Sprout 100 ? NAD D 3020 ? Vidar ? Stellar S300

[RMMN]

I demo’ed the taller Magnepan 1.7 speakers (I had originally wanted to hear the 0.7’s but the 1.7’s were already hooked up), driven by a large Audio Research amp. I listened to Harry Connick Jr.’s Red Light, Blue Light Jazz song. It sounded very clean, with the right amount of bass for that type of music. But since I also like dance/Hip-hop and like to feel the deep bass with my body, the dealer added a top of the line REL subwoofer to the mix, and it’s at that point that the system sounded excellent. 

[gmgraves]

20 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

What was your favorite room at AXPONA? Did you hear any Magnepans there?

Yes. The new Magnepan MG-30.7. Among the best speakers there and compared to many, a bargain at $30K. Absolutely outperforming the most expensive speakers from Wilson, Magico, YG Acoustics, etc. 

You really like to shoot from the hip don't you GUTB?

[gmgraves]

2 minutes ago, RMMN said:

I demo’ed the taller Magnepan 1.7 speakers (I had originally wanted to hear the 0.7’s but the 1.7’s were already hooked up), driven by a large Audio Research amp. I listened to Harry Connick Jr.’s Red Light, Blue Light Jazz song. It sounded very clean, with the right amount of bass for that type of music. But since I also like dance/Hip-hop and like to feel the deep bass with my body, the dealer added a top of the line REL subwoofer to the mix, and it’s at that point that the system sounded excellent. 

You couldn't go wrong with either the 1.7s or the .7s, but both could use a sub woofer or two!

[RMMN]

8 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

You couldn't go wrong with either the 1.7s or the .7s, but both could use a sub woofer or two!

Thanks @gmgraves

[mav52]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

I’m neurotypical. Less than 1% of the show had those speakers so nowhere is a suitable hyperbole.

Give it up. Stop trying to back up and start talking percents.  You said nowhere to be seen, which to most it means zero, 0.   I see you more of a person that likes to Exaggerate. 

[Ralf11]

also, please stop mis-spelling nutotypical

[Ralf11]

OP - lots of people are telling you to get a sub with the Maggies (and lots of people do that and are very happy)

 

but Magnepan will try to talk you out of that due to interface concerns as they cross over; after many years, they introduced the DWM bass panel (they say it gives you "more bass" but not "deeper bass" - which may mean it doesn't go all that low, but reinforces the downslope of the SPL vs. freq. response plot) - those should go 1 ft. in front of the normal panels, so that is more space

 

- for the record, I have a pair of 3.7i Maggies, which replaced 1.5QRs (which in turn replaced Vandersteens - perhaps a better speaker for rock n roll with a big back beat)

 

George - I hope they have a color besides blue for the big Maggies

[PeterG]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

OP - lots of people are telling you to get a sub with the Maggies (and lots of people do that and are very happy)

 

but Magnepan will try to talk you out of that due to interface concerns as they cross over; after many years, they introduced the DWM bass panel (they say it gives you "more bass" but not "deeper bass" - which may mean it doesn't go all that low, but reinforces the downslope of the SPL vs. freq. response plot) - those should go 1 ft. in front of the normal panels, so that is more space

 

- for the record, I have a pair of 3.7i Maggies, which replaced 1.5QRs (which in turn replaced Vandersteens - perhaps a better speaker for rock n roll with a big back beat)

 

George - I hope they have a color besides blue for the big Maggies

 

I concur with Ralf that Maggies have made many very happy.  I was intrigued by them but stayed away due to room concerns.

 

But while you're still deciding on the whole setup--a plug for an item under consideration that most overlook--buy a sub!  Properly set up, they are a huge improvement in depth of sound and musicality with almost any speakers.  Even a lower end REL T5, just for example, makes a huge difference.  (And when the dealer tells you you don't "need" one with a particular pair of speakers, listen with and without, or compare a lower priced pair with REL to a high priced pair without--you'll be shocked.)

 

 

[RMMN]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

the DWM bass panel (they say it gives you "more bass" but not "deeper bass" - which may mean it doesn't go all that low

 

@Ralf11 thanks! Could you recommend a couple subwoofer models ?

[RMMN]

6 hours ago, PeterG said:

buy a sub!  Properly set up, they are a huge improvement in depth of sound and musicality with almost any speakers.  Even a lower end REL T5, just for example, makes a huge difference.

Thanks @PeterG! Should I get one or two subs?

[PeterG]

1 hour ago, RMMN said:

Thanks @PeterG! Should I get one or two subs?

 

I have a single B&W DB3D on my primary system, after starting with a REL T5.  I love them both.  My dealer advised me to stick with one, in part due to the complexity of adding a second, in part due to the idea that the money would be better spent on getting a better single sub than two lesser subs for the same dollars.  If you happen to end up with B&W speakers, a big advantage of the B&W subs is that they will set the crossover and room adjustments automatically.  With any sub you buy, the settings are critical, and may take a few days of tinkering to get them so they are properly locked in with your speakers and room.

[Ralf11]

9 hours ago, RMMN said:

 

@Ralf11 thanks! Could you recommend a couple subwoofer models ?

 

I hear a lot about the REL, but don't use subs myself - the bigger Maggies don't "need" them as much.

 

Be sure to hunt up some posts by @wgscott who had a sub catch on fire in his home.

 

2 subs are useful - one xlnt idea is the Swarm sub system, which uses several - this allows one to really control room nodes - setup problems/complexity can be ameliorated with modern software analysis

[GUTB]

It’s interesting how the online low end seems to generally fall towards this pole of gravity dominated by Magnepans and class-D.

[gmgraves]

19 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

OP - lots of people are telling you to get a sub with the Maggies (and lots of people do that and are very happy)

 

but Magnepan will try to talk you out of that due to interface concerns as they cross over; after many years, they introduced the DWM bass panel (they say it gives you "more bass" but not "deeper bass" - which may mean it doesn't go all that low, but reinforces the downslope of the SPL vs. freq. response plot) - those should go 1 ft. in front of the normal panels, so that is more space

 

- for the record, I have a pair of 3.7i Maggies, which replaced 1.5QRs (which in turn replaced Vandersteens - perhaps a better speaker for rock n roll with a big back beat)

 

George - I hope they have a color besides blue for the big Maggies

Yes, they feel that cone subs are "too slow" to keep up with the almost massless ribbon and "quasi-ribbon" technology the company uses. And while that might be technically true, I've heard many Maggies paired with various subs from companies like Velodyne, Sun, and even Martin Logan, and I've yet to hear one setup that didn't work. I have heard the sub panel that Magnepan sells, and I really wasn't impressed (certainly not for $800). They are right about one thing, it doesn't give deeper bass, just "more" bass! Believe it or not, if properly spent, that $800 can buy one quality bass response down into the mid 20's from any Maggie, including the MG-.7s.

And I suspect that the 30.7s are available in other colors than blue.

[Ralf11]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:33 PM, GUTB said:

 

What was your favorite room at AXPONA?

 

This one:

 

 

 

[gmgraves]

34 minutes ago, GUTB said:

It’s interesting how the online low end seems to generally fall towards this pole of gravity dominated by Magnepans and class-D.

Since when are six thousand dollar and up speakers "the low end"? Just because they sell two models (3 if you count the entry, mail-order only MMG) that are under $2K, doesn't make them "low-end" in performance. For instance, the MG -.7, at $1500, sounds better  (and by that I mean they out-perform) than any stand mounted mini-monitor, regardless of price and that includes the wildly over-priced Wilson Duette II at almost $20 grand as well as other speakers of that type like the Raidho D-1.1 ($37K) and any of the gorgeous Sonus Faber stand mounts I've ever heard. You are a price snob, my friend, and it shows!

 

I won't comment on the Class-D amplification. I've only heard two at any great length. One is the 50 WPC NAD 5070, and the 150 WPC (8Ω) Behringer NU1000. Neither are what I would call high-end, but both do some things superbly well. I wouldn't hesitate to employ the Behringer as a sub-woofer amplifier, the bass is that good, The NAD sounds pretty nice, but it doesn't image very well in that it has a very shallow, and not too wide soundstage. It would be fine for a vacation cottage system or an office system, though but it only has digital inputs. 

[firedog]

On 5/1/2018 at 9:55 PM, GUTB said:

Planars and electrostats are nowhere to be seen at audio shows which are dominated by box speakers. Why is that?

Maybe because they need  a lot of space and can be hard to setup well, so they aren't the best choice for hotel room environments and the like?

[firedog]

On 5/1/2018 at 11:39 PM, mav52 said:

It doesn't matter how many rooms   What you said ' nowhere to be seen "  which means you are wrong  

 

 

Don't confuse him with the facts....oh, yeah, he ignores them anyway when they are inconvenient for him.

[Ralf11]

I keep telling you guys, it is a very limited bot - not much AI is running that thing

[GUTB]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Since when are six thousand dollar and up speakers "the low end"? Just because they sell two models (3 if you count the entry, mail-order only MMG) that are under $2K, doesn't make them "low-end" in performance. For instance, the MG -.7, at $1500, sounds better  (and by that I mean they out-perform) than any stand mounted mini-monitor, regardless of price and that includes the wildly over-priced Wilson Duette II at almost $20 grand as well as other speakers of that type like the Raidho D-1.1 ($37K) and any of the gorgeous Sonus Faber stand mounts I've ever heard. You are a price snob, my friend, and it shows!

 

I won't comment on the Class-D amplification. I've only heard two at any great length. One is the 50 WPC NAD 5070, and the 150 WPC (8Ω) Behringer NU1000. Neither are what I would call high-end, but both do some things superbly well. I wouldn't hesitate to employ the Behringer as a sub-woofer amplifier, the bass is that good, The NAD sounds pretty nice, but it doesn't image very well in that it has a very shallow, and not too wide soundstage. It would be fine for a vacation cottage system or an office system, though but it only has digital inputs. 

 

When we look at the $20k and up spectrum you’ll see Wilsons, TADs, Magicos, etc. What they all have in common: large super-heavy box speakers. The low-end is, let’s say, less than $2k. These are dominated by lightweight box speakers. But you’ll find online discussions like here in CA the discussion seems to gravitate towards Magnepans. Not the legendary Quads, not the more expensive MLs or the other more boutique panel speaker makers — Magnepans. The discussion usually looks like this: "the .7 is great," "yeah the 1.7 is the best," "Magnepans beat $20k speakers," etc and so on. 

 

No one ever says: "the smaller Magnepans have great air and imaging but have inferior soundstages and lack sonic weight, KEF R-series are much better in those areas".

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

I keep telling you guys, it is a very limited bot - not much AI is running that thing

 

Why do you want people to have inferior music experiences?

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

When we look at the $20k and up spectrum you’ll see Wilsons, TADs, Magicos, etc. What they all have in common: large super-heavy box speakers. The low-end is, let’s say, less than $2k. These are dominated by lightweight box speakers. But you’ll find online discussions like here in CA the discussion seems to gravitate towards Magnepans. Not the legendary Quads, not the more expensive MLs or the other more boutique panel speaker makers — Magnepans. The discussion usually looks like this: "the .7 is great," "yeah the 1.7 is the best," "Magnepans beat $20k speakers," etc and so on. 

 

No one ever says: "the smaller Magnepans have great air and imaging but have inferior soundstages and lack sonic weight, KEF R-series are much better in those areas".

You are right. No one ever says "the smaller Magnepans have great air and imaging but have inferior soundstages and lack sonic weight, KEF R-series are much better in those areas" because the second part of that statement isn't true. And again, you show your monetary snobbism, GUTB, because most audio enthusiasts in this world can't afford a pair of $200,000+ Wilsons or Magicos, and Frankly, the big KEFs leave me cold as do most box speakers and that includes the aforementioned Wilsons and Magicos. If I were in the market for new speakers, I'd still go with either Maggie MG-3.7is or MG-20.7is or perhaps M-L Renaissance ESL 15A, or maybe their Expression ESL13A . And if I wanted to really spend on speakers, I go for the M-L Neoliths or maybe spend a little less and buy MG-30.7s. Some people prefer the speed, airiness and coherence of diaphragm-based planar speakers, and find even the most expensive box speakers with conventional drivers too damned slow! 

You know there was a time when the average Joe could afford to have a state-of-the-art audio system, because even the best wasn't so expensive that the average working man making $5K/yr couldn't afford the very best. There was no audio snobbery of the kind you exhibit. It's too bad that greed and avarice have taken over this avocation like it has taken over everything else in this society!

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Why do you want people to have inferior music experiences?

So he can feel superior. Why else?

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

This one:

 

 

 

Ah, the Krell room. obviously!

[MarkS]

18 hours ago, RMMN said:

Thanks @PeterG! Should I get one or two subs?

 

REL and JL Audio are well regarded as is Velodyne. Depending on room size, two smaller subs likely would outperform one larger sub (e.g., two 10” vs. one 13”), but that is speculative and room dependent.