Innuos ZENith "STATEMENT"

[Blackmorec]

23 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

Hi Nuno,

 

really thank you for your advice, very useful to go on the right way. I'll take into consideration. In effect you helped me a lot because I'm planning to use the brand new PS Audio AirLens, see here the recent video from Paul McGowan, from the ZENith > PhoenixNET (via ethernet) to the PS Audio DS DAC (via I2S):

https://www.psaudio.com/askpaulvideo/unveiling-the-ps-audio-airlens/

 

You can see in signature my actual system, at the moment I'm temporarily going USB through a Matrix (2), that outperforms IME the USB directly to the DAC (3) connection but next weeks I have to choose between:

1> Ethernet - AirLens - I2S to DAC

2> USB - Matrix - I2S to DAC

3> USB directly to to DAC

 

PS Audio guys know very well Innuos gear, I know, and they firmly suggest an I2S connection to their DS DAC. On the other hand Innuos philosophy tends to prefer USB connections. A sort of dilemma I suppose to solve only by ears, as usual!

 

And, as a consequence of the above points, I need to choose between my actual ZENith+Phoenix and Statement+Phoenix.

I was just wondering how the Statement, in this case, can bring to system compared to my actual ZENith set up.

 

Any suggestion will be very appreciate.

 

Congrats for your products, I'm loving them so much! And your customer service too, really remarkable, well done Nuno!

Hi Luca,

i have owned a Zenith MkII SE, a Statement, a Statement + PhoenixNET and a Statement NextGen + PhoenixNET. 

 

At the point of making each upgrade i was perfectly happy with the sound i was getting and found it hard to imagine where the upgraded SQ would come from. And yet each upgrade delivered what i considered to be worth every penny and more of what I paid. 

Your system still has plenty of scope for a major source upgrade to be fully reflected in the final sound. 

What  I discovered is that while each of the upgrades provide very significant improvements in all the normal hi-fi related attributes, the biggest impact was on my reaction to and enjoyment of the music.  As the system gets better and better it gets harder and harder to analyse the music’s individual qualities as you are being overwhelmed by the beauty of the music and its message. Its hard to express the magic at work but you’ll know exactly what i mean the day the system reaches its fully burned in point and you are swept away by profoundly beautiful music.  

And the more you refine your network, the better it all gets so your system has a really cool upgrade path that brings big rewards for reasonable money and provides many upgrade opportunities. And what I really like about all this is that the baseline…the sound before any changes is a really, really nice place to be with no major errs or errors, but the improvements are often quite profoundly better in terms of musical performance and your reaction/response. Win/win ….you’re in a nice place and the network allows you to get onto a much higher plane.  So what I’m saying is; the PhoenixNET - Zenith is a very very nice place to be. But the PhoenixNET - Statement NG - is on a different level, that takes the illusion of being in a venue with the performers to an altogether higher plane…..including both physical and psychological aspects and effects that change the way you hear and feel the whole musical presentation.   

We’re not talking hi-fi related terms any more, we’re talking physical reactions like genuine shivers down the spine, tears, breath holding, skin and bone sensations of ‘feeling’ the music pulse through you.

I listen a lot to Swiss Radio Classics and pay a great deal of attention to the announcers voices. They were recorded in different venues, by different people over a 20 year period.  I have found that these voices provide an excellent barometer on the status of my system. I can tell when a new component is running in and I can detect changes as the burn-in develops. The human voice seems to have 2 high level characteristics….the voice itself and the personal characteristics of the announcer. With the Zenith SE i could not hear much of the very subtle personal elements….the voice was chrystal clear but the subtle influences of body behind the voice wasn’t. With the NG Statement the person behind the voice emerges and you hear a real person vs a finely recorded and reproduced voice. Hopefully I have managed to convey the type of uplift in SQ the NG Statement brings. If your barometer to hi-fi value is the way your systems allows you to respond to the music, how intensely it generates feelings and  emotions and lets you hear the musical message then you’ll love the NG Statement

[matthias]

@Blackmorec

Great post :-)

I am just curious,, what is your percentage listening to streaming services (including Radio Swiss) in comparison to local files?

Thank you

 

Matt

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thank you so much Blackmorec, exactly what I was looking for to better understand how the upgrade can improve my system. And exactly what I was hoping not to hear though, due to my previsional budget!

[matthias]

@Blackmorec

A second question if you may allow:

 

Do you still use your modified TPLink RE650 bridge with the NG Statement or did you found something superior?

Thanks again.

 

Matt

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

@Blackmorec

Great post :-)

I am just curious,, what is your percentage listening to streaming services (including Radio Swiss) in comparison to local files?

Thank you

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

I honestly don’t pay much attention anymore to the source of the music file or its resolution….they all sound wonderful if the recording is good. Having said that I would guess that about 85% is remote (Qobuz/SRC) and 15% are my local CD rips

Cheerio! 

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

@Blackmorec

A second question if you may allow:

 

Do you still use your modified TPLink RE650 bridge with the NG Statement or did you found something superior?

Thanks again.

 

Matt

Hiya Matt,

Yes, I still use the TPLink bridge, powered with a hybrid DC4 ARC6 and all Mundorf Ag/Ag cables.  The sound I’m getting is so natural sounding and beguiling that I don’t feel a lot of motivation to try alternatives 

[str-1]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:57 AM, nvitorino said:

While the OCXO board on the Statement is essentially to improve timing and noise internally to the Statement, the PhoenixNET deals more effectively with external noise and focus on sending a signal as pristine as we can in terms of timing and noise to the Statement. This way, even on the Statement with Next Gen upgrade, we can audibly hear the influence of the PhoenixNet.

Hi Nuno. That’s good to know. I’ll try the PhoenixNET with my Statement.
 

Can you say anything about expectations for how quickly Innuos can upgrade power supplies for existing Statement owners? I’ve been on the list for upgrade since late June.

[nvitorino]

13 hours ago, str-1 said:

Hi Nuno. That’s good to know. I’ll try the PhoenixNET with my Statement.
 

Can you say anything about expectations for how quickly Innuos can upgrade power supplies for existing Statement owners? I’ve been on the list for upgrade since late June.

 

Hi,

 

Regarding upgrades, the issue is the AVC platform as our supplier is struggling to deliver these. We have received a small batch lately so we will progress with some more upgrades but it will take at least 1-2 months until we expect to have our requested batch in full for all upgrades. It's a real struggle every day with the supply chain...

 

You can ping me directly and I'll check where you are in the backlog.

[octaviars]

When I opened this thread in April 2018 that Innuos was releasing the Statement model I would never have thought that I would own one. But in summer 2021 the Statement and a PhoenixNET arrived to my house and for the last couple of weeks I have been enjoying the Next-Gen upgraded Statement.

 

It is a fantastic machine and it sounds wonderful with my TAD equipment 🙂

 

 

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

I pulled the trigger, and just ordered a Statement Next Gen keeping the PhoenixNET as Nuno suggested. My dealer (AV Solution) confirmed Innuos will ship it next week.

Can’t wait.

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thank you @nvitorino, the Statement NG arrived yestarday, what a wonderful Christmas gift! I followed your suggestion and kept in my system the PhoenixNET.

Just out of the box the immediate impression is that the differences (for the better) compared to my previous ZENith MK 3 + PhoenixUSB are not subtle.

Too early to describe anything in these very first hours of listening, so no more words.

Let me just report, accordingly to @Blackmorecabove description, that while playing Wish You Were Here I suddenly felt teardrops falling down my eyes, literally! Audiophile technical terms apart, the way I’m feeling to be in contact with music is surprisingly over my expectations and I hope/imagine that the greatest satisfaction a designer like Nuno can have back from customers is not (only) in terms of sales but most the pure joy, in a totally human emotionally meaning, his creature is able to bring.

Merry Christmas and thanks all, really happy days ahead! 

[kennyb123]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:41 AM, luca.pelliccioli said:

I suddenly felt teardrops falling down my eyes, literally!

No better way to describe an upgrade that really matters.  Congrats!

[luca.pelliccioli]

The Statement is in place!
 
image1920×1440 187 KB

Click to expand...

After having already posted it on PS Audio and WTB forum, I’m reporting here below my first thoughts on the Statement Next Gen less than 250 hours since I introduced it in the chain. I know that this “creature” needs a long burning in process and even after 3 months can provide a final step up. Sorry I’m not so patient!

I prefer describing what I’m able to perceive by numbers more than by words.

The main comparison is between
 

BEFORE = PhoenixNET > ZENith MK 3 > PhoenixUSB > PS Audio DS MK I

and
 

NOW = PhoenixNET > Statement > PS Audio DS MK I

• First (1) I went through the Matrix via I2S (Input #1) where I found the major improvements.
• Secondly (2) I tried without the Matrix, directly connected via USB, where the improvements IME are subtle.

In both cases “+” stays for more or less improvements than Before, “=“ is for same as Before and “-“ is intuitively for more or less degradation than Before.
 

Statement	1 (I2S)	2 (USB)
White noise/Hum	+	=
Background	+++	++
Neutralness	++	=
Image precision	+	=
Soundstage depth	=	=
Soundstage width	+	=
Separation	++	=
Voice	+	=
Highs	=	=
Basses	=	=
Presence	+++	+
Transient	=	=
Clarity	+	=
Airy	++	=
Detail	+	-1
Unveil	++	=
Realism	+++	+
Calm	++	=
Control	+++	+
Engagement	+++	+
	1,55	0,25

My system is shown on profile member, cables used are AQ Diamond USB and PinkFaun USB (all at once the Matrix didn’t like the PF so I continued only with the AQ) + AQ Dragon 48 HDMI. No fuses or tweaks added on the Statement, to create the better scenario to compare similarly the system Now vs Before.

To summarize and finding the main characteristics to share with you:
 

• sonically the black background is really impressive and able to radically change the sound
• without any technical or audiophile words (I’m not qualified to use anyhow) the realism and the engagement that the Statement is able to bring is jaw dropping! I find myself crying literally, it means teardrops not figurative, more than one time. The ability to enter in deep contact with music and rising emotions from my soul is maybe the most important thing I want to report to better describe the Statement and this particular quality is the confirmation I spent well my money. Always IMHO.

 

Soon I will replace the PS Audio DAC MK I with the new MK II, so next days I can experiment how the Statement and the new DAC can work together.

[str-1]

MQA update now available.

[MasonStorm]

Following one of the recent InnuOS System Updates for my STATEMENT (about a month ago), my system has been sounding tinny and hollow, lacking in dynamic range, bass extension, and bass impact. This experience has only been slightly mitigated by another, more recent update from InnuOS, followed by a slightly more healing update from Roon. However, with all the latest updates in place, the system is still far from what it was two months ago. Has anyone else experienced something similar with their STATEMENT? If it matters, I have one of the older models, obtained in 2019. I’m assuming that they are still supporting this model with their software updates, and not just doing so for the newer model - the one with the newer power supply, and other, better internals. My fear is that the updates are all geared toward that newer model, and that when they take effect, this older model might see more and more deleterious effects on its sound.

[nvitorino]

15 hours ago, MasonStorm said:

Following one of the recent InnuOS System Updates for my STATEMENT (about a month ago), my system has been sounding tinny and hollow, lacking in dynamic range, bass extension, and bass impact. This experience has only been slightly mitigated by another, more recent update from InnuOS, followed by a slightly more healing update from Roon. However, with all the latest updates in place, the system is still far from what it was two months ago. Has anyone else experienced something similar with their STATEMENT? If it matters, I have one of the older models, obtained in 2019. I’m assuming that they are still supporting this model with their software updates, and not just doing so for the newer model - the one with the newer power supply, and other, better internals. My fear is that the updates are all geared toward that newer model, and that when they take effect, this older model might see more and more deleterious effects on its sound.

 

Hi,

 

The latest updates should not have any significant impact on sound quality. The only change that has been made is regarding WAV playback in order to support 32bit files (ex: from PGGB) but we didn't notice any impact on sound quality. The updates are done for all models from the Mk2 series upwards and we don't fine tune any settings for Statement compared to Next Gen LPSU. In fact, from a software perspective, we can't distinguish both units. I don't see anything from the update that could affect sound just on the Statement and not others. Feel free to reach out on our Support email and we can do a remote session to have a look at the system and check if we see anything out of place.

 

Best,

 

Nuno

[MasonStorm]

Thank you so much Nuno.  I tried switching over to Innuos Sense mode, restarting, listening for a while, and then switching back to Roon and restarting again cleared things up and did the trick.

[str-1]

Hi Nuno. With a next gen Statement and thinking of finally subscribing to a quality music streaming service (Qobuz) to supplement my large downloaded/ripped music library, should I expect to hear improvements in streamed music quality using a Phoenix Net over and above what I would hear streaming direct into the next gen Statement?  I am actually already using a cascade of quality filters into the Statement (BT Hub into English Electric 8 -> EtherREGEN) but of course I do not expect you to comment on that setup.

 

And assuming that the Phoenix Net does improve over what I already have, either replacing the cascade I use or adding to it, would that improvement feed through to the Statement's ethernet out (Streamer) port? I'm wondering if it would additionally benefit streaming to my smart tv, which I am already feeding from the EtherREGEN to good effect.

 

Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.

[sbilotta]

Hi str-1,

not Nuno but I'll share my 2 cents worth.

I have a Statement NextGen, and several network optimisations feeding a PN, that goes into my Statement.

That PN did provide further uplift to sound quality, hence it is likely (but YMMV, as usual) that it would provide you the same.

Having said that, I was then able to try a second PN within the above config, to see if that too would bring an improvement.

I tried many placements of the second PN; in short, it was very modest at best any perceived improvement i.e. not worth it.

 

Clearly, diminishing returns kick in at a certain point, but I'm confident that with an extra PN just before the Statement, you'll improve the situation.

 

Now for Nuno's feedback :-)

[str-1]

Thanks sbilotta.

 

Would be ideal if I could get my hands on a loan unit to try at home, as I have done with most of my higher value audio devices, but a loan Phoenix Net has been hard to find.

[sbilotta]

If you’re in London, a friend is selling his (and it’s the one I tried) and he might let you try it, if you’re interested.

PM me if you are .

 

Stefano