Innuos ZENith "STATEMENT"

[kennyb123]

2 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

Consumers shouldn't need to buy additional products from Innuos to improve SQ. The technology should be included already in the server to my mind. At Statement level at the very least. It will be interesting to see if they offer existing owners an upgrade.

 

My understanding is that the USB re-clocker is already found in the Statement - and this device is an upgrade intended for Zenith Std or SE owners.

[kennyb123]

3 hours ago, nvitorino said:

 

P.S. Regarding Roon in experimental mode, squeezelite is called with a different set of parameters compared to when used with iPeng/OrangeSqueeze, etc. This can lead to differences in sound quality. Some may prefer one or the other - this is audio - there is no single universal best...

 

Will there still be an experimental mode or something equivalent to this mode in innuOS 2.0?  Roon’s sound quality really benefits from not having playback performed by Roon itself.

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, nvitorino said:

 

Yes, we plan to keep experimental mode in innuOS2.0.

That's great news - thank you!!!

[kennyb123]

14 hours ago, RikkiPoo said:

How does that work?  using Roon and not having playback performed by Roon itself?  Are you referring to experimental mode?  I am using the Statement as an endpoint, I preferred Experimental Mode to Roon Core and Endpoint on the Statement.  But I also preferred moving the Core off the Statement and up-sampling to DSD 512 to the Experimental Mode.

I

I’m referring to the integration shown below.  It sounds better than the “Use as Roon Core” option.  It’s also more stable as of an update earlier this year.  Thanks @nvitorino

 

 

[kennyb123]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:01 AM, nvitorino said:

 

Starting with the "Innuos control app", what we are doing is revamping the entire OS and not just adding a control app on top of the existing system. The app will be part of innuOS 2.0, which has been in the works for two years now. It is a major difference on the user experience you have now. It's now getting close to Beta release so we will soon start publishing information how it looks and new features, stay tuned.

 

@nvitorinodo you have an ETA on the release of this?  I just switched back to the internal player and it sounds better to me than Roon Experimental mode.  Roon is a noisy beast as far as network chatter and one can really hear the harm it does by switching over as I did.  I’m now eager to hear what innuOS 2.0 will bring to the table.  Exciting times!

[kennyb123]

innuOS 1.4.6 is now available - I'm installing it now.

 

http://www.innuos.com/en/go/release-1-4-6

[kennyb123]

2 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

 

Tried but not seeing the new version on my system

 

 

I was actually re-configuring my music libraries when the message popped up indicating that it's available.  I had just finished deleting my NAS folder so I can start over as I've decided to abandon Roon.

[kennyb123]

28 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

It just showed up for me Kenny. 

 

Wow. Abandoning Roon?  What for?  Did you have a lifetime?

 

Yeah I have a lifetime Roon license, but just this week turned off Roon.  There's been a ton of discussion on the Taiko forum on WBF recently about the new TAS application that's in Alpha test for Extreme users.  The feedback hasn't been kind to Roon at all.  I wanted to revisit again the sound quality improvement from using iPeng against Innuos' Squeezebox implementation.  I had tried this months ago with my Zenith Mk2 but thought I should give it another try with my Mk3, as my chain has improved a lot since then.

 

I've been kind of blown away by how much better the sound quality is with Roon turned off.  I had been using Roon Experimental mode so I figured there wouldn't be that big of a gap, but unfortunately that's not the case.  Some on the Taiko forum have claimed that Roon's sound quality got worse a few updates ago.  I think they may be right.  

 

I do miss Roon Radio, but it's tough for me to go back as I can't un-hear what I've been hearing.  I hope that innuOS 2.0 enhances the user experience and also improves the sound quality further.   I've been amazed at the progress the Taiko team has made in only a very short time as I think they hired a developer only 3-6 months ago. Emile apparently made change on the OS side of things that reduced the impact of network optimizations and their music playing builds upon that.  It seems that most music servers are still only scratching the surface of what's possible to achieve.  

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

Still Taiko them self wrote this.

 

True, but I was going by what Extreme owners were saying.  A few of them have ears I trust more than my own.  My hope was that using Experimental mode would spare me from what they were hearing since Roon isn’t doing the playback.  Certainly Roon Experimental is better than Roon Core - but even better is having Roon turned off.  I am eager to see what @nvitorinounveils as I’m sure he’s well aware of how much better the internal player sound relative to the Roon modes presently.

[kennyb123]

The level of improvement I’m hearing with Roon turned off is the kind of improvement audiophiles would easily shell out money to achieve.  And yet all it cost me was losing Roon’s much better user experience.

 

I intend to use my Roon license to run Roon Core on a Mac.  I have a Chord Poly/Mojo combo for headphone listening.  The Poly is a Roon endpoint.

 

There is an issue with the new firmware in that I can’t update my Tidal credentials.  I haven’t reported it yet.

[kennyb123]

18 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

There is an issue with the new firmware in that I can’t update my Tidal credentials.  I haven’t reported it yet.

 

Per Nuno:
“There was an initial issue with the update that has been resolved now. However, we will need to reinstall the update, which we can do via remote session.”

He took care of that this morning so all is good here now.

[kennyb123]

10 hours ago, yellowblue said:

Is it just me or does it sound better with 1.47? I didn´t hear any difference between 1.45 and 1.46 but for me it´s more 3D and better sound overall with my Zenith SE plus Phoenix.

 

I thought 1.46 might have offered a slight improvement- and that carried forward into 1.47.

[kennyb123]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:44 PM, luca.pelliccioli said:

 

I’m a newbie here. I have a ZENith Mk 3 + PhoneixNET, I’m loving them but I’m wondering how significan could be the upgrade to the Statement Next Gen.  My system is all PS Audio (DS DAC - BHK Pre ~ M1200s mono ~ P20 PowerPlant …). I’m going USB toI2S from server/streamer to DAC and using Sense App, I found really better than Roon.

 

Any suggestion about it?

I’m a former owner of a Zenith Mk3.  I had opted last year to move to Antipodes instead of moving up the Innuos lineup.  I got a K30.  Priced a lot higher then the Zenith Mk3, but it was worth every penny.  The largest gains were in the areas of tonal density, dynamics, reduced noise, and tonal richness.

 

I have had a demo K50 here for just over a week.  Again a big price increase over what I was using, but holy crap is this thing amazing.  It conveys the energy of a performance in a way I don’t think I’ve heard before.  Listening to Wayne Shorter’s “Speak No Evil” last night, when Shorter and Hubbard both blow it’s the closest I’ve experienced being in the room with the performers.  The energy they put into blowing hard could almost be felt.  The tone and timbre were off the charts as far as realism.

 

As a drummer, what’s most important to me is the realistic reproduction of drums and cymbals.  The K30 absolutely embarrasses the Zenith Mk3 in that area, but the K50 is off the charts.  Rise and fall times are as realistic as I’ve heard.

 

You can tell I’m pretty excited about the K50.  I don’t think you could go wrong with the Statement Next Gen, but if any of the qualities I mentioned are important to you then consider a K50.  It has a smaller footprint too.

 

Chris Cornell is now singing Thank You from his  live album Songbook.  OMG.  The way his voice fills my room just has to be heard to be believed.  

[kennyb123]

9 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

Here in Italy it’s quite difficult to find demos of that units for home trials. Even dealer auditioning nowadays is becoming a challenge.

So I went for Innuos products because a few dealers here made me good offers and are able to give me reasonable value trade in for a Statement. I like SQ and sound signature of Innuos units I’m experiencing, the naturalness, instrument separation, mainly voices and spatial interaction, air and general engagement in music.these are the reasons why I’m looking more at Innuos upgrade than others. I also found Sense App really better than Roon, I was running before, as for sound quality.  Innuos units seem to sound very synergistic with the rest of my components, especially the PS Audio DS DAC (soon MK II upcoming with high expectations).

Innuos makes excellent products.  Even better when you have support of a local dealer. Antipodes ended up working out to be a much better fit for me but I think it makes sense for you to stick with Innuos given what you mentioned.

 

I see that you have an analog front end.  I decided to sell off my analog rig before I purchased the Zenith.  It was initially a Zenith Mk2, but then I later traded for a Zenith Mk3.  There were many improvements over the analog rig that I sold, but the one area it fell short was in tonal density.  Antipodes restored that plus some.

 

9 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

When I find a brand I like, whom values and philosophy I can be confident with, together with valuable customer service… well I tend to stay with their products for a while. PS Audio, Gold Note and Sonus faber or AQ and Iconoclast for instance

I'm like that too.  I've had Aerial speakers since 1995, a Spectral amp since 2002, and Shunyata products for maybe the last 7 years.

 

10 hours ago, luca.pelliccioli said:

 

Did you try the ZENith MK 3 with both the PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET? I’m wondering how the Statement Next Gen could be an improvement and especially in which qualities compared to my actual set up.

From everything I've read, the PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET bring significant improvements are are likely at the top of their class.  But I didn't consider either.  I decided to finally draw the line at the number of boxes.  I have a Quadraspire SVT rack with 4 shelves so space is limited.   My server takes the top shelf and my DAC and Reference clock take up the second shelf with no room to spared.  My power conditioner is on the third shelf but I was also able to squeeze in an EtherRegen plus a Farad Super3.  Lastly the amp takes up the fourth shelf. 

 

The other things I didn't like about the PhoenixUSB was the need for an additional USB cable and power cord.  One really nice thing about the Statement Next Gen is that there is essentially a PhoenixUSB inside the box.  

 

Last thing I'll mention is about the difference power supplies make to the Innuos servers.  As I mentioned I started with the Zenith Mk2 and then swapped it for a Mk3.  The key difference between the Mk2 and Mk3 is the power supply.  The Mk3 was a significant step up from the Mk2.  It was in every way better.  The Statement Next Gen's power supply includes ARC6, which will significantly boost the power supply above what was in the standard Statement.  This will be a beast.   I think you will be tremendously pleased with it.

[kennyb123]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:29 AM, Blackmorec said:

Interesting series of posts. Kenny, I was happy you mentioned ‘the energy they put into blowing could almost be felt”. This is exactly the phenomenon I have been posting about ever since I added DC3s then DC4s to my network. The music has so much energy that there’s now a physical side to listening. Not the trouser flapping, huge sub-woofer style, more a solidarity and vibrancy that you often feel at live music events where the sound seems to energise your very being, without itself being hugely loud or penetrating. It just feels like a direct connection from the performer’s instrument to your body.

I wish I had your way with words because that’s exactly what I’ve been hearing from the K50.  I’m astonished to hear that taking even further steps with your network resulted in you hearing what you describe.  My mind is blown.

[kennyb123]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:41 AM, luca.pelliccioli said:

I suddenly felt teardrops falling down my eyes, literally!

No better way to describe an upgrade that really matters.  Congrats!