Screwdriver Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said: JRiver does bit-perfect just fine. There is so many other factors, besides the media player, with a leaky server that can effect SQ on a given day, that it's impossible to point just a finger at the media player doing bit perfect. In fact, as I've optomized my server with isolated power and upgraded clocking, I find that software changes have less effect if any at all on my SQ. No need to focus on the media player, there are far bigger dragons to slay on the way to the DAC. If a media player is doing bit-perfect, then it should not color the music as it will just be sending the 1's and 0's to the DAC unaltered. If two players claim to be bit-perfect and all else in the system is the same, and one player sounds different then the other, then one or both are not truly bit-perfect. Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, Screwdriver said: If a media player is doing bit-perfect, then it should not color the music as it will just be sending the 1's and 0's to the DAC unaltered. If two players claim to be bit-perfect and all else in the system is the same, and one player sounds different then the other, then one or both are not truly bit-perfect. Coloring music (I've been guilty of this) is an analog term that doesn't apply to digital. Digital data stream has other factors know well and unknown well that effect a DAC's ability to accurately reproduce analog . Lately the talk has been the phase noise of clocking. If it were only so simple those 1's and 0's to be streamed operating in an analog physical world. Seems timing to the brain is far more acutely aware of these differences. look&listen 1 (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
jriver Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 21 hours ago, bobbmd said: @Screwdriver ANYTHING is better than JRiver except maybe Amarra/Sonic Studio in any of its generations... both are awful IMHO I took a look at your posts on our forum and I didn't see much other than setup problems during your trial. If you're still unhappy with JRiver, please post some details on our forum, and we'll try to help. Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center / jriver.com Link to comment
Screwdriver Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said: Coloring music (I've been guilty of this) is an analog term that doesn't apply to digital. Digital data stream has other factors know well and unknown well that effect a DAC's ability to accurately reproduce analog . Lately the talk has been the phase noise of clocking. If it were only so simple those 1's and 0's to be streamed operating in an analog physical world. Seems timing to the brain is far more acutely aware of these differences. Yeah....I was using coloring as a term for altering the digital data, as a bit-perfect player should not be doing. My argument is, that if a program claims to be bit-perfect then it should send an exact copy of the data to the DAC. The program should just act as a server, organizer etc. ElviaCaprice 1 Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 If audio player works in bit-perfect mode, there is no matter, that is player. Except, obviously audible distortions. If a player process audio, in my opinion, here personal opinion for given audio system is final criteria. Coloring music is neither good or bad. It is also matter of personal taste. There are number of audio players ( https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/dsd-player ). But, I'd rather look at service functionality (remote control abilities, displaying metadata, etc.) with bit-perfect playback. In this case, big computing resources are not required too. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
Rak Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 A lot of players are bit perfect. A friend of mine has Weiss 202. It has such test:With the bit-perfect test files loaded onto the host media server or computer, one flips the TRSP CHECK toggle switch to its ‘on’ position, which immediately mutes the INT 202 once again without any annoying ticks. As soon as each of the 12 test files starts playing—there is one for 16-bit and 24-bit samples at each of the sampling rates supported—the power LED starts flashing and you’re ready to go. If not, one or more setting in JRMC must be corrected. He tried Foobar, JRMC, Bughed. All are bit perfect. Bughed is the best. Link to comment
tongpohmy Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 why not consider recording studio software? i have stop listened pc hifi about 2 years so i dont know if it have a better one than saw studio, jriver, footbar not even close, only downside is really not user friendly, only play one file one time, that why i rip my whole cd to one file. Link to comment
Ropet Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I started with JRiver v16 (as I recall). I have also tried Monkey and Foobar but stayed with JRiver, currently v. 24.0.55. The sound discussion between bit perfect media players is a "no question" for me. If there is a difference it is minor and nothing to make noise about in my view. When visiting friends using JRiver I see many times that they have set up Windows wrong. Some are not using the correct firmware, others convert DSD-files to PCM, some have not enabled Wasapi's Exlusive access or have older versions etc. My sound has improved a lot since I started with JRiver but the main reason for this are other things in my view. Some examples: I have bought a new laptop with more internal memory and faster processor I started with Win Vista and now run with Windows 10 Pro Windows 10 seems to have worked with their "audiophile" properties and can now handle 24/384 as default (if desired) I have also spent some time to set up Windows priorities in a more appropriate way using the advices from Brad Robinsons "Glitch Free" guidelines among others, which I found here on ComputerAudiophile. Another possibility is to install the Swiss Audiophile optimizer that is also used by SOtM. My laptop is dedicated for music only. For other use I need a separate laptop. The sound is far better today than before. There might be some changes in JRiver that contributed to this but I'm quite sure that the main reasons are to be found elsewhere like in the other changes I made. One good example is the stability, which was a big issue before including glitches. It is completely gone. The last 8-10 months (since I made the changes above), I had not a single dropout. JRiver is the same... It is very easy to "blame" everything on JRiver, Foobar2000, Audirvana or whatever is used. In my experince the real nirvana comes with a good supporting system like how Windows is set up, processors etc. To get sound from your laptop is not complicated but to take full advantage of it takes some workload and efforts. Some hardwares like SOtM is selling ready solutions including an optimized "pc" in a hifi look using programs like "Audiophile Optimizer" that sounds very good. Using a Windows laptop you have to do it yourself. Link to comment
phusis Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 On 4/21/2018 at 1:47 AM, cjf said: I think ROON is better than JRiver. For a few reasons really. 1. JRiver is only partially stable. No telling what days that will be 2. Roon runs with full functionality on Linux for years on end..not even a burp 3. Linux wipes the floor with Windows in terms of SQ...Period JRiver has its purpose but it's not a piece of software I enjoy using very much...YMMV You can run JRiver on Linux with a Master license (which I have: MC24 on WIN10 Pro 64-bit). I intend to try it out with an upcoming DIY mediaserver as part of a dual-boot setup (WIN10 for Blu-ray/file playback, and Linux for music). For my use JRiver is great, as it serves both film (w/AnyDVD HD) and music playback, added to a ton of other features like Convolution, etc. - options I don't presently use, but you have admire the plethora of features for people to use here, and that at a very fair cost. Its user interface isn't always the most intuitive, can be complex and take some getting used to. With regard to sound quality in how it applies to the different software applications, I'm not necessarily a "if bit-perfect = all applications sound the same" kind of guy. That is, maybe they do sound similar (all things being equal), but what may nonetheless have them sound different to one another could be related to how they're able to suppress, bypass, whatever the myriad of processes running on a PC - with Windows at least. Currently I use Fidelizer 8.2 (free version), with success. Source: Synology NAS > DIY Mediaserver • Software: JRiver MC31/Fidelizer Pro • Optical output: ASUS Xonar AE 24/192 • DAC/preamp: Blue Cheese Audio Roquefort • Digital cross-over: Xilica XP-3060 • Speakers: Electro-Voice TS9040D LX (for active config.) • Subwoofers: 2 x MicroWrecker Tapped Horns • EV horns amp: MC² Audio T2000 • EV bass amp: MC² Audio T1500 • Subs amp: MC² Audio T2000 • EV horns cables: Mundorf silver/gold 1mm solid-core • IC: Mundorf silver/gold XLR/Mogami 2549 XLR/Cordial CMK Road 250 XLR • Subs and EV bass cable: Cordial CLS 425 • Power cables: 15AWG Solid-core wire w/IeGo pure copper plugs (DIY) Link to comment
Popular Post peter73 Posted December 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 5/15/2018 at 6:13 AM, Allan F said: In your opinion and experience, perhaps. But that is contrary to the experience of many others, who have even found that different versions of JRiver do not sound the same. And so did these people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings hipstone and Ralf11 2 Link to comment
Allan F Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 hours ago, peter73 said: And so did these people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings An inappropriate and silly analogy, but not unexpected from someone who most likely believes that the earth is flat. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I hope you are not having a HiFi emergency Link to comment
numlog Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Having used foobar, HQP, XXHE, Audirvana - Jriver is still the most accessible player. XXHE and HQ Player are the serious, analytical players, for focused listening they are the better choice but their general sound, when you arent entirely focused on the music, arent the best, HQ player being very bright and XXHE being very laidback, both fairly bass light too for some reason (without any upsampling). Jriver sounds lively, bassy, very smooth, the general impression you get from listening to it is great. Link to comment
Montanari Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 It s not bass light It s just more articulate (hqplayer) And here it actually sounds warmer than jriver I Heard jriver more vshaped than hqplayer Link to comment
robocop Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Quote XXHE being very laidback, both fairly bass light too for some reason (without any upsampling). numlog I'd disagree with this. XXHE has the capacity to cover all shades of sound. Recent adjustments in the software have given me more bass to the point of having to reduce bass output to subs in an active system with active crossover. This software needs work to get right, not including a dedicated computer for source audio and a DAC that can support up to 32/768. I recently tried JRiver and do largely agree with your comments for general use but still find XXhighend sound much superior more musical information cleaner detailed bass even for background listening. Robert Link to comment
numlog Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, robocop said: I'd disagree with this. XXHE has the capacity to cover all shades of sound. Recent adjustments in the software have given me more bass to the point of having to reduce bass output to subs in an active system with active crossover. This software needs work to get right, not including a dedicated computer for source audio and a DAC that can support up to 32/768. I recently tried JRiver and do largely agree with your comments for general use but still find XXhighend sound much superior more musical information cleaner detailed bass even for background listening. Robert true, there are too many variables in the software itself to label it one way or another, I tended to choose settings that increase detail above all else , eg minimum buffer size, wasapi over KS plus many others. infact im reminded now that I have been using wasapi mainly for its clean but clinical sound but KS with phase alignment was extremely involving and musical sounding... with no DC blocking at all on the amp it wasnt safe to use so ended up forgetting all about it. Link to comment
tongpohmy Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I using weiss dac2, I tried many daw software and some music player like jriver and foobar only saw studio can play very low latency setting and low buffer size Link to comment
audiventory Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Below I added information about players with link to latest article. Many players have bit-perfect mode. This mode is neutral for sound quality, that is defined by DAC and next devices. If you want use player in bit-perfect mode only, select player by functionality rather. I strongly recommend care about gapless mode in player for live concerts and operas. As example, our conversion software have True Gapless Mode. But it have point, when used player also have gapless mode. If you want to re-sample/process audio file content inside player, it is to sophisticated estimation of real sound quality. We can estimate it by proper tests. But, in my opinion, final choise is pure personal always. I'd recommend to listen all players personally at your audio system. Read also: Audio player list: https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/audio-player How to improve sound quality: https://samplerateconverter.com/content/how-improve-sound-quality AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
hipstone Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 5/5/2018 at 10:28 PM, hytechrednek said: I happened to find this comment on the JRiver help forums but nobody has answered. Apparently the improvements date back to v23: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112717.msg779523.html#msg779523 Two Jr. members heard an improvement, no further comments, no answers at all. Nothing really worth linking to imo. I use JRiver, and heard no improvement when I moved up to vers. 23. It sounds fine to me anyway. Link to comment
motberg Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 12/11/2018 at 6:41 PM, tongpohmy said: I using weiss dac2, I tried many daw software and some music player like jriver and foobar only saw studio can play very low latency setting and low buffer size This is interesting, thanks... but how do you use this for simple album playback? Link to comment
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