Innuos ZENith "STATEMENT"

[soares]

5 hours ago, yellowblue said:

Is it just me or does it sound better with 1.47? I didn´t hear any difference between 1.45 and 1.46 but for me it´s more 3D and better sound overall with my Zenith SE plus Phoenix.

Funny as I also felt a small improvement, but I am convinced that came from the eR clock after the burning in process. 

[kennyb123]

10 hours ago, yellowblue said:

Is it just me or does it sound better with 1.47? I didn´t hear any difference between 1.45 and 1.46 but for me it´s more 3D and better sound overall with my Zenith SE plus Phoenix.

 

I thought 1.46 might have offered a slight improvement- and that carried forward into 1.47.

[str-1]

Update on innuOS 2.0 https://innuos.com/inn-sights/

 

I’m looking forward to it.

[tedwoods]

9 hours ago, str-1 said:

Update on innuOS 2.0 https://innuos.com/inn-sights/

 

I’m looking forward to it.

Great news! Looks perfect!

[str-1]

innuOS 1.4.8 available

[tedwoods]

Innuos are certainly keeping their promises, despite the adversities of the times. You've got to give them some credit! This update sounds wonderful and the weekly updates of their version 2.0 O.S. (https://innuos.com/inn-sights/) point to a software that's very promising.

[str-1]

Rollout of InnuOS 2.0 to Statement owners begins Wednesday 30 June https://innuos.com/2021/06/18/weekly-update-jun-18-2021/

[str-1]

Optional next-gen power supply upgrade announced for the Statement.

 

https://innuos.com/statement/

[ASRMichael]

9 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Optional next-gen power supply upgrade announced for the Statement.

 

https://innuos.com/statement/

An extra 5k for new PSU. 16.5k total £££. Getting closer to an extreme. 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Hi all,

 

I’m a newbie here. I have a ZENith Mk 3 + PhoneixNET, I’m loving them but I’m wondering how significan could be the upgrade to the Statement Next Gen.  My system is all PS Audio (DS DAC - BHK Pre ~ M1200s mono ~ P20 PowerPlant …). I’m going USB toI2S from server/streamer to DAC and using Sense App, I found really better than Roon.

 

Any suggestion about it?

 

Two more simple questions for Statement owners:

 

1. Chord or other DC cables: if suggested where can I buy (I’m based in Italy and prefer EU sellers due to taxes costs)

 

2. Managing with lack of room on my (near full) rack, which exactly the high of the Statement (LPS + server units) stacked, exactly 19 cm as reported?

 

thank you.

 

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

While I’m stuck with my decisions about a Statement, I went (for a while) on a different route as a first step. Just added the PhoenixUSB to my system. Wow! It really works!
PhoenixNET > ZENith MK 3 > PhoenixUSB > Matrix > DS DAC
Qobuz streaming via Sense App only.
After less than 2 hours of listening the most important thing I’m clearly noticing is engagement, I’m feeling in contact with the music.
It’s able to elevate the ZENith-DAC performance to a higher level.

I might describe some sonic improvements, but musicality and the way it makes me totally lost in music song after song is the surprising prevalent result now.

Soundstage is wider, very wider. Details, air and separation yes they are remarkably noticeable but delicacy and a never heard before decay are impressive improvements that make music so pleasant this night in my room. All seem so sweet, at the right place and sharp and soft at the same time. No effort in voices to knock the strings of my soul, treble and bass perfectly balanced and a very different presence, realism, naturalness. Simply wonderful.

Sometimes we expect improvements that unfortunately do not happen or are subtle, this time I was a bit skeptical keeping as low as possible my expectations and “wow” I’m really impressed! Highly recommended to all ZENith owners.

I’ve read about burning in time needed due to Mundorf caps in this unit, can’t imagine how this little toy can sound next days if just out of the box is bringing so much!

Too late here to play with different cables and testing the path with or without the Matrix in the chain. Tomorrow evening and during weekend time I will do some test, as soon as the Phoenix is better settled in.

[kennyb123]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:44 PM, luca.pelliccioli said:

 

I’m a newbie here. I have a ZENith Mk 3 + PhoneixNET, I’m loving them but I’m wondering how significan could be the upgrade to the Statement Next Gen.  My system is all PS Audio (DS DAC - BHK Pre ~ M1200s mono ~ P20 PowerPlant …). I’m going USB toI2S from server/streamer to DAC and using Sense App, I found really better than Roon.

 

Any suggestion about it?

I’m a former owner of a Zenith Mk3.  I had opted last year to move to Antipodes instead of moving up the Innuos lineup.  I got a K30.  Priced a lot higher then the Zenith Mk3, but it was worth every penny.  The largest gains were in the areas of tonal density, dynamics, reduced noise, and tonal richness.

 

I have had a demo K50 here for just over a week.  Again a big price increase over what I was using, but holy crap is this thing amazing.  It conveys the energy of a performance in a way I don’t think I’ve heard before.  Listening to Wayne Shorter’s “Speak No Evil” last night, when Shorter and Hubbard both blow it’s the closest I’ve experienced being in the room with the performers.  The energy they put into blowing hard could almost be felt.  The tone and timbre were off the charts as far as realism.

 

As a drummer, what’s most important to me is the realistic reproduction of drums and cymbals.  The K30 absolutely embarrasses the Zenith Mk3 in that area, but the K50 is off the charts.  Rise and fall times are as realistic as I’ve heard.

 

You can tell I’m pretty excited about the K50.  I don’t think you could go wrong with the Statement Next Gen, but if any of the qualities I mentioned are important to you then consider a K50.  It has a smaller footprint too.

 

Chris Cornell is now singing Thank You from his  live album Songbook.  OMG.  The way his voice fills my room just has to be heard to be believed.  

[luca.pelliccioli]

35 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

don’t think you could go wrong with the Statement Next Gen, but if any of the qualities I mentioned are important to you then consider a K50.  It has a smaller footprint too

Thank you for your advice, K50 Grimm Mu1 and Taiko were on my (dream) list.

 

Here in Italy it’s quite difficult to find demos of that units for home trials. Even dealer auditioning nowadays is becoming a challenge.

So I went for Innuos products because a few dealers here made me good offers and are able to give me reasonable value trade in for a Statement. I like SQ and sound signature of Innuos units I’m experiencing, the naturalness, instrument separation, mainly voices and spatial interaction, air and general engagement in music.these are the reasons why I’m looking more at Innuos upgrade than others. I also found Sense App really better than Roon, I was running before, as for sound quality.  Innuos units seem to sound very synergistic with the rest of my components, especially the PS Audio DS DAC (soon MK II upcoming with high expectations).
 

When I find a brand I like, whom values and philosophy I can be confident with, together with valuable customer service… well I tend to stay with their products for a while. PS Audio, Gold Note and Sonus faber or AQ and Iconoclast for instance.

 

Did you try the ZENith MK 3 with both the PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET? I’m wondering how the Statement Next Gen could be an improvement and especially in which qualities compared to my actual set up.

[kennyb123]

9 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

Here in Italy it’s quite difficult to find demos of that units for home trials. Even dealer auditioning nowadays is becoming a challenge.

So I went for Innuos products because a few dealers here made me good offers and are able to give me reasonable value trade in for a Statement. I like SQ and sound signature of Innuos units I’m experiencing, the naturalness, instrument separation, mainly voices and spatial interaction, air and general engagement in music.these are the reasons why I’m looking more at Innuos upgrade than others. I also found Sense App really better than Roon, I was running before, as for sound quality.  Innuos units seem to sound very synergistic with the rest of my components, especially the PS Audio DS DAC (soon MK II upcoming with high expectations).

Innuos makes excellent products.  Even better when you have support of a local dealer. Antipodes ended up working out to be a much better fit for me but I think it makes sense for you to stick with Innuos given what you mentioned.

 

I see that you have an analog front end.  I decided to sell off my analog rig before I purchased the Zenith.  It was initially a Zenith Mk2, but then I later traded for a Zenith Mk3.  There were many improvements over the analog rig that I sold, but the one area it fell short was in tonal density.  Antipodes restored that plus some.

 

9 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

When I find a brand I like, whom values and philosophy I can be confident with, together with valuable customer service… well I tend to stay with their products for a while. PS Audio, Gold Note and Sonus faber or AQ and Iconoclast for instance

I'm like that too.  I've had Aerial speakers since 1995, a Spectral amp since 2002, and Shunyata products for maybe the last 7 years.

 

10 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

 

Did you try the ZENith MK 3 with both the PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET? I’m wondering how the Statement Next Gen could be an improvement and especially in which qualities compared to my actual set up.

From everything I've read, the PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET bring significant improvements are are likely at the top of their class.  But I didn't consider either.  I decided to finally draw the line at the number of boxes.  I have a Quadraspire SVT rack with 4 shelves so space is limited.   My server takes the top shelf and my DAC and Reference clock take up the second shelf with no room to spared.  My power conditioner is on the third shelf but I was also able to squeeze in an EtherRegen plus a Farad Super3.  Lastly the amp takes up the fourth shelf. 

 

The other things I didn't like about the PhoenixUSB was the need for an additional USB cable and power cord.  One really nice thing about the Statement Next Gen is that there is essentially a PhoenixUSB inside the box.  

 

Last thing I'll mention is about the difference power supplies make to the Innuos servers.  As I mentioned I started with the Zenith Mk2 and then swapped it for a Mk3.  The key difference between the Mk2 and Mk3 is the power supply.  The Mk3 was a significant step up from the Mk2.  It was in every way better.  The Statement Next Gen's power supply includes ARC6, which will significantly boost the power supply above what was in the standard Statement.  This will be a beast.   I think you will be tremendously pleased with it.

[Blackmorec]

Hi Kenny, Luca,

Interesting series of posts. Kenny, I was happy you mentioned ‘the energy they put into blowing could almost be felt”. This is exactly the phenomenon I have been posting about ever since I added DC3s then DC4s to my network. The music has so much energy that there’s now a physical side to listening. Not the trouser flapping, huge sub-woofer style, more a solidarity and vibrancy that you often feel at live music events where the sound seems to energise your very being, without itself being hugely loud or penetrating. It just feels like a direct connection from the performer’s instrument to your body.

In my system, key to hearing this effect were Sean Jacobs PSs on the network.

 

The Next Gen upgrade to the Statement is phenomenal. Mine is still running in but there’s already tons of that magic ingredient that make you feel like you’re in the venue with the musicians, 

  

[matthias]

16 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

The Next Gen upgrade to the Statement is phenomenal. Mine is still running in but there’s already tons of that magic ingredient that make you feel like you’re in the venue with the musicians,  

 

BTW, did you manage to listen to the new PULSAR which also has an ARC6 PS?

Thx

 

Matt

[Blackmorec]

Hi Matthias,

No I haven’t heard the Pulsar. I heard the middle of the range Pulse at the North West Audio show and it was one of literally a handful of rooms that was worth a listen, but prevailing show conditions were such that all I can say is that it sounded typically Innuos (very natural, musical, non-digital) and therefore ‘showed’ a lot of promise. 

[luca.pelliccioli]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Kenny, Luca,

.....

 

The Next Gen upgrade to the Statement is phenomenal. Mine is still running in but there’s already tons of that magic ingredient that make you feel like you’re in the venue with the musicians, 

  

Thank you Blackmore,

 

it seems you inherently answered my question about the upgrade I'm evaluating from PhoenixNET > ZENith MK 3 > PhoenixUSB to Next Gen. I don't know if you already experienced this upgrade or you are referring only to the Next Gen compared to old Statement. I appreciate more infos and thoughts able to better drive my decision. Which kind of leap in SQ would be expected if I upgraded the Innuos products in my system (not a cheap step at all, indeed), because I'm liking them so much even in my actual set up.

[nvitorino]

Hi Luca,

 

I  don't usually post around advice topics as I believe other users can provide you less biased opinions but would just like to add one thing: If you decide to go to with a Statement with Next Gen upgrade, this will not replace the PhoenixNET. Contrary to the PhoenixUSB, which the Statement does have integrated directly inside, the PhoenixNET is different from the OCXO board we use to clock the internal Ethernet controller. While the OCXO board on the Statement is essentially to improve timing and noise internally to the Statement, the PhoenixNET deals more effectively with external noise and focus on sending a signal as pristine as we can in terms of timing and noise to the Statement. This way, even on the Statement with Next Gen upgrade, we can audibly hear the influence of the PhoenixNet.

 

This is just to refer your base of comparison should be ZENith + PhoenixUSB compared to Statement Next Gen.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Best,

 

Nuno

[luca.pelliccioli]

Hi Nuno,

 

really thank you for your advice, very useful to go on the right way. I'll take into consideration. In effect you helped me a lot because I'm planning to use the brand new PS Audio AirLens, see here the recent video from Paul McGowan, from the ZENith > PhoenixNET (via ethernet) to the PS Audio DS DAC (via I2S):

https://www.psaudio.com/askpaulvideo/unveiling-the-ps-audio-airlens/

 

You can see in signature my actual system, at the moment I'm temporarily going USB through a Matrix (2), that outperforms IME the USB directly to the DAC (3) connection but next weeks I have to choose between:

1> Ethernet - AirLens - I2S to DAC

2> USB - Matrix - I2S to DAC

3> USB directly to to DAC

 

PS Audio guys know very well Innuos gear, I know, and they firmly suggest an I2S connection to their DS DAC. On the other hand Innuos philosophy tends to prefer USB connections. A sort of dilemma I suppose to solve only by ears, as usual!

 

And, as a consequence of the above points, I need to choose between my actual ZENith+Phoenix and Statement+Phoenix.

I was just wondering how the Statement, in this case, can bring to system compared to my actual ZENith set up.

 

Any suggestion will be very appreciate.

 

Congrats for your products, I'm loving them so much! And your customer service too, really remarkable, well done Nuno!

[matthias]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:02 AM, Blackmorec said:

No I haven’t heard the Pulsar.

 

I have got the impression that the PULSAR will be delayed. Even on the Dutch Audio Event this weekend there will be only comparisons between PULSEmini and PULSE.

 

Matt

[kennyb123]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:29 AM, Blackmorec said:

Interesting series of posts. Kenny, I was happy you mentioned ‘the energy they put into blowing could almost be felt”. This is exactly the phenomenon I have been posting about ever since I added DC3s then DC4s to my network. The music has so much energy that there’s now a physical side to listening. Not the trouser flapping, huge sub-woofer style, more a solidarity and vibrancy that you often feel at live music events where the sound seems to energise your very being, without itself being hugely loud or penetrating. It just feels like a direct connection from the performer’s instrument to your body.

I wish I had your way with words because that’s exactly what I’ve been hearing from the K50.  I’m astonished to hear that taking even further steps with your network resulted in you hearing what you describe.  My mind is blown.

[luca.pelliccioli]

As for the PULSAR I have a doubt. Assuming you already are a ZENith owner, does make sense adding the PULSAR acting as streamer to it (then acting as server only)?

From Innuos website this is a description of the new design of the PULSAR, supposed to improve some aspects:

Quote

Packing a custom ARC6 module with Active Rectification, over 130000  uF of Mundorf Capacitors followed by a Mundorf Silver Gold Oil output cap, a large inductor and a massive 300VA audio-grade toroidal transformer.

The innuOS Operating System’s SSD is also upgraded to a SLC (Single-Level Cell) module, as opposed to the more common TLC (Triple-Level Cell) for the best durability and lower operating power noise. 

Going deeper in my thoughts: I’m wondering if a separation between server (ZENith) and streamer (PULSAR) using Sense App and Roon might be beneficial over the use of a standalone ZENith. I’m not referring to a comparison between the combo ZENith + PhoenixUSB vs PULSAR, where the latter sports a lite version of the reclocker. I’m thinking more to a scenario where the ZENith and the PULSAR are both connected to a PhoenixNET, using LAN only to send music to a DAC with a RJ45 input or to a device like the AirLens with a RJ45 input then connected via I2S to the DAC.

[matthias]

1 hour ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

As for the PULSAR I have a doubt. Assuming you already are a ZENith owner, does make sense adding the PULSAR acting as streamer to it (then acting as server only)?

 

The Pulsar makes perfectly sense for people like me who do not play local files (and do not own a Zenith)) but want the best SQ from streaming services. I do not think that the Pulsar makes sense for people who have a next-gen Statement.

 

Matt

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thank you, and what about people like me that already has a ZENith, what the PULSAR can bring to the sauce? Simply nothing or it might improve the SQ of music streaming (not local files) separating server and steamer? Roon users usually prefer to keep the core separated, I don’t know if this is the case also for Sense App lovers, like me. I’m referring only to a LAN connection between server/streamer/DAC not USB.