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EtherREGEN: We are getting much closer!!

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7 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

One thing to consider is that your current situation of sending music through the Ethernet while playing significantly degrades sound may in fact go away when using an EtherREGEN, that is in fact its primary purpose, to get rid of anything coming over the network that will degrade sound.  It seems like your assumption is that the degradation is coming from the renderer itself having to deal with the data rather than from what is coming over the connection itself. It's hard to tell exactly which it is.

 

The EtherREGEN may clean up the external degradation so much that having music data coming over the wire wile it is being played does not cause any degradation. Or there still might be some effect from the renderer's  electronics itself. That's going to be hard to tell until you try it. 

 

Unfortunately there is no way anyone can tell you exactly how it is going to turn out in any situation, the fully functional EtherREGEN simply does not exist at this point in time. Even if I had all the equipment you have I couldn't test it since I don't have a fully functional board at this point. I'm not trying hide things or be difficult, It just cannot be done right now. There is no way I can tell yow what configuration is going to sound best. There is just no way I can do that right now. Any attempt at making a pure guess would be a disservice to the community.

 

It seems to me that the best way to deal with this, is wait until you have an EtherREGEN, then try it in the different modes, see if prebuffering everything before playing is in fact better than data coming over while playing, THEN we have some information to start coming up with scenarios for testing to find out what ultimately is best for you.

 

John S.

Thank you, John. Will patiently wait and try when the time comes.

 

8 minutes ago, lmitche said:

My assumption is the interrupt processing on the receiving PC with a streaming NIC port creates noise on it's own given the  necessary context switch, and that is going to be a constant, EtherRegen or not. I guess one could try larger frames to see if that changes things, but that is another ball of wax. No doubt ram buffering eliminates at least a part (up to half)  of this interrupt processing noise but part of it will always be there.

+1. That's exactly what I was thinking too. I have witnessed similar sound quality degradation simply from scanning my local library, even with the network cable unplugged.  So I agree that it's more likely the result of the interrupt processing. 

 

Let's move on. We'll post the outcome of our tests in another thread when we have an EtherREGEN in our hands. 

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

Thank you, John. Will patiently wait and try when the time comes.

 

+1. That's exactly what I was thinking too. I have witnessed similar sound quality degradation simply from scanning my local library, even with the network cable unplugged.  So I agree that it's more likely the result of the interrupt processing. 

 

Let's move on. We'll post the outcome of our tests in another thread when we have an EtherREGEN in our hands. 

 

Indeed. 

 

Nenon, if you're interested, I looked into this interrupt behavior in the context of another workload: Squeezelite with large buffers on AL in ramroot. Different code, but similar behavior on the network. Here's the link: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/54933-audiolinux-and-nuc-troubleshooting-and-tuning/?do=findComment&comment=904234

 

 

Let's followup on that or the Euphony thread, as it's definitely OT here.

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Hi,

 

I am not to familiar on the capabilities of the Etherregen as not done my research but can someone explain what would be the benefit of using this as apposed to a good quality Ethernet cable like the Shunyata Alpha with a built in filter module?

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23 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

I guess I need to explain how pre-loading in RAM is different than streaming.

 

Not all the DSD files are that big, but some are. Let's take an extreme case. It takes over 80 seconds to transfer a 1GB file over 100 Mbps connection. So let's say hypothetically that I have an album with 10 DSD tracks of that size. Here is what happens:

- I click play.

- I wait 80+ seconds for the file to load in RAM. 

- The track start playing. The music stops at the end of the track.

- The second track starts loading.

- I wait 80+ seconds for the second track to load.

- Repeat the same process above for the rest of the tracks... 

 

1 GB file is a very extreme case. Most of my files are much smaller. Let's say an average file is 150 MB. That is still a 12+ seconds gap between tracks. That would be quite an unpleasant experience over 100 Mbps connection. If we bump it up to 1 Gbps connection the gap would be just a little over a second on an average file size. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, you will no longer need to play from RAM given that the EtherREGEN promises to clean-up (de-noise?) the network signal. Or at least you could lower the percentage from 100% to some other less hiatus-inducing setting without destroying your currently enjoyable level of perceived sonic purity.

 

Regards

GG

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4 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Maybe, just maybe, you will no longer need to play from RAM given that the EtherREGEN promises to clean-up (de-noise?) the network signal. Or at least you could lower the percentage from 100% to some other less hiatus-inducing setting without destroying your currently enjoyable level of perceived sonic purity.

 

Regards

GG

 

Based on my OS tweaking experience so far, I highly doubt it. But we would not know for sure until we get one.

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1 hour ago, Nay said:

Thanks for your pointless input 🤬🤬🤬

 

Even reading the first entry of this thread will answer your question. Most of us are carefully watching this thread as the etherRegen is being refined, and perhaps finalized, this go ‘round. From the last news, you have several months to read/digest this thread for fine points.

 

OP has specifically asked to exclude Ethernet cable talk from this thread. I would think if you wanted to limit your reading, the cable discussion had been in the last 4-5 pages, ending when asked by the OP.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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31 minutes ago, Bones13 said:

 

Even reading the first entry of this thread will answer your question. Most of us are carefully watching this thread as the etherRegen is being refined, and perhaps finalized, this go ‘round. From the last news, you have several months to read/digest this thread for fine points.

 

OP has specifically asked to exclude Ethernet cable talk from this thread. I would think if you wanted to limit your reading, the cable discussion had been in the last 4-5 pages, ending when asked by the OP.

Thank you,

 

I did not realise until i have read further back regarding the discussion of Ethernet cables is a no go.

 

The Etherregen looks the way to go so hoping to see it available soon?

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1 hour ago, Ricardo007 said:

@imitche

What are u calling "interrupt" source ?  What is cause of this noise ? 

Normal I/O interrupt processing in this case from the NIC port.


nuckleheadaudio.com

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@JohnSwenson a question regarding the metallcase around the LAN port on the B-side how is that connected to other parts of the etherREGEN? Is there a connection to other metallcases (RJ45 A-side) and to the groundconnection or is it floating compared to them for example?

My intrest in this is rather hypothetical, if I were to use a sheilded ethernetcable (with screen connected to the plug) from the B-side to streamer would this make a connection from upstream on A-side cables to the b-side streamer cable "if" they have the screens connected in the plugs on both sides A and B on the etherREGEN?

 

UpTone EtherREGEN pre-production1.jpg


Main system

TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC

Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC

HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system

Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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1 hour ago, octaviars said:

@JohnSwenson a question regarding the metallcase around the LAN port on the B-side how is that connected to other parts of the etherREGEN? Is there a connection to other metallcases (RJ45 A-side) and to the groundconnection or is it floating compared to them for example?

 

The metal shroud of the ‘B’-side RJ45 port absolutely is not common to any other EtherREGEN ground (or to anything on the ‘A’ side). If it was then that would defeat much of isolation which we go to so much trouble to create. 9_9

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1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 If it was then that would defeat much of isolation which we go to so much trouble to create.

 

I assumed this but better to ask. Is the metal shroud on the ´B`-side not connected to anything? So if I were to use a screened cabel from streamer to etherREGEN with the screen connected to the plug it would just end in the metal shroud on the B-side is this correct?


Main system

TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC

Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC

HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system

Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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18 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

494319801_etherREGENRJ45.png.20d7cdcff28b62d1afc0d84b79b0062c.png

 

 


Main system

TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC

Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC

HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system

Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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6 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

494319801_etherREGENRJ45.png.20d7cdcff28b62d1afc0d84b79b0062c.png

 

 

I highly doubt it. Of course nothing is stopping you from trying, but my guess is that it will make no difference.

 

John S.

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On 8/17/2019 at 12:43 PM, octaviars said:

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

494319801_etherREGENRJ45.png.20d7cdcff28b62d1afc0d84b79b0062c.png

 

 

the magnetic's provide an isolation transformer and a common mode inductor so they don't need any GND connection as such. The  RJ45 (shield) case is either connected directly to the board 0V direct, the boards 0V via a cap or many design have a separate chassis connection, the shield can be connected either directly to this or again by a cap.

Myself I wouldn't connect the screen of a Ethernet cable for domestic use, the wires are not that long and you never know what the RJ45 case is connected to in other devices so you can create an unintentional ground loop....

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20 minutes ago, marce said:

Myself I wouldn't connect the screen of a Ethernet cable for domestic use, the wires are not that long and you never know what the RJ45 case is connected to in other devices so you can create an unintentional ground loop....

 

I think @JohnSwenson already answered how it is in the etherREGEN :)

 

On 8/16/2019 at 6:57 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

John S.

 

So if you dont use any external 10MHz connection as I see it wont be able to make any groundloops to other equipment if you would (by accident or intentional) use a LAN cable with the screen connected to the plug in both ends (I dont plan to do it) but I might be wrong about this, I am shure John will fill in if I got it wrong :)


Main system

TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC

Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC

HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system

Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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Yeah, this thread has quieted down, as the earliest possible (not promised!) shipping of the first round is now November. I’m still happy to see the progress, and the careful development of this box. Fortunately, no one should be doing without music, with some other switch/hub working in their system. (I have some D-Link generic hub currently in that spot)

 

(crossed fingers that another board, or part supply, issue occurs)

 

Still looking forward to improving my system with the etherRegen, it has been great fun watching the development process, along with the trials, and tribulations faced by the UpTone team. Thanks again for sharing with us!  It would have been so easy to not mention this product until the actual release.

 

I'm taking the Thanksgiving week off, maybe I will get to put the etherRegento use that weekend?


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

Yeah, this thread has quieted down, as the earliest possible (not promised!) shipping of the first round is now November.

 

Not sure how you came up with November as the “earliest possible shipping.”  We are still crossing our fingers for October. The cases for EtherREGEN arrive October 2nd.  Of course everything depends on how functional the new (final?) round of pre-production/beta-test boards are.  Those should arrive at John’s lab this coming Monday and he will get started with them right away.  I have a good feeling about these...

 

1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

Still looking forward to improving my system with the etherRegen, it has been great fun watching the development process, along with the trials, and tribulations faced by the UpTone team. Thanks again for sharing with us!  It would have been so easy to not mention this product until the actual release.

 

Yes, well there are pros and cons to announcing early.  And really if we had known development would take this long we probably would not have started talking that far in advance.  Seeing what was going on in the market—with several other rather uninspired switches and mods, some at silly prices—is what compelled us to reveal the project and its wholly unique architecture.

 

We have had a couple of other innovative products in the works concurrent with EtherREGEN, and so far I’ve done a good job keeping my mouth shut about them. B| It would be fun to for once launch a product and have it be a surprise.  I’m sure that within a couple of months of the EtherREGEN launch I’ll start to spill some beans. But by then at least one of the new pieces will be fully working on the bench and be much easier to predict production for.  

 

1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

I’m taking the Thanksgiving week off, maybe I will get to put the etherRegento use that weekend?

 

And what, you think I’m planning to give up my Thanksgiving holiday week to get you an EtherREGEN?! x-D

Honestly, I’ll be pretty bummed if they are not in people’s systems well before then...

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