Stereophile (TEN) Sold to AVTech Media Ltd (UK)

[Brinkman Ship]

4 minutes ago, firedog said:

No, it was considered a separate entity, with ML as the editor. 

If that is the case, I stand corrected, either way, they were both owned by the same media company.

[Brinkman Ship]

10 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I'm with @LawrenceDavid here.

 

A. Celebrating people losing their livelihoods is in extremely questionable taste. 

 

B. Your celebrating a corporate takeover that doesn't for one second even pretend to put us first. It's a money thing, not a vindication of your vitriol towards MQA. 

 

C. Regardless of whether you are pro or anti MQA (I'm undecided BTW) the merger of publishing and reduction of sources for independent views (whether you agree with them or not) is a loss to the community. 

 

@Brinkman Ship I've read a lot of your posts and you are clearly a knowledgeable and intelligent guy. But this debunk MQA at all costs lowers any authority you might want to establish. History will tell dude. No need to be so zealous.

 

While you make some elegant, and politically correct points, you are free to wish all parties the best, and I am free to not do that. ML treated people with disrespect, keep that in mind.

 

And more importantly..Economic realities are just that...reality. Their owners divested because they were underperforming, and out of step.

 

I had and no one here had anything to with it. Yes, maybe my comments are not in the best taste, but neither was ML and Sphile's dishonest endorsement of MQA>

[JoeWhip]

1 hour ago, LawrenceDavid said:

Hooray! Let’s all celebrate people losing their livelihoods because of another bullshit buyout. Let’s throw a party to celebrate the people that work incredibly hard creating the articles we analyze and fight over are now unemployed. Let’s get together and hope their families also get really ill and they all lose their health insurance!

What the actual fuck? Anyone happy about this should be ashamed.

You people are horrible. Disagree all you want with writers. These folks are still human beings. This isn’t a victory for anyone.  Shame on you. 

 

I wish the absolute best for ML, JD, and RB the best in their future endeavors- and anyone who wants to celebrate the news of their departure can go right ahead and fuck off. 

 

Happy Saturday.

 

 

 

 

Agree completely.

[crenca]

1 hour ago, LawrenceDavid said:

Anyone happy about this should be ashamed.

You people are horrible. Disagree all you want with writers. These folks are still human beings. This isn’t a victory for anyone.  Shame on you. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I'm with @LawrenceDavid here.

 

A. Celebrating people losing their livelihoods is in extremely questionable taste. 

 

B. Your celebrating a corporate takeover that doesn't for one second even pretend to put us first. It's a money thing, not a vindication of your vitriol towards MQA. 

 

C. Regardless of whether you are pro or anti MQA (I'm undecided BTW) the merger of publishing and reduction of sources for independent views (whether you agree with them or not) is a loss to the community. 

 

@Brinkman Ship I've read a lot of your posts and you are clearly a knowledgeable and intelligent guy. But this debunk MQA at all costs lowers any authority you might want to establish. History will tell dude. No need to be so zealous.

 

 

@LawrenceDavid, your moralistic finger wagging ain't going to work because A) ML is not a "nice guy" B) It's just a job - he can go get another one C) ML really was nasty to more than a few of the regulars around here D) He too often supported products/causes that are truly not in the interest of anyone excepting those who make a few bucks off them.  

 

I personally don't wish him ill, though I do hope for his reform.  Prison is not quite the place, but surely some sort of Audiophile purgatory is...maybe a job flippin burgers?

 

@BigAIMc

 

A)  He has not "lost his livelihood", it's a mere shift - you will see him soon enough...maybe at the next audio show you attend demoing some magic cable or other or perhaps Synergistic Research black boxes

 

B)  Corporations are not the problem, Voodoo Corporations are

 

C) Just any "independent" review won't do - it really has to be independent.  ML's views were standard Audiophile drivel.  A multiplicity of drivel is not a good in of itself.

 

 

[Brinkman Ship]

2 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

@LawrenceDavid, your moralistic finger wagging ain't going to work because A) ML is not a "nice guy" B) It's just a job - he can go get another one C) ML really was nasty to more than a few of the regulars around here D) He too often supported products/causes that are truly not in the interest of anyone excepting those who make a few bucks off them.  

 

I personally don't wish him ill, though I do hope for his reform.  Prison is not quite the place, but surely some sort of Audiophile purgatory is...maybe a job flippin burgers?

 

@BigAIMc

 

A)  He has not "lost his livelihood", it's a mere shift - you will see him soon enough...baybe at the next audio show you attend demoing some magic cable or  other or perhaps Synergistic Research black boxes

 

B)  Corporations are not the problem, Voodoo Corporations are

 

C) Just any "independent" review won't do - it really has to be independent.  ML's views were standard Audiophile drivel.  A multiplicity of drivel is not a good in of itself.

 

 

To quote Meatloaf...You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth...

[Ralf11]

I bet ML can get a job as a logger, based on his video resume showing his ability to handle an axe 

[BigAlMc]

18 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

While you make some elegant, and politically correct points, you are free to wish all parties the best, and I am free to not do that. ML treated people with disrespect, keep that in mind.

 

Now I'm annoyed! 

 

I wasn't being elegant or politically correct. I was being polite. And not because I had to, but because its what I believe in. 

 

But if you want to take the gloves off then let's. I was trying not to be a dick. You could do with trying the same. 

 

ML may (or may not) have got it wrong re MQA. But regardless of that he has spent his career writing enthusiastically about our passion. I don't think for a second this was to chase the big money. I believe this was a vocation. But that's open to debate. 

 

MQA may or may not turn out to be a pile of crap. Regardless, its one fairly minor aspect of our hobby. Would you wish unemployment on anyone who argued USB was a fraud and AES was the ONLY way to go?

 

Take a deep breath and a chill pill. You hate MQA. We get it. Arguing ML and the likes deserve to lose their jobs is not an appropriate response and is beneath you. 

 

I'll meet you for a fist fight if you still think I'm being politically correct 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

16 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

@BigAIMc

 

A)  He has not "lost his livelihood", it's a mere shift - you will see him soon enough...maybe at the next audio show you attend demoing some magic cable or other or perhaps Synergistic Research black boxes

 

Fair enough. 

 

It's the toxic sentiment I object to. 

 

If we are to stop reading reviews for being overly enthusiastic then we're done I think. 

[crenca]

8 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

It's the toxic sentiment I object to. 

 

 

I get it. 

 

On the other hand, so much and so many in this industry are frauds (not saying ML is - he believe what he says..probably...maybe...does it matter?).  Really, much of this stuff would be illegal if the market was big enough to draw attention from stretched-too-thin consumer protection agencies.  What else do we consumers have except each other, and since the gloves are already off when it comes to manufacturers and these trade publications, what are we to do?  "play nice" and "play by the rules"??

 

Still I get it, you don't want to wallow the with pigs such that you become just like them...

[crenca]

16 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Take a deep breath and a chill pill. You hate MQA. We get it. Arguing ML and the likes deserve to lose their jobs is not an appropriate response and is beneath you. 

 

 

 

Actually, I think more than a few folks deserve exactly that - to lose their jobs.  I suspect some of them deserve to be investigated by a handful of Euro and NA governmental agencies, and for them to issue real civil penalties (prison is probably going too far).

 

Thank our lucky stars, most of us rarely get what we deserve!

[rickca]

Is there actual confirmation somewhere about who, if anyone, is losing their job or is this just speculation?

 

Anyway, the position of White House Communications Director is open.  

[Miska]

I've been happy subscriber and reader of Stereophile for a long time.

 

I may not agree with all things written there, but I don't like to take opinions and work to personal level. I have nothing personal against JA or ML. I have not met JA, but I have met ML in real life couple of times and he is a nice person.

 

These kind of acquisitions happen, and sometimes they are for good. Sometimes they don't go as planned. But anyway I hope it is all for the better and I don't have a take on any possible personnel decisions.

 

I hope we can discuss about audio things without taking it to a personal level.

 

[Speedskater]

2 hours ago, LawrenceDavid said:

Hooray! Let’s all celebrate people losing their livelihoods because of another bullshit buyout.

Other than JA, how many other writers depend on Stereophile for their livelihood?

I thought that most write so that they will be treated as VIP's at hi-fi shows and to get lots of expensive loaner equipment.

[cjf]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Now I'm annoyed! 

 

I'll meet you for a fist fight if you still think I'm being politically correct  

Lol...probably one of the funniest things I've seen written here in a long time, I love it! 

[Brinkman Ship]

1 hour ago, cjf said:

Lol...probably one of the funniest things I've seen written here in a long time, I love it! 

I agree...

[Brinkman Ship]

4 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Other than JA, how many other writers depend on Stereophile for their livelihood?

I thought that most write so that they will be treated as VIP's at hi-fi shows and to get lots of expensive loaner equipment.

I believe that Michael Fremer, Art Dudley, Jana D, and few others were the only full time employees. All other writers were contractors. If anyone has any info that is different, feel free to correct. I am unsure about Reichert.

[GregWormald]

Magazines (at least partly) exist to make money. If writers write what isn't selling the magazine then they are (at least partly) not performing.

[monteverdi]

I wonder what is happening to innerfidelity. I thought Tyll always gave more consistent reviews compared to the sister publications.

[mrvco]

Would love to see what shows up in the [email protected] inbox over the next few weeks 

[Brinkman Ship]

What a way to end the weekend..check out a post on this thread, then Michael Fremer's response...WOW!

 

Post:

 

"Stereophile and AnalogPlanet are little more than trade "advertorial" vehicles. I would guess that Steve Guttenberg, through his videos and articles on CNet, drives much more traffic on his own than all of the writers combined on Stereophile and AP.

Fremer response:

 

In the old days, for calling my HONEST hard work in Stereophile (including a good share of negative reviews) and in my website AnalogPlanet little more than trade "advertorials" I'd respond by telling you to go **** yourself.

But I've since mellowed. So instead I'll say GO **** YOURSELF.

What's more, your "guess" about Steve's traffic compared to our combined traffic is nothing more than ASS JUICE you should wipe up.

Now after essentially calling me corrupt, it's your turn to act all offended and write that me telling you to GO **** YOURSELF is "proof" that you've hit a nerve and what you've charged must be true.

I'm used to dealing with irresponsible, so predictable ****bags like you who spout off but have never actually READ what I write because had you, you'd not have posted such puss."

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/stereophile-and-related-sites-sold-layoffs-have-begun.744070/

 

[Brinkman Ship]

Here is Michael's post to me:

 

"Michael Fremer here:

The comments here indicate a lack of knowledge and/or understanding of publishing and business in general. Aside from some particularly insulting comments calling Stereophile and my website "little more than advertorials" there's a lot of hysteria and ridiculous speculation so let's all calm down and understand what's happened.

The new owners took a look at the spreadsheets and the numbers and here's what they found: they bought the group because it makes money.

It is a successful overall enterprise led by Stereophile which is probably the most, or among the world's most successful audio magazines with a print circulation in excess of 70,000 subscribers. Stereophile unlike its only print competition is an audited book. Stereophile's web traffic is enormous as any of its many advertisers will tell you—in the hundreds of thousands of page hits monthly (or whatever term is normally used to measure traffic).

The new owners made some decisions based on the numbers. Numbers don't lie. Some parts of the group are more successful than others. That doesn't mean everyone who remains agrees with everything that was done but that's not the point. Stereophile will remain healthy. In fact it will be healthier. People panicking here about losing subscription money ($12 or so?) are just been hysterical.

Tyll Hertsens' InnerFidelity headphone-based site has extremely good traffic and advertiser support. Tyll has long been considered one of the leading headphone authorities and has been since long before the recent 'headphone craze'. He's not going anywhere.

Speaking personally my website, AnalogPlanet started strong and has shown healthy growth every year over the past six years. AnalogPlanet's YouTube channel has more than 15,000 subscribers. Stereophile has been doing a series of videos showing reviewers' rooms. The one of my room shot by Jana Dagdagan is approaching 200,000 views.

I was extremely upset that Jana was let go. I think it was a mistake. Perhaps the new owners will reconsider. She was just over to my place last week and we shot a few hours' worth of video. One, a review of Pro-Ject's VC-S cleaning machine was edited before the surprise layoffs and in the one day it's been up on the YouTube channel it has more than 5000 views.

Robert Baird has had a long run at Stereophile and I don't know why he's been let go. Certainly not for cause. His end of mag column was always great. On the other hand, IMO some of the reviewers he had, while good writers and musically knowledgeable, had no audiophile creds and so weren't capable of telling reader whether the recording was great or meh. Yes, it's about the music. But it's foremost an audio magazine so sound matters in a review. My guess is that the magazine derives zero income from the record industry (such that there is today) and so the cost/benefit ratio of having a well-paid long at the mag music editor as seen by those in charge was extremely low.

I'm also sorry to see Mike Lavorgna go. I don't know what's going to happen to the AudioStream site he ran but let's be honest about one thing: computer audio (and by that I mean downloading files) is going away. Streaming is taking over. Perhaps the new owners looked at the numbers. One number is that the AudioStream YouTube channel has 574 subscribers. I have noticed that some of the other "computer audio" sites are diversifying and moving away from strictly computer audio. That includes the excellent site run by John Darko. He notes that Oppo has thrown in the towel and will no longer be making disc-based products. So perhaps the new owners are looking forward and see less of a need for a "computer audio" site since Stereophile already covers streaming audio products both online and in print. I'm just speculating there.

I'm trying to be HONEST here. It might even get me in trouble. At this point after doing this for 30+ years I care more about leveling with people especially in light of some of the hysteria here. However, when someone talks **** about me like that clown who called my site an "advertorial" you'd better believe there will be strong blowback!"

 

my response:

 

"Thank you very much for your informative reply.

-I certainly don't agree with any "insulting" posts posted here

-I agree completely that letting Baird go is a terrible idea. I think he was great.
-Jana D had a great future..agree there as well.

-Totally disagree about "computer audio"...but even IF streaming is the future..you still need a computer or a streamer and a DAC...hence..computer audio.

IMO...You can never get into "trouble" by being honest, so thanks for speaking your mind. "

 

and

 

"I might add, that it is only natural that your comments specific to the sale are going to have a certain spin, and I do NOT mean that in a negative way..

Others have commented that your group was not in line with T.E.N.'s financial goals, and the company that purchased you is really rather small...just to give another view of things.

I did post here further up that I did not believe anything would happen to Stereophile..personnel changes, sure, but the magazine is not going anywhere, and readers should not panic."

 

 

[mrvco]

6 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

What a way to end the weekend..check out a post on this thread, then Michael Fremer's response...WOW!

 

Post:

 

"Stereophile and AnalogPlanet are little more than trade "advertorial" vehicles. I would guess that Steve Guttenberg, through his videos and articles on CNet, drives much more traffic on his own than all of the writers combined on Stereophile and AP.

Fremer response:

 

In the old days, for calling my HONEST hard work in Stereophile (including a good share of negative reviews) and in my website AnalogPlanet little more than trade "advertorials" I'd respond by telling you to go **** yourself.

But I've since mellowed. So instead I'll say GO **** YOURSELF.

What's more, your "guess" about Steve's traffic compared to our combined traffic is nothing more than ASS JUICE you should wipe up.

Now after essentially calling me corrupt, it's your turn to act all offended and write that me telling you to GO **** YOURSELF is "proof" that you've hit a nerve and what you've charged must be true.

I'm used to dealing with irresponsible, so predictable ****bags like you who spout off but have never actually READ what I write because had you, you'd not have posted such puss."

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/stereophile-and-related-sites-sold-layoffs-have-begun.744070/

 

 

So obviously that post was removed by a mod, but it boggles the mind how he could think that vitriolic response to an otherwise forgettable comment helps his or his employer's cause in any way.

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

I'm also sorry to see Mike Lavorgna go. I don't know what's going to happen to the AudioStream site he ran but let's be honest about one thing: computer audio (and by that I mean downloading files) is going away. Streaming is taking over.

-Totally disagree about "computer audio"...but even IF streaming is the future..you still need a computer or a streamer and a DAC...hence..computer audio.

 

Yeah, "streamers" are computers, just single-purpose ones. And I don't think downloads are going anywhere either.

 

The fact that these old school magazines refuse to recognize computers, software and computer audio in general as growing part of HiFi scene is certainly one of their biggest losses. They try to behave like such thing doesn't exist and by behaving so hoping it'll go away. Stereophile to lesser extent than some others though. But probably they do it because "computer audio companies" don't advertise much on print press (*). And reviewing computer audio things is not as simple as reviewing a simple single box solution like an amplifier.

 

*) Advertising on print press is very expensive and reach if fairly limited, and for example I simply don't have money for such...

[eclectic]

I think the departure of certain staff from Audiostream was inevitable. The last year has seen the editor openly attacking his own readers and potential customers of the companies that advertise in the TEN journals. 

 

The business reality is that this had to stop. It reminded me of the bad attitudes and superiority from staff that was very evident if you visited HiFi stores 20 or 30 years ago. Add the MQA debacle into the mix, with the consequent lack of trust for the magazines seen across almost all the forums. It's no surprise the new owners acted fast.

 

I'm sure nobody wants to see people lose their jobs but I think those involved have played a part in bringing this on themselves. Sad but true..

 

[Brinkman Ship]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yeah, "streamers" are computers, just single-purpose ones. And I don't think downloads are going anywhere either.

 

The fact that these old school magazines refuse to recognize computers, software and computer audio in general as growing part of HiFi scene is certainly one of their biggest losses. They try to behave like such thing doesn't exist and by behaving so hoping it'll go away. Stereophile to lesser extent than some others though. But probably they do it because "computer audio companies" don't advertise much on print press (*). And reviewing computer audio things is not as simple as reviewing a simple single box solution like an amplifier.

 

*) Advertising on print press is very expensive and reach if fairly limited, and for example I simply don't have money for such...

Yes, I found it mystifying that MF thinks that "computer audio" is a thing of the past and is confined to "downloads"..

 

I mean talk about out of touch....

 

If he returns I want to ask him if his "evaluation" and comments about MQA were "HONEST"....