ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[lmitche]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:23 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The only way to do a passive POE without transformers is two pairs for data and two pairs for power, thus limiting the Ethernet part to 100Mb. I know you are not using the Ethernet part, but is it rated at only up to 100Mb?

 

If there really are no transformers involved then this really is just getting something similar to star quad cable.

 

On the cable front, some cables use 24AWG and some use 23AWG wires. It MAY be that the 23AWG ones sound better. The higher CAT numbers have tighter tolerances on the wire geometry, I'm not sure this could have anything to do with a DC cable though.

 

John S.

John, yes these Poe adapters support 100 mbps only. That is because two of the four pairs are used for power.

 

Here is a diagram that has been confirmed with my Multimeter.

 

 

My guess is that the benefit comes from the Ibra Ethernet cable construction which is rather like the JSSG design with dual layers of foil shielding.

 

The Poe splitters don't look large enough to contain a transformer. Perhaps we should cut one apart?

 

Larry

[lmitche]

Way cool! Many thanks for the picture. It’s just like I suspected. Yes indeed I’ll cut open the Ibra cable in the am and solder some connectors at each end. I am also curious to learn how the shielding is terminated.

[lmitche]

Ok so an IBRA cable was dissected. Here is a picture:

 

 

The foil around each twisted pair is encased a stranded metal sheathing. Using the multimeter, continuity is maintained throughout the foil and metal sheathing to the gold tabs on the side of the Ethernet plugs.

 

So now we know that the mechanism delivering a SQ increase here is largely the cable shielding, not the POE splitters.

[lmitche]

20 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

Just so I understand: you jury rig a standard power supply connector to a POE (std to ethernet convertor) and on the other end do the opposite and lo and behold you  have a high performance power supply feed. Is this correct?

What do you mean by jury rig and "lo and behold"?

[lmitche]

15 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

I am not degrading the tweak just trying to understand. Once I understand I will try on all my power supplies. I guess jury rig does sound pejorative but I meant once you hook up the power supply feed to route through an ethernet cable (via the POE's) you get clean power at the other end.

Based on the POE splitter breakdown pictures above, the splitter delivers zero SQ benefit and just connects the Ethernet cable to the DC plugs. For someone without DIY skills, this is a good and cheap way to obtain the benefits of shielded DC cabling.

 

Nevertheless, this also means that in theory one can make a DC cable just by adding DC plugs and connectors directly to the Ibra shielded cable with the Ethernet plugs removed in a starquad, or double star quad, type of way.

 

I'm not getting the "wow" impact to SQ here, but I am already using heavily shielded cabling already, and wouldn't expect to hear an improvement but I certainly don't hear any degradation either.

[lmitche]

We should probably be careful about current limits with the 26 awg Ibra cable and other cat 7 solutions. The POE splitter puts current on 2 26 awg conductors on each side, for an effective awg of 23. That yields a max current of 0.729 amps according to the following table.

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

That may explain why my Netgear switch is flakey when powered with the Ibra cable and POE splitters. However there is more than enough current for an ISO Regen.

[lmitche]

Rob , aka Tubelover, at usaaudiomart has found a mistake in my use of the current capacity by wire gauge table above. I will correct this and repost here later in the day.

 

Larry

 

 

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rob , aka Tubelover, at usaaudiomart has found a mistake in my use of the current capacity by wire gauge table above. I will correct this and repost here later in the day.

 

Larry

 

 

After more research it appears the Ibra cable with 2 26 awg conductors at a length of 1 meter conductors is safe for at least 1 amp of current.

[lmitche]

38 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Oh, sorry, thought I did way up. Returned the IBRA and accidentally wrecked the poE adapter. Then thought why not just the cable to dc barrel connector. I like to work with what I have on hand. Just tinned the leads of another monoprice and better yet. Tighter bass. Will change subtly as it burns in. When the LT3405 gets here I’ll just do a dc connector straight in to the LPS-1 on one side and Cat 7/8 cable out the other to the microRendu. 

Charles, what sounds better, 4 conductors in star quad or 8 conductors in dual star quad?

[lmitche]

Great to see the commmunity here pull together and get to the heart of this phenomenon through critical thinking and shared experience.

 

Really terrific!

 

Larry

 

 

[lmitche]

Here is a cable I’ve been experimenting with for a few months.  Tough to work but sounds great! It’s called Gotham Audio GAC 4 Ultra Pro Quad.

 

[lmitche]

34 minutes ago, pas said:

I use the Gotham GAC 4/1 for interconnects, terrific cables.

You can do JSSG with this cable by joining the inner and outer shields together at the endpoints, however care needs to be taken to avoid contact with the connectors.

 

This is not twisted pair, so I've ordered 5 meters of Supra Cat 8 to compare the two.

 

Ugh, it never stops!

[lmitche]

10 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

1,8 and their white twins (dotted lines, 1,7) to +, and 4,6 (3,5) to -. I’m sure there’s other ways to do it; no idea if it would sound different, or by how much. I just like to remember what’s hot and what’s cool by color. One meter total. 

 

Sounds so good. Dangerous having a Supra distributor in the neighborhood...

Charles many thanks for the detailed explanation.  How did you deal with the foil shielding at the endpoints?

[lmitche]

Hi all,

 

Well I converted most DC cables here to the Gotham Audio cable and found a way to eliminate a bunch of connectors between the lps-1 and ISO Regen with direct wired connections to the lt3045s. 4 cables were replaced in all.  Things are already improving with use. I'm looking forward to hearing where it gets in the am. As of this afternoon, SQ is at a new high. Presence is off the charts.

 

Once stable, I'll replace the last wire between the lps-1 and the lt3045s ISO Regen with the Supra Cat 8 when it arrives in a few days. That will tell the story with this whole network cable exercise, at least for me.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

The Supra Cat 8 cable arrived yesterday. I cut off a 2 foot piece and added straight 5.5 mm x 2.1 connectors to each end and left it cooking offline powering a switch in another part of the house.  I'll give it a day or two and then have a listen.

 

The current setup with the GAC 4 continues to improve with break-in, with the apparent volume increasing and gobs of presence.  Live albums are presented in a "you are there way" that I would have thought otherwise impossible.

 

Actually in a "you are there way" that I always expected digital to deliver, but took three years of tweaking to achieve, and only 35 years after purchasing my first CD.

[lmitche]

Hey, has anyone tried the Supra Cat 8 as a network cable compared to say a BJC Cat 6a?

 

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Me, Larry.

 

I like the Supra better. I find the Supra to be a very smooth and pleasing sounding.

Good news, now I have to find my Ethernet cable crimper.

[lmitche]

7 hours ago, Bricki said:

I have changed all Ethernet cables in my network to supra 8 and it is significantly better than the audioquest pearl that it replaced....the improvements are there when you first plug in the supra cat8 but it does seem to take a long time to burn them in... Almost 2 weeks until it settles down and there seems to be an increase in trebble sweetness, depth/layering and more of a naturally rounded sound towards the end of burn in.

Wow, thanks for the motivation!

[lmitche]

Funny the telegartner and a certain belden plug look the same.

[lmitche]

Amazon has Cables Matters metal clamshell Ethernet plugs at 6 for $30. I'm gonna start there.

[lmitche]

3 minutes ago, Monge said:

The Cable Matters plugs look good. The Telegartners plugs are quite expensive In the EU. 9.99 Euro each.

https://www.reichelt.de/RJ45-Stecker-buchsen/MFP8-T568B/3/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=5854&ARTICLE=130200&OFFSET=16&SID=61VLkj8X8AAAIAAE1yYYE9016b41e35adaa6f34da9046a64233f3&LANGUAGE=EN

I can't find a definitive source for the telegartner plugs in the us. But yeah, over $10 a piece seems OTT to me. I'll let you know how the Cables Matters plugs do.

[lmitche]

OK, so the Supra Cat 8 cables have been built and integrated with the Cable Matters plugs. Definitely a SQ improvement but needs to break-in for sure.

 

The Gotham cable has replaced half of the DC cables with 4 more to go!

 

DC cables being used as DC cables. Network cables used as network cables. All is right with the world, LOL!

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, wushuliu said:

 

Did you compare the Supra directly to the Gotham? Maybe I missed that post.

Please read my last post above.

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, wushuliu said:

 

It just says DC cables being used as DC, network for network, and that you've already converted a bunch of DC to Gotham. So it sounds like you're just using the Supra for ethernet?

 

 

?

[lmitche]

50 minutes ago, wushuliu said:

Ok, well I was hoping at some point there would be attempts made to really compare and hashout cable choices and construction to get to the heart of this, but it's become more like a Choose Your Own Adventure and already stalling out. Too bad. This line of inquiry had real promise. Hopefully Swenson/Superdad will pursue this.

Why do you think comparisons were not made?  A disciplined process was followed. Tests were performed on multiple systems. Outcomes are clearly communicated. What is missing?

 

Agreed, John and Alex having a great track record of adding value and insight into CA solutions.