Lynx AES16

[jambro]

Hi:

This is a repost from the mistakenly entered download forum. I am a new subscriber trying to play HRx files with a Lynx AES16 card and a dCS Elgar Plus DAC. I am using Media Monkey on a Dell XP as recommended by RR. The Lynx will not sync with the Elgar using all possible clocking configurations. A few seconds of music is consistently interrupted by digital hash. The music may occasionally return for a few seconds at a time. Lynx says it a problem with dCS and visa versa. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance for your help.

 

Jambro

 

[rahan]

Hi Jambro,

 

Nice digital setup!

 

You may want to check if the Lynx is capable of the 2-wire AES/EBU format. I think the dCS Elgar do not accept a single wire AES/EBU format above 24/96. They only do 2-wire for 24/176.4 and 192. If the Lynx can output in 2-wire format , then you'll have to set that up accordingly. The dCS manual provide info on which channel, 1 or 2, (A or B), is left and which is right,

 

I did consider using Lynx and a few other pro-audio format conversion options, but I decided on using the Weiss DACs because they accept a direct Firewire out from the PC and have single wire capability up to 24/176.4 and 192. Simpler, cleaner interface and the processing is done outside of the noisy PC environment.

 

But, whichever hardware you use, I think the PC OS is still not very simple or friendly yet. I think you may have to fiddle with the control panel settings, Media Monkey settings, Lynx settings, etc for the 24/176.4 to be seen at the Elgar.... I'm still learning myself! But, when I got it right, the sound is quite an experience!

 

Regards,

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is going to be a real tough one if both manufacturers are pointing fingers at each other. Let us know if Rahan's suggests work. If not I can try to get someone from Lynx to jump in here are help out.

 

[jambro]

Many thanks to Rahan and Chris for their prompt responses. Yes, I am set up for dual wire AES format on both the Lynx and Elgar. It seems to be working normally until the noise starts, so everything is apparently wired correctly. Also, 16/44 data plays normally as does upsampled 24/176 from my dCS Purcell. Since the Elgar owners manual states that dual AES must be used for high data rates, it never occurred to me to use the Firewire input on the Elgar. I will try using Firewire direct out of the computer like the Weiss unit.

 

Unfortunately I am out of town for the next 2-3 weeks and will not have access to the system. However, I will give you a full report as soon as I return home. Thanks again.

 

Jambro

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hey Jambro - I just remembered something that may help you. I talk to the person who wrote the specs that Reference Recordings has on their website on a daily basis. He has the exact system with a Dell and Lynx AES16 card. However he is using legacy firmware and drivers. He did experience white noise from the setup while playing 24/176.4 tracks before he was able to narrow down the cause.

 

You probably don't know the firmware and driver version off the top of your head, but when you get a chance post the info here and I'll do some homework for you that may solve this one.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Jambro - I just talked to my friend with the Lynx and MediaMonkey. He suspects incorrect settings in MediaMonkey. Check this area when you have time:

 

Tools –

Options –

Player –

Output Plug-ins –

Options –

Buffer length – 20000 ms

Prebuffer – 0.0 ms

Buffer ahead – 0.0 ms

 

[jambro]

Chris:

 

Thanks for the updated information. I believe I am using the older driver as specified by RR but I will check as soon as I get home (2-3 weeks). Also, have experimented with the buffer settings in MonkeyMedia with no luck. However, I will also check these and let you know the results. Also, Paul at Lynx is sending me a test file to attempt to narrow down the problem to the card or the player.

 

Jambro

 

[jambro]

Chris:

 

I finally found help with my Lynx-dCS incompatibility problem. Paul Erlandson at Lynx Studio Technology graciously offered his time to solve the mystery. It seems that the Lynx card driver specified by Reference Recordings (LynxTWO Version 1.30 Build 057g) is not compatible with the dCS Elgar. Paul sent me another driver (L2WDM016.exe) which eliminated the syncing and noise problem. There are still buggy software issues, but the system basically works. So far, I am very pleased with the sound of the HRx discs. The sound is more open with silky highs and more defined bass. Switching back to the CD version is like putting cotton in the ears. If you run into anyone else trying to use this combination, a heads-up on this will save many hours of wiring and phone calls. FYI: associated equipment in this system includes Avantgarde Trios with (6) basshorns and all BAT tube gear. The sound with 24/176 or good vinyl is impressive. Thanks again for the help. You run a great website.

 

Jambro

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Jambro - Thank you very much for the information. This is one problem with relying on an old version of a driver or firmware. Not that old versions are inherantly worse, but you get locked into a version that might not work with everything. There is usually a good reason for driver updates.

 

Anyway thanks again for the resolution.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Jambro - I have a couple more questions for you about this.

 

1. When you installed the Lynx card for the first time did you cancel out of the install and follow the process of downgrading the firmware the installing the old driver?

 

2. What versions of the firmware did you use and are you using now?

 

 

Thanks a ton Jambro!

 

[jambro]

Chris:

 

Answer to question #1: Yes, I cancelled out of the normal installation routine and manually selected the old drivers on first install.

 

Answer to question #2: I don't know. When I click on the "about" menu item to find the version # the software program crashes. That is one of the bugs yet to be worked out. (The other bug is no signal readout on the mixer panels). Otherwise, the software seem to be working OK. Paul wants me to put the Lynx card in another computer to see if the problem is software-computer conflict or a defective Lynx card. I haven't yet gotten around to that. I will let you know the final outcome.

 

Regards,

 

Jambro

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thank you for the info. Please let me know how it turns out.

 

[Elprior]

Hi,

 

Just for your information, the FireWire interface on the dCS bunch can not be connected directly to your computer. This is just proprietary transportation for dsd signals (that is a protected protocol).

 

As for how to connect dCS stuffs to your computer directly, there are many possibilities :

1) optical/coaxial spdif inputs (limited to 24bits/96khz).

2) single aes input (limited to 24bits/96khz).

3) dual aes input (up to 24bits/192khz).

and the two new ones :

4) the puccini u-clock that has an usb input. I have read it should be sold around 4,2k$ (ouch). For this price you also get a dCS clock (with numerous wordclock inputs/outputs) (http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/product/puccini-u-clock).

5) the new scarlatti upsampler, that is replacing the purcell, with what seems (on the paper at least) a very nice usb input. dCS is providing with information on how it works, compared to the others existing solutions on the market (firewire, streaming through ethernet, ...). The price tag is surely awful, but hey, you decided to go done that way ! (http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/?p=product&id=33).

I'm not sure whether both usb inputs share the same implementation.

 

Now for your issue, I know nothing about the Lynx sound card.

What I know is that you may need to change the PPL setting of your upsampler, to correctly pinpoint the incoming digital data. That I have experienced while testing various transport units (although not from my computer).

 

HTH,

Elp.

 

[jeroen020]

Jambro,

 

You talked about software issues using the Lynx and de dCS Elgar. I'm thinking of buying a second hand dCS. Would you recommend combining it with a Lynx, or is it to much hassle ?

 

And how does the dual AES work ?

 

Jeroen

 

[jambro]

jeroen020:

 

The dcs elgar is very fussy with the Lynx. The Lynx tech support was successful in getting it to work for a short time, but it is now inoperative again and I haven't had the time to call tech support again. When it works, the RR HRx versions blow the cd's away. Downloads from the internet yield mixed results. The dual AES works fine with the Elgar when I can get the system to function. I am currently investigating other alternative dac's and would suggest you try out the dcs before purchase. Good luck.

 

jambro

 

[jeroen020]

thanks Jambro !

 

[BMCG]

Am using a dcs DELIUS with a LYNX AES16, no issues up to 24/96 AES single wire, indeed am quite taken with this combination as a transport.

 

The challenges emerge when picking up the clock rate above 24/96 or using dual wire AES at lower clock rates, as there is consistently noise on the left channel.

 

This occurs whether I am pushing 24/176 or 24/192, using SSRC within Foobar, or the HRx recordings.

 

Given I am driving the Lynx from a gaming rig - pending the arrival of a dedicated "silentpc" - suspect the noise is carrying from the pc, but this might well be wishful thinking...

 

Suffice that to date the dual wire AES option with the Lynx card is noisy...

 

EDIT : problem solved...why I am not sure. Swapped over the AES inputs - as was wondering whether I had a duff cable/connector - thinking this would switch noise to the right channel - lo and behold, am now able to listen to HRx at 24/176 on Foobar without noise. All I did was switch 1 for 2...go figure.

 

[fmak]

I have the same issue with the AES 16 not only with the dCS 972/954 system but with the Apogee Big Ben and Universal Audio 2192.

 

I think it is the AES16 and now I simply relock the output before the dac with the Big Ben. The sound is very good this way.

 

If you look at the reported sample rate on the AES 16, there is significantly more deviation from the correct sampling rate than most. I have 600 ppm in my PC at present. So Synchro-Lock just hunts in and out when I tried to use external clocking with an accurate clock.

 

I have given up trying to solve it. Lynx is no good at support when it comes to something they either don't understand or don't believe happens.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi fmak - When you external clock the Lynx you do have Synchro-Lock unchecked correct? This is the only way to go.

 

My experience with Lynx and the experiences of others I know has been quite the opposite of yours.

 

Thanks for the post and providing a different view of this one.

 

[Suteetat]

Chris, are you saying that the synchrolock under advance setting menu should be left unchecked?

On my setup with Esoteric D-05, dual AES/EBU and using D-05 clock output to clock input on AES16-SRC, if synchrolock is left unchecked, my Esoteric D-05 will not lock onto AES16. However, if checked, everything is working fine!

 

How do you measure deviatoin in correct sample rate on PC? On my Lynx mixer screen, sample rate is flashing alternatively between 176.4 and 176.397 constantly with clock set to 176.4 by D-05.

 

[fmak]

I have the same kind of issue; the reported clock rate in Lynx is 600 ppm out, although my Big Ben will lock easilly on twin PLL and indicates 176.4k precisely. I also have no problems with the dCs9072/954 although sending the clock back to control the AES16 is a no no., the thing just oscillates between lock and stutter. Also, software L14(?) is defcective and would not work in ASIO, although L16 is fine. However L14 would work in KS. Lynx was less than helpful as after several emails I could not log in for support.

 

I have now compared the RME HDSP 9632 to the Lynx and I reckon the RME is better. Both are relocked on the Big Ben with the Lynx system on two wire and the RME on single. For some reason the Lynx sounds poor on single AES (same cable using Zaolla silver soldered to HD plug by myself). The Lynx guy in the Forum made some excuse to try this and that but I reckon there is some hidden issue.

 

My conclusion is that the AES16 is not worth using with a high end system and that the 'superior' clcok they claim is not superior at all.

 

I wonder why there are so many complaints outside of the Lynx Forum and why these issues are not resolved?

 

If your system can run on single cable at >96k, use another card.

 

 

[Suteetat]

Hmm.... I still cannot uncheck synchrolock and keep my Esoteric D05 lock to Lynx AES16 while using D05 clock output to AES16 at the same time. Whenever I deselect synchrolock, I get word error on D05 and AES 16 automatically reverted back to internal clock eventhough it can still detect external clock. I have Lynx mixer version 2, build 016 which looks a bit different than the software in the manual. I don't have sample clock source or sample clock reference selection as stated in the manual. Under setting tab, I have record dither and buffer size in the menu where sample clock source and reference is supposed to be. Very strange.....

 

However, one thing that I discovered, D05 can accept 176 mHz input on single XLR as well as dual XLR mode.

Strange.....

 

[catastrofe]

This is an interesting thread.

 

I also have a D-05 which I'm currently feeding via Toslink from a Mac Mini. The D-05 will not lock in PLL2 mode. Esoteric customer service advises that the signal from the Mini is outside of the D-05's tolerance. In other words, it's not of high enough quality.

 

I just purchased a pre-owned Mac Pro and a Lynx AES16e. I also picked up a pre-owned Esoteric G-03X master clock. I'll clock both the Lynx and the D-05 with the G-03X, and post my experiences.

 

[fmak]

You may be better off avoiding a Lynx (with the issues reported here) and using an RME9632 which has very stable and well established hardware and software. You gain by having Digicheck, which tells you exactly what bits are active down to bit 27, plus all kinds of graphical information. I have compared the two and I like the RME better.

 

It is well known that the embedded clock from PCs or MACs can fall out of the lock range of dacs with narrow PLLs to reduce jitter. This is probably what is happening with your D05

 

[catastrofe]

Fmak, thanks for the input. We'll see what happens. I've already got the Lynx (although unopened) and I know Chris swears by it. Sounds like you swear at it. ;-)

I haven't done any research on the RME9632. . .

 

Bob