wiring, EARTH connection not actually necessary). It is a very simple concept, connect the negative output of the SMPS to the safety ground and the high impedance leakage is shunted around your system. I posted some simple adapters to do this with common SMPS . This is a big issue for computer audio since most computer systems, networking equipment etc use SMPS. 

 

BTW the traditional low impedance leakage is still there on both SMPS and linear supplies, but there are ways to deal with that.

 

John S.

 

Thank you for the "reprise", John, and the links to previous discussion.

 

IIRC, there has been prior discussion of a "snubber" resistor/capacitor circuit for power supplies(?).  I happened  to be reading (again) and came across this article with a reference (page 4) to "X2Y" capacitors and thought it might application to some of what people are doing...

<http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-070.pdf>

 

I also found this article re shielded cables with a reference (slide 13) to an "absolutely screening technique" which I found particulaly easy to understand  ?

<http://www.elmac.co.uk/Papers.html>

 

[BigGuy]

Planning on buying some muMetal braided shield and foil to try combination with copper braid.

 

In the process of exploring the site, found this resource...

 

<http://www.magnetic-shield.com/faqs-all-about-shielding.html>

 

In the pdf "Magnetic Shield Realities", opening paragraph makes recs regarding open ended shields...

 

http://www.magnetic-shield.com/pdf/magnetic_shielding_realities.pdf

 

[BigGuy]

Please bear with me as I try to better understand the JSSG(360).

 

I DO understand that a Faraday cage is a 6-sided box or otherwise fully enclosed volume, e.g., cylinder with ends, that does not need to be grounded to be functional.

 

When I queried JohnS about the JSSG(360) being a quasi Faraday cage, he politely indicated yes but I surmise that would be true only if the shield extended a very long  (infinite?) distance from either end of the shield.  I know JohnS also said that the insulated wire or second shield with insulator provide a path for electrons to move within the shield.

I would propose that the JSSG360 does comprise a Faraday shield (thinking of it as thermos bottle of sorts) but that what is "protected" is the insulating material between them.

Would there be value to having a pigtail attached to the shield(s) whose other end is connected to GND pin of an AC plug and subsequently plugged into a grounded outlet?

 

I have EB Fowler's research paper on "Superscreened Cables" and while the discussion of impedance is way over my head, in all cases the screens are attached to the plugs.  Like other papers on shielding, he does conclude that a construction comprised of 2 braided shields with muMetal foil between them and no insulator layer other than that on the conductors themselves performs the best at all frequencies.  A construction of 3 copper braids with 2 layers of muMetal foil is even better.  He also concludes that the connectors themselves also need to be shielded.

 

I am a SOBjectivist by nature...I believe in my ears and respect the ears of those who post hear/here BUT not having an explanation that somewhat assuages my engineering (Chemical) background makes me cry!  ? 

 

I am planning to post treat a double headed USB cable and scratch build a shielded DC cable with quadcore at a minimum and something like the Gotham at the the other end of the spectrum.  I am hoping to use "best practices" rather than doing extensive experimentation as others have undertaken.

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

the thermos bottle quote is a bit confused - not analogous to a Faraday cage really

 

 

IF a thermos is a double cylinder of glass, etc., I  believe it is a good approximation of two layers of braid connected to each other separated by a insulating layer in the context of our discussions, IMHO.  A true thermos is two cylindrical layers of glass closed at the end with a evacuated layer in between.

[BigGuy]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I kinda liked the thermos bottle simularity to JSSG360! ? Even if a thermos bottles of course is a totally different thing I still wonder if a JSSG360 is actually best used on both +Ve and -Ve to protect the stabillity inside the wires due to capasitive coupling between the two plus protect it from outside RFI/EMI. I also wonder how much the temerature inside the DC cable needs to be controlled? There are other interesting thermo foil solutions around that might give ideas to why the JSSG360 seems more effective than JSSG according to others. ?

Just one man's opinion but if we know that an open-ended braided shield will act as a Faraday cage unless, as <mansr> has suggested, the cable is on the order of 12 inches in diameter...

...AND we accept Fowler's "superscreened" cable design as being 2 layers of copper braid with a layer of muMetal foil between, then that should work very well.  (NOTE: Fowler does indicate that 3 layers of braid alternated with 2 layers of muMetal foil would yield a "hyper", my word, screened cable.)  The difficult part of Fowler's construction is leaving the gap between the outer surface of the inner braid and the inner surface of the foil without special equipment.

I am going to post treat some cable(s) with this construction tho' I am not quite sure how I can manually creat the gap which according to Fowler greatly changes the inductance and improves screening performance.

 

The other considerable concern is whether  the final construction will take a bend!?

[BigGuy]

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I could’nt wait to try out my idea with the wires twisted around the middle of Kemet A750 legs and lower part of the legs inserted into the DC screw terminal DC plug instead if squeezing the Kemet legs inside the plug together with the wires. Common sence tells you that that connection cannot be perfect. To make it a ever greater task I decided to use only the silver plated OCC copper wires. No Acoustic Revive Tripple CCC copper wire and only one Kemet at the output.

 

 

Wow! This is by far the best ”here-with-me-inside-my-room-feeling” I have ever heard in my setup. A really crazy presence and air! Bass is awesome! Treble is awesome! Dynamics in lows, mids and hights are tremendous! Voices and guitars are putting me on a spell. Impossible to change track ones you’ve started to listen to any track. Fibers, 3D, 4D music glow and everything else is almost impeccable IMO. Fuck shielding. It is capacitors that separates -Ve to +Ve that you REALLY want if you trust me (Kemets or other brands)!???

 

Remember that this is just the beginning! The connection between the wire and Kemets legs is just crazy bad as you can see on the pictures. Still it give me this awesome result. Soldering joints will likely improve the result. The Kemet is just in single. One at each end of the cable will likely be much better IME (I have tried). I have 9 Kemet’s in my setup right now (but will order more tonight). I can only imagine how much they will improve thing further with this mod. Truly isolating the DC cable path. Joy! ??

Do we have a theory as to why the addition of a Kemet, etc., across the v+ & v -  could have such an effect?

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice! My only concern with shielding in this concept is that shielding degrades SQ IME. Sometimes shielding is a must, but is it really needed in an audiophile setup? Sorry, but I think not! Going after MuMetal is not the key to better SQ in the audiophile world. Air/distance and isolation is the key if you ask me, but do ask others! ?

A bit ago I was on the page with starquad construction being the way to go for DC power cords. 

Coming up fast is a parallel construction with an air gap between v+ and v-.

Do we know how close the 4 wires need to be (how tight a twist) for the starquad to be effective for noise cancellation?

Alternatively how loose can the twist/braid be to perhaps marry the benefits?

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Remember to solder the wire to the middle of the Kemet legs and the low end legs of the Kemet legs to the Oyiade plugs. Otherwise you’ve missed the point. Of course use all four Kemet’s. They’ll improve SQ almost anywhere IME. LPS-1.2 is great, but LS-HPULN is even better in most spots IME.

Unless I am missing something, the Kemet would be in parallel regardless of where on the cap legs the wire and Oyaide tabs are attached.

Please repeat what Kemet "colors" go to v+ and v-.

[BigGuy]

Is there any value added to putting foamed FEP around a squadcore construction?

[BigGuy]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I did’nt know what FEP was before I looked it up. I still don’t know what a squadcore is? ?

A new handle for you guys!   ?

[BigGuy]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I know I know! I was just joking. I understood the squarecore thing instantly but could’nt help myself! ?

All seriousness aside, I thought this thread needed some comic relief...

You're welcome!

...but what about the foamed teflon?

[BigGuy]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

You where right! ?

 

I like teflon on cables but hate to peel teflon off the wire on thin gauge wires. My next experimental cable will actually be a silver plated 28 awg wire with teflon tubing to see if less gauge makes a difference or not with the Kemet’s inline. I have used this cable for grounding purposes with great results just like the Vanguard 1mm wire (which also got teflon tubing BTW)

 

However, I am not sure what the difference is between normal teflon and foamed teflon? Air injection? If that is the case it seems like a good idea, especially since Supra DAC uses this teqnique (but not with teflon) and that cable is really refind in the treble area IMO. Do you have a link to where I can buy foamed teflon BTW?

Source of the foamed Teflon that I found is <https://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html>

Scroll down to " .99999 UniCrystal™ OCC SILVER Wire and HyperFlex™ Tubing ".

ID is 3mm and OD is 6mm, IIRC.

With a dielectric constant of 1.3 it is very close to vacuum with 1.0

 

re the Kemet caps, was 560uf chosen for a particular reason particularly since they do come in various flavors?

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks! ? Since I will solder them onto the actual DC cable plug terminalI guess that´s close enough? Any specific value that I should choose for for example 12VDC/1,5A (Brooklyn DAC)?

As a follow up to get my ducks in a row...

 

Why the choice of 560uf for the Kemet?     (suggested is 16V with lower ESR of 13mOhm vs 25V with 15mOhm)

Value for XR7 ceramic caps?

Kemet or XR7 better at output of power supply?

Is capacitor worthwhile addition for all DC supplies...SMPS, LPS, Battery?

[BigGuy]

8 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I answered this question to you here:

I assume the other questions was for @mansr and @marce right?

 

My apologies for missing the cap value explanation!  I saw the Panasonic mention but missed the connection with LS-HUPLN.

 

Whoever wants to wade in...  I am on steep part of learning curve.

[BigGuy]

3 hours ago, rah50 said:

FYI, for those not wanting to DIY cables, and those still believing in shielding, Ghent just announced: 

DC-GAC4 Gotham GAC-4/1 11301 UltraPro Star Quad DC(JSSG360) Cable

 

 

FWIW, Gotham Audio has also added a new horse to the race by announcing the GPC 3x1.5mmsq'd Power Cable (85015) which may be of interest to group.

[BigGuy]

OK, I get using a Kemet at the DCout and, maybe, the DCin but aren't the two Kemets at either end of the wires connecting the 3045 to the Oyaide the same as two caps in parallel, i.e., equivalent electronically to one just with twice the capacitance?

[BigGuy]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I does’nt work like that with capacitors in series. The total circuit capacitance of any number of capacitors connected together in series will always be less than the value of the smallest capacitor in the series.

Then I am missing something...

 

If the leads of one Kemet are connected to V+ and V- at the target end of the wires connecting the regulator to the barrel connector AND the equivalent leads of the second Kemet are also connected to the V+ and V- at the other ends of the wires, is that not parallel?

 

Is this not how the Kemets are wired...

https://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

[BigGuy]

I found these 2 articles on PS filtering but discussion bit (OK, a lot) over my head...

 

http://www.skillbank.co.uk/psu/smoothing.htm

 

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/21686/whats-the-purpose-of-two-capacitors-in-parallel

 

Looks a bit more complicated than just putting in a cap but maybe there is a value that covers a multitude of applications given that we are generally dealing with low V and A?!

[BigGuy]

3 minutes ago, mansr said:

That's just another way of saying that it sucks. For $2000 one really should be able to expect better.

Having heard the original Brooklyn with an sBooster LPS against the original Manhattan, I can say that the Brooklyn came very close in SQ.

Given the proclivity of SOME people to choose and tweak power supplies ?, IMO Mytek made a good marketing decision giving users a great as-is DAC which could be enhanced to their individual threshold of pain.