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Sprout 100 ? NAD D 3020 ? Vidar ? Stellar S300


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Hello,

 

I would like to become an audiophile as a new hobby. I don’t know that much about amplifiers and speakers at the audiophile level. May humbly ask the more experienced  members of the forum for their opinion and recommendations?

 

SETUP:

I will be running with the Elac Uni-fi UF5 speakers. As a start, I’ll be your playing from my iPhone from Apple Music to Airport Express:output 3.5 mm Jack or mini tosslink.

 

AMP:

I need help choosing an amp:

 

Sprout 100 ?

New Version to come out in May.  I won’t be using vinyl.

 

NAD D 3020 ?

 

Vidar ?

Looking at the specs/price this is impressive.

 

Stellar S300?

 PS audio claims this is very good. Class A —> Class D.

 

Any experience/recommendations you can share with me will help.

Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Welcome - the first rule of computeraudio.com is to ignore GUTB, or take his posts with many grains of salt...

 

You are going to want an external DAC at some point.  And it will make a bigger SQ difference than the amp.

 

Now, amps - the 3020 is highly regarded but is not a newer design.

 

The PS audio gain cell amps are also highly regarded and I have been looking into them myself.

 

Schiit is famed for high performance at reasonable prices, but at least some people have had mechanical noise from the Vidar.  I crossed it off my list.  But my list is not your list...

 

You didn't post a budget but on would help people help you.  If it includes a $3,000 amp then the Benchmark is formidable.

 

Lot of posts in various threads but you'll need to search them out.

 

Do you have mp3 files?  If so, can I convince you to replace them with Apple Lossles or replace some of them?

 

 

  

Hi Ralph11, Thank you for your input on the Vidar mechanical noise. I appreciate! 

 

I didn’t know a DAC made such a difference,  but I hear a lot of people saying so. Ken Rockwell said the Airport Express had a good DAC (https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm). Anyway if a make my system modular I can always upgrade one component at a time.

 

My budget for electronics is: $2300. (It’s a hobby so typically it grows over time :-)

 

I think I might just get the PS Audio Stellar S300 just to be safe.  I’ll put a simple preamp for volume control as a start, and use the Airport express that I already have to get me started.

 

Thanks for the guidance on mp3 files: I am streaming from Apple Music (256 kbps AAC I think), but I plan on switching to Tidal after I get my system (not sure how that is going to work). Streaming is convenient. If at all possible I’d like to continue that way but if it becomes a necessity I could setting up a Mac mini as a dedicated music server (I have a mini laying around, but this sounds like a lot of work).

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2 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

Go and get yourself a nice integrated amp with an built-in DAC. Check out the Creek EVO 50A with the built in RUBY DAC. I once owned the EVO 50A. Its a very nice product, well built with a class A/B amp. This is a good starting point if you are on a budget. 

Thanks Nordkapp.  I added it to my list of candidates.

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2 hours ago, psjug said:

Don't be afraid to go with used gear.  You can get nice stuff and save a boatload of money.  On speakers, it sounds like you already decided, but you should make sure you are getting something that will work well with your room.  My rooms are difficult, so I like stand-mounted and front ported speakers and subs.

Hi psjug,  thank you for your suggestion. You are  saying for a smaller room, a bookshelf speaker would work better than a floorstanding speaker. I didn’t think about that. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

if you just rip a CD onto your mac it is very little work - just use iTunes; rip it to Apple Lossless, then get an Apple TV # (an older one) and plug it in to your DAC - that's what I do and it works well

 

you can just do this with your favorite albums - at least at first

 

generally, I think a DAC will make a bigger difference than different amps (as long as they don't clip)

 

Apple products usually have fairly good DACs - it is all relative, but I expect $500 would get you a DAC that makes the SQ a lot better (get one you can return and send it back if not)

 

One big caution - Ken Rockwell is not a good source, esp. for photography if you are a photographer

 

 

Ralf11, I’ll rip a CD to ALAC tomorrow in iTunes, and cast it to my Apple TV and Airport Express to see what I get. Thanks for the idea!

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4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

got the PS Audio M700 monoblocks and they are fantastic for the money. So the S300 should be very good as well. 

Hi Alan! Thank you for the feedback on the PS audio Class A/D amplifier. It’s  hard to find reviews of this gear so that’s great to hear you like it !  I hear a lot I hate about class D. That’s reassuring, as I am leaning towards getting the S300.

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39 minutes ago, Sunflower_sutra said:

Hi RMMN,

 

Been a long time lurker of this forum but just signed up to give you some advice. I'll run through your choices quickly and then give you some general advice at the bottom.

 

Sprout 100 ? Personally would stay away from this.

 

NAD D 3020 ? It's fun but underpowered I got bored of it quickly just powering 50w speakers. 

 

Vidar ? This is a power amp don't underestimate the importance of the preamp

 

Stellar S300? The same as the vidar. If you don't have a decent preamp your not going to get the most out of these. The volume control surspingly has a big impact on the quality of sound. 

 

Anyhow welcome to the hobby! My general advice would be to consider where you are going to go with this equipment in the future if this is just the start for you i.e upgrade paths, you would hit dead ends very quickly with the first two amps. My other bit of advice is don't bother with a amp that has a inbuilt DAC in it. What's the point? Your only going to want to upgrade the dac in a year so your going to then end up with a separate dac which is wasteful. Stick to a good quality amp that doesn't waste itself with fancy add-ons. Don't be afraid of the used market, also consider 0% finance as can make things easier.

 

Also this may sound very stupid but maybe save up till you've got to the point where your like this is crazy money to spend, then get something. as you'll be in love with that setup for years because you know you wouldn't be able to afford anything more or better. I am saying that as upgradeitis is a itchy pain in the arse and buyers remorse is even worse. So possible solution till you save up more is too buy really good headphones and a headphone amp/dac which could keep you happy for a while and be cheaper plus if you look after headphones they will probably last you longer then a budget 2.0 stereo. 

Hi @Sunflower_sutra,  Thank you so much for making the effort to sign up so that you could help me choose. That’s really kind of you!

 

To summarize your guidance:

 

1. Go modular: I should stay clear from the 50 W all integrated amps because they’re not modular thus not upgradable -  That makes sense: So no Sprout nor 3020.

 

2. Get a good pre-amp - The Freya has been suggested. (Balanced, tubes).

 

3. Go big or go home:  You get what you pay for. Save until you can afford something really enjoy.    People that buy what they can afford end up rebuying what they needed In the first place, which makes buying cheap very expensive and frustrating. In the meantime listen in the car or with a headphone amp + good headphone set.  - I’ve owned the Grado’s sr80 in the past, they were good but overly bright, and uncomfortable after a while.  Any recommendations? I learned about Japanese electrostatic headphones that cost $3000  but I don’t have the budget for that. The Grados where $100,  and I liked them better than my Bose noise canceling headphones I used to have.

 

 The advise you provided is excellent! Thank you! 

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15 hours ago, newworld said:

Cambridge CXA60 is really goo

 

@newworld  

Hi Newworld, Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I appreciate very much!

 

Wow, I’m discovering the choices and options in Hi-Fi are more numerous that I had ever imagined. They say in sales give people 4 choices, otherwise they get confused and don’t buy (I used to do photography at a professional level, and it was easy: only two choices: Canon or Nikon, and they are as good as the other).

 

The Cambridge Audio CXA60 and CXA80 look nice and fit in my budget. 

 

PS Audio claims that the lesser version Elac UB6 speaker combined with the Sprout sound fantastic for the price. What makes the Elac’s are hard to drive? 

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16 hours ago, MikePM said:

Here is a list of power amps in the +/- $1500 range that will handle the Elacs.

 

PS Audion Stellar S300

AVA Synergy 300 (450 for about $500 more)

Cambridge Azur 851W

Odyssey Stratos

 

If you want an integrated you might look at the Rogue Audio Sphinx V2

Hi @MikePM! Thanks!

 

PS audio said they will give full retail price credit when upgrading from PS Audio to PS Audio equipment. That’s amazing! 

 

So an upgrade path may be: (Sprout 100) -> Stellar S300 -> M700 -> BHK. 

 

Stellar M700 Curves:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-m700-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

 

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12 hours ago, zugisland said:

my new ps m700 monos..thurs..and have been burning them in continuous since then And can tell you I am more then pleasantly surprised. 1st aesthetics..i have the silver and they are gorgeous imho..2..the sound is liquid and allows for great detail which rivaled my now gone pass labs 100

@zugisland Congratulations on your new setup!! Thank you for sharing that you experienced the M700’s rivalling the sound of the Pass Labs 100 (200W Class A). That says something about the M700’s sound quality.

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On 4/29/2018 at 2:47 PM, GUTB said:

The fundamental limitation of class D is the lack of linearity;

 

Interesting. I found this article :

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1274731

 

I don’t understand everything in it,  but the author talks about the ratio of smallest to the greatest reproducible signal. Are these graphs available for D amplifiers?  If they where we could determine that this the class D amplifier is good while this one isn’t.  The author is saying that class A/B amplifier are easier to judge because the test graphs apply to them, but not so much to class D.

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8 hours ago, DancingSea said:

It’s worth noting that Paul McGowan, co owner/ founder of PS Audio, has an elaborate all Emotiva home theatre system. 

 

Emotiva makes good stuff!

Wow, how interesting!!! thanks for letting us know @DancingSea!

Emotiva’s BasX line - CES 2017: 

 

 

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8 hours ago, GUTB said:

They make crap. To a home theatre enthusiast that just needs power, sharp highs and thudding lows Emotiva is pretty good without spending big $$$ on luxury brand names like say, Anthem. To an audiophile though they make junk. I wouldn’t even consider Emotiva entry-level.

 

As @DancingSea mentioned, Paul McGowan has a post where he says good things about them for high-count-channel home theatre use:

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/nice-rack/

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I demo’ed the taller Magnepan 1.7 speakers (I had originally wanted to hear the 0.7’s but the 1.7’s were already hooked up), driven by a large Audio Research amp. I listened to Harry Connick Jr.’s Red Light, Blue Light Jazz song. It sounded very clean, with the right amount of bass for that type of music. But since I also like dance/Hip-hop and like to feel the deep bass with my body, the dealer added a top of the line REL subwoofer to the mix, and it’s at that point that the system sounded excellent. 

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6 hours ago, PeterG said:

buy a sub!  Properly set up, they are a huge improvement in depth of sound and musicality with almost any speakers.  Even a lower end REL T5, just for example, makes a huge difference.

Thanks @PeterG! Should I get one or two subs?

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