Article: Introducing Tonal: A Minimalist Music App for Collectors and Audiophiles

[ednaz]

Interesting set of ideas. I worked on similar ideas around corporate knowledge assets and knowledge management.  In a big corporation, any given presentation may be stored thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times. Some of those versions deviate from the original - some minor and harmless, some totally unauthorized and inappropriate. Using asset discovery applications, we found that way over half of corporate storage footprints (can't share actual numbers... project is ongoing) were consumed by those replicated assets. We found that with a "customization veneer" - which stores my personal speaker's notes for some presentation, and that when it's served to me it should have certain pages removed, since I deleted them in my version - we could get even more efficient in storage footprints. So, I get what you're doing on the back end with single stored asset, key based access. A couple requirements from me based on having had to think this through in another context.

 

We weren't just trying to shrink centralized storage footprints (since storage is so cheap... but corporations are so cost cutting focused.) A bigger goal was to shrink edge devices - why should I need a 1tb hard drive on my laptop? Why a laptop? That was part of an even bigger goal, which was the ability to use a wide range of endpoint devices. Why should I carry anything other than my mobile phone? Or, I may LOVE having two phones, two laptops, and a tablet. (Yes, we found several people who liked living that way.) So, think about a variety of endpoints. I should be able to get my music to and from any device.

 

I share this part of the goals because it's turned out to be a hard one for us, in today's world. Network quality is not evenly distributed, nor are networks ubiquitous enough. Closer to your project, I listen to Radio Paradise on my mobile by caching, since I can't count on being able to stream while I'm in my car, on an airplane, in the subway. My concern with the model of Tonal is that an awful lot of my listening is done in offline mode not by choice. Key requirement for me. Stream AND store.

 

As to the customization veneer - I've got experience with Roon now, and one of the things I dislike is metadata standardization that doesn't match my mental model for organizing music. "World music" is a meaninglessly vague high level category to me, and assigning an artist to pop, rock, alternative rock, R&B, blues, etc. in a standard way sounds nice, but there are New Orleans artists who could be put in every one of those... but in my mental model aren't any of them - they're in one of four or five categories of New Orleans music. I divide "classical" into six categories. My metadata categorization when I use JRiver is very personal (maybe even quirky) but it allows me to quickly find what I want to listen to, and quickly assemble playlists. So, I want to be able to selectively over-ride, or add my own layer, to metadata.

 

A thought about back end security and data integrity, which people (rightfully) brought up. The approach we landed on was secure slice object storage. Extremely efficient (no replicant copies required), and insanely resilient, because it stores object slices across an array of clouds, internal or external or both. The minimum number of disks/servers is quite high for your current work, but at scale I think you'd be in a "mid size" environment.

 

Unfortunately my two Mac laptops are both in repair for the second time each... but once I get one of them back, I'll give Tonal a try.

[DaQi]

Love this concept and will read more about it in the referenced papers. I wish I could try it and provide feedback but as a Windows person that is not possible right now. I will watch this with interested. I want to second two concerns that have been brought up but which I think are crucial for success in this. 

 

1. Metadata can be very personal and challenging as one of the previous commenters said different people may have a different level of categorization that is meaningful to them. I was intrigued years ago with what Pandora was doing with their categorization which seemed to get at some of the basest of categories that would be useful. Not sure what you are using for metadata but is there a chance for some very low level granular type of categories that would be more universally useful. 
2. Offline listening. A reason why I have not jumped on the streaming bandwagon and still buy my music is that I listen to a lot of music offline and maintaining that option is critical to me. Are you planning any capability for that in the future where part of a library or even a copy of a library could be maintained offline?

 

Watching with interest how this develops. 

[baoshan]

10 hours ago, ednaz said:

Interesting set of ideas. I worked on similar ideas around corporate knowledge assets and knowledge management.  In a big corporation, any given presentation may be stored thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times. Some of those versions deviate from the original - some minor and harmless, some totally unauthorized and inappropriate. Using asset discovery applications, we found that way over half of corporate storage footprints (can't share actual numbers... project is ongoing) were consumed by those replicated assets. We found that with a "customization veneer" - which stores my personal speaker's notes for some presentation, and that when it's served to me it should have certain pages removed, since I deleted them in my version - we could get even more efficient in storage footprints. So, I get what you're doing on the back end with single stored asset, key based access. A couple requirements from me based on having had to think this through in another context.

 

We weren't just trying to shrink centralized storage footprints (since storage is so cheap... but corporations are so cost cutting focused.) A bigger goal was to shrink edge devices - why should I need a 1tb hard drive on my laptop? Why a laptop? That was part of an even bigger goal, which was the ability to use a wide range of endpoint devices. Why should I carry anything other than my mobile phone? Or, I may LOVE having two phones, two laptops, and a tablet. (Yes, we found several people who liked living that way.) So, think about a variety of endpoints. I should be able to get my music to and from any device.

 

I share this part of the goals because it's turned out to be a hard one for us, in today's world. Network quality is not evenly distributed, nor are networks ubiquitous enough. Closer to your project, I listen to Radio Paradise on my mobile by caching, since I can't count on being able to stream while I'm in my car, on an airplane, in the subway. My concern with the model of Tonal is that an awful lot of my listening is done in offline mode not by choice. Key requirement for me. Stream AND store.

 

As to the customization veneer - I've got experience with Roon now, and one of the things I dislike is metadata standardization that doesn't match my mental model for organizing music. "World music" is a meaninglessly vague high level category to me, and assigning an artist to pop, rock, alternative rock, R&B, blues, etc. in a standard way sounds nice, but there are New Orleans artists who could be put in every one of those... but in my mental model aren't any of them - they're in one of four or five categories of New Orleans music. I divide "classical" into six categories. My metadata categorization when I use JRiver is very personal (maybe even quirky) but it allows me to quickly find what I want to listen to, and quickly assemble playlists. So, I want to be able to selectively over-ride, or add my own layer, to metadata.

 

A thought about back end security and data integrity, which people (rightfully) brought up. The approach we landed on was secure slice object storage. Extremely efficient (no replicant copies required), and insanely resilient, because it stores object slices across an array of clouds, internal or external or both. The minimum number of disks/servers is quite high for your current work, but at scale I think you'd be in a "mid size" environment.

 

Unfortunately my two Mac laptops are both in repair for the second time each... but once I get one of them back, I'll give Tonal a try.

 

Hi ednaz,

 

It’s wonderful to read your thoughts, on storage management, security, and metadata.

 

1. Files of proprietary format are stored in a content addressable cloud storage. The keys to access these files are stored in your personal iCloud space. This combination (currently) ensures the security. I am open to decentralized storage solutions such as Sia, Maidsafe, etc. in the future.
2. Local caching of selected albums is on the todo list. This feature is more important on iOS (mobile) devices.
3. For metadata customization, Tonal will introduce a tagging system on top of the standardized metadata engine. The tagging system enables you to set predefined color codes, sub-genres, or possibly anything you can imagine. You can assign albums to tags just as the Finder app of macOS does.

 

I encourage you to give Tonal a try and share your feeling when you have a working Mac with you.

 

Thanks again,

Baoshan

[baoshan]

4 hours ago, DaQi said:

Love this concept and will read more about it in the referenced papers. I wish I could try it and provide feedback but as a Windows person that is not possible right now. I will watch this with interested. I want to second two concerns that have been brought up but which I think are crucial for success in this. 

 

1. Metadata can be very personal and challenging as one of the previous commenters said different people may have a different level of categorization that is meaningful to them. I was intrigued years ago with what Pandora was doing with their categorization which seemed to get at some of the basest of categories that would be useful. Not sure what you are using for metadata but is there a chance for some very low level granular type of categories that would be more universally useful. 
2. Offline listening. A reason why I have not jumped on the streaming bandwagon and still buy my music is that I listen to a lot of music offline and maintaining that option is critical to me. Are you planning any capability for that in the future where part of a library or even a copy of a library could be maintained offline?

 

Watching with interest how this develops. 

 

Dear DaQi,

 

I am still obsessed with the idea of a high-quality, simple, standardized, community-driven metadata source which could satisfy more than 90% of users.

 

Tonal will introduce a tagging system on top of the standardized metadata database. The tagging system enables you to set predefined color codes, sub-genres, or possibly anything you can imagine. You can assign albums to tags just as the Finder app of macOS does.

 

Local caching of selected albums is on the todo list. This feature is more important on iOS (mobile) devices.

 

Thanks,

Baoshan

 

 

 

[Umetaro]

Great concept and I love the sound!

I noticed a few issues.

1. App changes the volume of the amp.  I use Devialet AIR function of Devialet 800 and Tonal somehow changes the volume (very loud) when starting music.

2. It takes about 30 min to rip one CD.  I ripped 7 discs and one of them failed.

3. My music data is stored in AIFF.  AIFF support would be great.

 

 

[baoshan]

1 hour ago, Umetaro said:

Great concept and I love the sound!

I noticed a few issues.

1. App changes the volume of the amp.  I use Devialet AIR function of Devialet 800 and Tonal somehow changes the volume (very loud) when starting music.

2. It takes about 30 min to rip one CD.  I ripped 7 discs and one of them failed.

3. My music data is stored in AIFF.  AIFF support would be great.

 

 

1

 

Hi Umetaro,

 

Thank you very for your feedback!

 

Re: Volume issue on Devialet AIR

Please try this new build and see if the issue is resolved.

https://binaries.ton.al/app/Tonal-20180409.zip

 

Re: Ripping speed

How fast is it when ripping via XLD? Can the failed disc be ripped by XLD and pass AccurateRip verification?

 

Re: AIFF support

AIFF is already supported. Try to collect some of your lossless discs in AIFF format and let me know if something goes wrong.

 

Thanks again.

[bobfa]

I am sort of confused.  I run your software you then "process it" and upload it to your AWS account.  I have no control.  

 

If you disappear how will I get my data back?  

 

By uploading the music to your account I am most likely in violation of the license I have for the music.    

 

What prevents you or some other user from "absconding" with the music I put into your service?  

 

Where are the Terms of Service for your system?

 

I will not  even get into the problems with ISP data caps, or privacy, or safety?

 

[baoshan]

35 minutes ago, bobfa said:

I am sort of confused.  I run your software you then "process it" and upload it to your AWS account.  I have no control.  

 

If you disappear how will I get my data back?  

 

By uploading the music to your account I am most likely in violation of the license I have for the music.    

 

What prevents you or some other user from "absconding" with the music I put into your service?  

 

Where are the Terms of Service for your system?

 

I will not  even get into the problems with ISP data caps, or privacy, or safety?

 

 

Hi bobfa,

 

Thank you very much for your wonderful question! I’ll do my best to make everything clear and you’ll be the one who makes the decision.

 

Suppose you have some private pictures taken during your winter holidays, you want to secure them safely and browse them later to have great memories. Dropbox or iCloud drive is a perfect choice (Dropbox uses AWS to some extent).

 

If we omit the benefits that the pre-processing stage brings, the new metadata engine, and the playback engine designed for audiophile, Tonal functions exactly like “Dropbox for lossless music”.

 

When I use Dropbox 10 years ago, I’m also concerned about the exact question you mentioned. Basically, every service you used (LinkedIn, GitHub) faces the exact same issue. Dropbox is listed in NASDAQ last month. If it goes bankrupt, I may have some time to get my photos back (finger crossed).

 

Here’s the technical detail on storage:

 

1. Your music is optimized/transcoded/sliced into a proprietary format, on your own mac.
2. These files are uploaded and stored in a content addressable cloud storage (Amazon S3).
3. The keys (very small) to access your files are stored in your personal iCloud space.

 

Above approach ensures the security for:

 

1. Nobody else has the key to your audio file on the cloud storage (guaranteed by iCloud).
2. The file stored is in a proprietary format, only Tonal can read it.

 

For privacy, Tonal is even better: we do not know your name, your email account, your password. This layer of privacy is offered by iCloud.

 

When technology evolves, I’m open to decentralized storage solution which totally eliminates any 3rd party between you and your content. But for now, I wish I could focus on something more important.

 

I honor the opportunity to present my thoughts to the community, I’ll NOT do anything stupid. I just want to mention 2 things:
 

1. Any local music player can upload your music to somewhere else (in the background) if she is evil.
2. Ripping your disc and saving it to Dropbox does not violate your license in most countries.

 

Please correct me if I’m missing something. I know trust is hard to build, but I’m in the industry for 10 years, I’ll not ruin it stupidly.

 

Have a nice day,

Baoshan

[Sounds2Good]

This sounds like a terrific approach for storing lossless audio files. As a blind audiophile and computer user I am always concerned about the accessibility of the software packages I use. I use Mac and IOS products because the screen reading technology, Voice Over, is included with the operating systems on these devices. Your presentation of the files in graphical formats in your description of Tonal and in replies to posts here suggests that your software may not be accessible to Voice Over. If it is VO accessible, I'll be happy to download the software and attempt to evaluate it. If the Tonal software is not accessible with VO, then I'd like you to consider making it accessible before development has progressed to the point where that might be too costly for you.

 

Thank you very much for considering this request.

[baoshan]

11 minutes ago, Sounds2Good said:

This sounds like a terrific approach for storing lossless audio files. As a blind audiophile and computer user I am always concerned about the accessibility of the software packages I use. I use Mac and IOS products because the screen reading technology, Voice Over, is included with the operating systems on these devices. Your presentation of the files in graphical formats in your description of Tonal and in replies to posts here suggests that your software may not be accessible to Voice Over. If it is VO accessible, I'll be happy to download the software and attempt to evaluate it. If the Tonal software is not accessible with VO, then I'd like you to consider making it accessible before development has progressed to the point where that might be too costly for you.

 

Thank you very much for considering this request.

2

 

Hi Sounds2Good,

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

Sorry for Tonal is not VoiceOver compatible yet. Thank you for pointing out the issue in such an early stage. I believe a well designed and architectured application should incorporate VO technology easily. I promise you to support VO and message you the progress once Tonal is ready to move forward.

 

Regards,

Baoshan

[earsandeyes]

Intriguing concept.

Few questions:

-When I switch from one OSX device to another on the same iCloud account, will the(my) database com along automaticly?

 

-Within my house I do schare my server based music with other family members. We have individual iCloud accounts, not a family account. How should we operate to make that work EASY?

 

Thanks,

 

Regards

Michiel

 

 

[jaspal kallar]

I tried it out tonight on 2 albums (same artist) from my iTunes Library (ripped with XLD) on my Imac 21.5 (mid 2010).  

 

The 2 albums sound better than Audirvana Plus 3,2 using headphones. Quieter background, more separation with instruments, voices sound more authentic. I like the clean interface. So well done!!

 

One thing the Imac bluetooth keyboard music keys are non responsive, eg can't change the volume or choose next or previous tracks.

 

When the iOS version comes, do you know how much bandwidth it will consume for say an 44.1 CD song of 4 minutes ?  For example will it be similar to Spotify? I recently tried streaming music via the Tidal app from my Iphone SE and was annoyed that it used up a lot of bandwidth. Hence why I ask.

 

 

[baoshan]

3 hours ago, earsandeyes said:

Intriguing concept.

Few questions:

-When I switch from one OSX device to another on the same iCloud account, will the(my) database com along automaticly?

 

-Within my house I do schare my server based music with other family members. We have individual iCloud accounts, not a family account. How should we operate to make that work EASY?

 

Thanks,

 

Regards

Michiel

 

 

3

 

Hi Michiel,

 

Great questions!

 

-When I switch from one OSX device to another on the same iCloud account, will the(my) database com along automaticly?

 

Yes. Your iCloud account (and only your iCloud account) owns the albums you collected.

 

-Within my house I do schare my server based music with other family members. We have individual iCloud accounts, not a family account. How should we operate to make that work EASY?

 

I’m afraid Tonal cannot do that before hiring a very smart attorney and put a lot of money into the issue. Any attempt Tonal introduced to make that work EASY may bring lots of legal troubles. Sorry.

 

The best thing I can think is your family members use their iOS device (under any iCloud account) to control a macOS app via local LAN. But I also need to consult a lawyer first.

 

Thank you again,

Baoshan

[baoshan]

2 hours ago, jaspal kallar said:

I tried it out tonight on 2 albums (same artist) from my iTunes Library (ripped with XLD) on my Imac 21.5 (mid 2010).  

 

The 2 albums sound better than Audirvana Plus 3,2 using headphones. Quieter background, more separation with instruments, voices sound more authentic. I like the clean interface. So well done!!

 

One thing the Imac bluetooth keyboard music keys are non responsive, eg can't change the volume or choose next or previous tracks.

 

When the iOS version comes, do you know how much bandwidth it will consume for say an 44.1 CD song of 4 minutes ?  For example will it be similar to Spotify? I recently tried streaming music via the Tidal app from my Iphone SE and was annoyed that it used up a lot of bandwidth. Hence why I ask.

 

 

9

 

Hi jaspal kallar,

 

Thanks for giving Tonal a try.

 

For audiophile performance, I can only offer objective and measurable benchmarks. But several users with more experiences and reputations on subjective listening tests have confirmed that Tonal sounds very, very good.

 

Since Tonal completely bypassed macOS’ CoreAudio services, we need to handle keyboard manually. It’s on the to-do list. I’ll keep you posted on this issue.

 

Keep in mind the mobile version can cache selected album(s) using WiFi network. Streaming Redbook format requires less than 5MB per minute. If that poses stresses to your cellular plan, Tonal can provide a lossy format for casual listening on the road. Please let me know if you think 5MB per minute is acceptable.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[jaspal kallar]

10 hours ago, baoshan said:

 

Hi jaspal kallar,

 

Thanks for giving Tonal a try.

 

For audiophile performance, I can only offer objective and measurable benchmarks. But several users with more experiences and reputations on subjective listening tests have confirmed that Tonal sounds very, very good.

 

Since Tonal completely bypassed macOS’ CoreAudio services, we need to handle keyboard manually. It’s on the to-do list. I’ll keep you posted on this issue.

 

Keep in mind the mobile version can cache selected album(s) using WiFi network. Streaming Redbook format requires less than 5MB per minute. If that poses stresses to your cellular plan, Tonal can provide a lossy format for casual listening on the road. Please let me know if you think 5MB per minute is acceptable.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

The keyboard issue is not a big problem, I'm aware your app is in the early stages.
 

I think 5MB/minute for Redbook would work out too much for me financially assuming I listen 2 hours per day, so that doesn't interest me.  I'll let others also comment on this. 

 

Regarding sound quality, I hear the positive difference with Tonal even just listening through my Imac (mid 2010) speakers compared to Audirvana Plus 3.2 (which also bypasses Core Audio).

 

 

[Umetaro]

20 hours ago, baoshan said:

 

Hi Umetaro,

 

Thank you very for your feedback!

 

Re: Volume issue on Devialet AIR

Please try this new build and see if the issue is resolved.

https://binaries.ton.al/app/Tonal-20180409.zip

 

Re: Ripping speed

How fast is it when ripping via XLD? Can the failed disc be ripped by XLD and pass AccurateRip verification?

 

Re: AIFF support

AIFF is already supported. Try to collect some of your lossless discs in AIFF format and let me know if something goes wrong.

 

Thanks again.

Baoshan,

 

Thanks for your quick feedback.  I tried the new build and so far I have not encountered the volume issue.  Regarding the ripping speed, I usually use dBpoweramp and it takes 5 to 10 minutes per CD.  AIFF support is great.  I look forward to further development of Tonal, especially iOS remote.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Hello again,

 

From your documentation, I understand audio playback is optimized on Mac platforms. If you ever "clone" your software to windows, what type of optimizations, if any, would it then incorporate ?

 

Thanks,

[baoshan]

14 hours ago, hopkins said:

Hello again,

 

From your documentation, I understand audio playback is optimized on Mac platforms. If you ever "clone" your software to windows, what type of optimizations, if any, would it then incorporate ?

 

Thanks,

 

Hi hopkins,

 

Your question is excellent!

 

For macOS version, this is how the playback engine is designed:

1. Different solutions (architectures) were proposed.
2. Experts on the domain were involved to settle on an optimal solution.
3. The microkernel (less than 50 disassembly instructions) was crafted.
4. Everything around the microkernel was architectured and implemented.
5. Objective benchmarks were performed to validate the technical specification.
6. Subjective listening tests were performed to validate the audiophile performance.

The whole process takes me 6+ months. For Windows version, I believe the same process need to be performed. I expect something innovative to emerge once I follow the proven innovation methodology correctly.

 

Veni creator spiritus!

 

Stay tuned. The macOS / iOS experience needs to be further optimized and a small team needs to be assembled before the Windows and Android versions are scheduled.

 

Thank you again for the question!

[Dan Gravell]

Hey @baoshan, interesting project. I've been running the bliss project for almost a decade now, here are my thoughts...

 

WRT cloud storage, have you looked at IPFS? But all that said, you have to remember that reliability (citing many-9s) is not the only aspect of dependability. S3 and the like can by considered not dependable for a number of reasons, not all of them technical (but some are, we don't all have South Korea style Internet connections, and sometimes we like riding public transport).

 

It's the metadata side of things I find most interesting, having run the bliss project which is just a music organiser (local/LAN storage only, generally). I'd noticed over the past year or two cloud storage being an increasingly discussed item on CA so I polled my users about how they use it. One of the main comebacks was (although backup was by far the most popular use case) *integration* and synchronisation. How open is this to allow other music players/software to be connected?

 

Tonal Curator is ambitious in its trust. As a developer, it looks great and elegant on first use, but I worry about scale in multiple dimensions.

 

People find it difficult enough to fill in a simple text field for FreeDB, let alone a structured language. It will need good syntax help (inspired by Wikipedia, Trello, StackExchange editors?) but it's content that's the main issue. There will be mistakes, so it will *have* to be open to collaboration.

 

Of course - a similar concept already exists in the reference implementation of FreeDB which is just a bunch of text files, stored in the 'correct' location. The language is more defined and more explicit which I would consider better in this case. Your syntax appears whitespace sensitive and it looks like starting lines etc with numbers implies track positions, but how are these rules communicated? The example shown works for releases, but you discussed classical works earlier; how are works communicated? It reads a little like someone has some secret knowledge in their head, but you need to offer affordances to direct use.

 

Could just be thoughts-from-an-armchair of course, it's worth a try...

 

p.s. nice idea to host the metadata in Github. Take it you know about https://help.github.com/articles/what-is-my-disk-quota/

 

p.p.s You can't be serious about paying the cloud hosting bill yourself? You will have to have a revenue stream.

[baoshan]

34 minutes ago, Dan Gravell said:

Hey @baoshan, interesting project. I've been running the bliss project for almost a decade now, here are my thoughts...

 

WRT cloud storage, have you looked at IPFS? But all that said, you have to remember that reliability (citing many-9s) is not the only aspect of dependability. S3 and the like can by considered not dependable for a number of reasons, not all of them technical (but some are, we don't all have South Korea style Internet connections, and sometimes we like riding public transport).

 

It's the metadata side of things I find most interesting, having run the bliss project which is just a music organiser (local/LAN storage only, generally). I'd noticed over the past year or two cloud storage being an increasingly discussed item on CA so I polled my users about how they use it. One of the main comebacks was (although backup was by far the most popular use case) *integration* and synchronisation. How open is this to allow other music players/software to be connected?

 

Tonal Curator is ambitious in its trust. As a developer, it looks great and elegant on first use, but I worry about scale in multiple dimensions.

 

People find it difficult enough to fill in a simple text field for FreeDB, let alone a structured language. It will need good syntax help (inspired by Wikipedia, Trello, StackExchange editors?) but it's content that's the main issue. There will be mistakes, so it will *have* to be open to collaboration.

 

Of course - a similar concept already exists in the reference implementation of FreeDB which is just a bunch of text files, stored in the 'correct' location. The language is more defined and more explicit which I would consider better in this case. Your syntax appears whitespace sensitive and it looks like starting lines etc with numbers implies track positions, but how are these rules communicated? The example shown works for releases, but you discussed classical works earlier; how are works communicated? It reads a little like someone has some secret knowledge in their head, but you need to offer affordances to direct use.

 

Could just be thoughts-from-an-armchair of course, it's worth a try...

 

p.s. nice idea to host the metadata in Github. Take it you know about https://help.github.com/articles/what-is-my-disk-quota/

 

p.p.s You can't be serious about paying the cloud hosting bill yourself? You will have to have a revenue stream.

 

 

Hi Dan,

 

Nice to talk with you. What I’m saying here is my own opinion for now, I’m open to different views.

 

Re: On Storage / CDN

S3 / CloudFront solution is quite enough to power the UX for now. IPFS does bring decentralization, but I’m not sure what benefits it could bring to end users‘ experience. I belive my conclusion is quite short-sighted, please correct me.

 

Re: Integration & Synchronisation

Are you talking about allowing other players consume the same audio content from Tonal cloud storage? I’m not very fond of that, at least for the current stage. Tonal is focused on end-users’ (audiophiles and collectors) experience. The format is proprietry not to prevent other softwares from consuming it, but for better end user experience. Everything except for the metadata engine is designed solely for Tonal.

 

Re: Metadata

Thank you very much for mentioning Tonal Curator. Yes. I havn’t introduced it to the community. It’s simple, efficient, and not error-prone. It has many secret features such as error-auto-fixing and autocompletion built in. I can teach the syntax in one hour. Tonal Curator is standard agnostic, which means the community need to decide on the standards. Can you think of a good method to build a community of metadata contributors? Without contributors, I have little motivation to introduce Tonal Curator officially.

 

Re: GitHub Repo Size

5GB can support millions of discs. Plus, it’s very easy to switch from GitHub to GitLab, etc. The binary assets (covers, booklets) are not stored in the repo.

 

Re: Storage Cost

Tonal is a for-profit project. It MAY not be always free for unlimited collection size.

 

Thank you.

 

[mneveux]

Has anyone here been successful getting Tonal to work with a Schiit Bifrost 4490? I know one user has it working with the Bifrost Multibit. If you do have it working with the 4490, can you tell what settings you have in Audio Midi Setup?

 

Thanks

[baoshan]

9 minutes ago, mneveux said:

Has anyone here been successful getting Tonal to work with a Schiit Bifrost 4490? I know one user has it working with the Bifrost Multibit. If you do have it working with the 4490, can you tell what settings you have in Audio Midi Setup?

 

Thanks

 

I’m sorry for the unsolved 4490 issue. Audio Midi Setup won’t help because Tonal takes completely control.

[mneveux]

10 minutes ago, baoshan said:

 

I’m sorry for the unsolved 4490 issue. Audio Midi Setup won’t help because Tonal takes completely control.

When I attempt to use Tonal, it does change my audio midi setup settings. After attempting to use Tonal and after closing it I have to go into audio midi setup to set the format to 16 bit 44.1k Tonal changes it to 32 bit 44.1k and no audio works until I change it back.

[bucket]

Hi baoshan

 

Listening right now. I live in rural Ontario, Canada. Goes to say we have terrible internet service, therefore uploading my collection is an onerous, if not impossible task. I am really liking what I am hearing, not exactly understanding all of the process making this possible, I have read your articles. I will keep adding to the collection and following your progress. Best of Luck. David.

[baoshan]

42 minutes ago, mneveux said:

When I attempt to use Tonal, it does change my audio midi setup settings. After attempting to use Tonal and after closing it I have to go into audio midi setup to set the format to 16 bit 44.1k Tonal changes it to 32 bit 44.1k and no audio works until I change it back.

 

That may be the reason. Can you PM me a screenshot of your 4490’s supported formats in Audio MIDI Setup?

 

If you play music via iTunes, all these supported formats should be able to work. Can iTunes work when switch to 44.1/32 in Audio MIDI Setup?

 

Thanks.