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EtherREGEN: We are getting much closer!!

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47 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

You have me a bit confused--about the crossing the moat twice stuff. You might need to post a diagram of your system. 

 

But again, there is no "clean side" or "dirty side."  There is just the moat separating the two clock/data/power domains.  And ideally the DAC-attached device is alone by itself on one side or the other. But its certainly okay to put two end-point renderer devices on the 'A' ports side and feed in from the rest of your network via the 'B' port.

 

Hope that helps. :)

Sorry for not being more clear @Superdad.  I understand the idea of no clean or dirty side.  As long as the signal passes the moat then the EtherRegen will do its magic.  I am trying to take advantage of this concept by having the signal pass the moat twice, once as the music is transferred from my wireless bridge to the HQP PC and another time when the HQP PC transfers the upsampled music to the NAA PC.  I am wondering if there is any advantage to sending a clean signal to the HQP PC or is all that matters is the NAA PC getting the clean signal. Here is a diagram:

 

 

EtherRegen Setup.jpg


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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1 hour ago, tboooe said:

I am wondering if there is any advantage to sending a clean signal to the HQP PC or is all that matters is the NAA PC getting the clean signal. Here is a diagram:

 

Thanks for the diagram.  I still think the best set up for you will likely be with the NAA connected to the sole 'B' port, and all other connections on the 'A' side.  

Of course everyone is encouraged to experiment! :D

 

I'll probably post the case artwork tomorrow.  Last little tweaks being done.

And I think the pre-production boards will finally arrive by the end of this coming week (you'll all recall that a part datasheet error caused us to have to scrap the first set of bare boards even before any parts were soldered on).

 

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.  It is starting to get really hot up here in Mariposa! 

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@Superdad @JohnSwenson

I have ISP contract for 200Mbps. My ISP integrated modemrouterswitch is connected to a cisco 2960 switch and from theres to my network audio. I plan to buy etherregen and add it after the cisco.

Now my question is the following:

By using etherchannel i can aggregate 2 100mbps copper ports for higher speed 200mbps to the etheregen side A. For streaming service use would that be in theory better?

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I think there is only one 100mb port the rest are 1G.


Bryston BP-26 Preamp, BDA-3 Dac, 4B Cubed Amp, Sonore oRendu powered by a Sonore Ultra PS,, Sonore oModule powered by a Uptone Audio LPS-1.2, YFS configured 2012 Mac Mini, YFS PS for Mini, Clearaudio Champion TT Level 1, JLTI Phono Stage, Totem Mani-2 Speakers, Audio Magic Interconnects, Speaker and Power Cables, Lush USB cable from oRendu to BDA-3 DAC and Audioquest Ethernet Cables. PI Audio Battery Buss powering 2 FireWire Hard Drives.  Herbies Audio Labs and Audio Magic accessories. I also have a Uptone Audio ISO regen powered by a Uptone LPS-1.2 that is presently out of the loop for now pending feedback from others with the Sonore Optical products as well as my own listening.

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16 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

@Superdad @JohnSwenson

I have ISP contract for 200Mbps. My ISP integrated modemrouterswitch is connected to a cisco 2960 switch and from theres to my network audio. I plan to buy etherregen and add it after the cisco.

Now my question is the following:

By using etherchannel i can aggregate 2 100mbps copper ports for higher speed 200mbps to the etheregen side A. For streaming service use would that be in theory better?

Streaming high res uses way less than 100mbps so there is no need to aggregate.  In my system, even DSD512 uses only about 50mbps.


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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Alex / John (or anyone more networking-aware than I am who can answer...),

I'm as eager as anyone to get my hands on the EtherRegen.

My audio-only computer audio setups are fairly simple yet moderately refined... RPi 2B endpoint with various I2S-connected DACs, receiving Delock FMC, sending Trendnet FMC, ZyXEL switch, Zotax ZBox PI320-W2 nano-PC as a music-file server, and a WiFi router configured as a Wifi endpoint to provide wireless control connectivity. No streaming, no internet connection at all, all devices have linear supplies, somewhat optimized (but primative compared to many of the recently hot setups).

I've started taking a look at what configurations I'll try at first. I can see 3 useful configurations:

- Moving the Delock FMC to the sending side and using the EtherRegen as a final optical to wired ethernet converter, retaining the ZyXEL switch and keeping everything else as before.

- Removing the optical links entirely and replacing the ZyXEL switch with the EtherRegen where the sole "B" side port would provide the Ethernet connection the RPi and everything else is connected to the "A" side.

I have 2 questions about using the EtherRegen in these ways:

1. Of course the RPi 2B is limted to 100Base-T 100 Mbps. I'm assuming the wired ports in the EtherRegen will auto-negotiate down to this, but thought I'd ask to be sure. Truth?

2. To use the EtherRegen as an optical networking endpoint, I'll need an appropriate SFP optical module and an adapter cable. I believe this adapter cable will suffice to go between the DeLocks and an appropriate SFP optical module:

- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01663TTCE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3KXHMB5SA7Q9Z&psc=1

BUT what SFP optical module will work ok?

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi


2 systems including...

AC: Audio gear on DIY AC filters/PSAud P10/P300; misc gear on separate AC w/DIY AC filters

Analog: Well-Tempered Refs or U-Turn Orbit Plus->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Stand-alone Digital: Sony HAP Z1-ES, Oppo 870, Panasonic S47, SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked Digital: Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> switch + WiFi router as access point -> FMCs -> R-Pi/Allo Kali/Soekris DAM DAC, R-Pi/Allo Kali/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, or R-Pi/Allo Kali/Mamboberry

Volume Control: SE Passive shunt, S&B TX102 TVC, K&K Balanced shunt, DIYHiFi AVC

Amps: dual mono'd Hypex NC400, EVS 500M B&0 IcePower, FirstOne

Speakers: Eminent Tech LFT-VIII, LFT-IV, or Gallo Ref 3A

Tuning: Various stands/vibration control, noise filters on digital power and Ethernet cables, audio cables MIT reg or Shotgun, ALL gear modified or DIY'd, MOST supplies linear or LPS-1s (DVD players & amps have SMPSs)

 

Everything Matters!

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22 hours ago, gstew said:

Greg in Mississippi


Your link doesn’t work

 

And I suppose you’re asking what SPF Module fits the cage of the EtherRegen ?

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:04 PM, tboooe said:

Streaming high res uses way less than 100mbps so there is no need to aggregate.  In my system, even DSD512 uses only about 50mbps.

 

Don't forget that there are other use cases.

In my system (Euphony/Stylus), when I hit the play button, the track gets downloaded from my NAS to my music server, loaded completely in RAM, and played from RAM. It would take close to 3 minutes to download a 2GB DSD512 track over 100Mbps connection. Luckily my files are not that big at the moment, but if they were, I would have to wait 3 minutes between tracks...

I read the technical explanation why the port is limited to 100Mbps, but it is kind of a bummer.

 

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38 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Don't forget that there are other use cases.

In my system (Euphony/Stylus), when I hit the play button, the track gets downloaded from my NAS to my music server, loaded completely in RAM, and played from RAM. It would take close to 3 minutes to download a 2GB DSD512 track over 100Mbps connection. Luckily my files are not that big at the moment, but if they were, I would have to wait 3 minutes between tracks...

I read the technical explanation why the port is limited to 100Mbps, but it is kind of a bummer.

 

Agreed but I thought the original question was regarding specifically streaming services like Tidal, etc.  


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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Are we there yet, (super)dad?  😐


Digital:  Innuos Zenith Std Mk2 > Shunyata Alpha USB > Chord Hugo M-Scaler > Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF > Chord Hugo TT2 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha power cords, Shunyata Anaconda interconnect, MIT Oracle speaker cables, GIK bass traps

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23 hours ago, R1200CL said:


Your link doesn’t work

 

And I suppose you’re asking what SPF Module fits the cage of the EtherRegen ?

Lets try that link again... 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01663TTCE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3KXHMB5SA7Q9Z&psc=1

 

AND it probably helps if I also link to the specific Delock FMC I have:

 

https://www.reichelt.com/us/en/de/en/media-conv-100base-fx-sc-mm-1310nm-2km-delock-86444-p175548.html?r=1

 

SO one question is if the wired Ethernet port of the EtherRegen will work ok into the 100 Mbps RPi. Going back through this thread, it sounds like it will.  Let me know if I misread and it won't.

 

So then the other question is what would be a good optical SFP module compatible with the Delock and would the linked adapter cable work.

 

Better?

 

Greg in MIssissippi


2 systems including...

AC: Audio gear on DIY AC filters/PSAud P10/P300; misc gear on separate AC w/DIY AC filters

Analog: Well-Tempered Refs or U-Turn Orbit Plus->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Stand-alone Digital: Sony HAP Z1-ES, Oppo 870, Panasonic S47, SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked Digital: Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> switch + WiFi router as access point -> FMCs -> R-Pi/Allo Kali/Soekris DAM DAC, R-Pi/Allo Kali/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, or R-Pi/Allo Kali/Mamboberry

Volume Control: SE Passive shunt, S&B TX102 TVC, K&K Balanced shunt, DIYHiFi AVC

Amps: dual mono'd Hypex NC400, EVS 500M B&0 IcePower, FirstOne

Speakers: Eminent Tech LFT-VIII, LFT-IV, or Gallo Ref 3A

Tuning: Various stands/vibration control, noise filters on digital power and Ethernet cables, audio cables MIT reg or Shotgun, ALL gear modified or DIY'd, MOST supplies linear or LPS-1s (DVD players & amps have SMPSs)

 

Everything Matters!

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9 hours ago, gstew said:

Lets try that link again... 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01663TTCE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3KXHMB5SA7Q9Z&psc=1

 

AND it probably helps if I also link to the specific Delock FMC I have:

 

https://www.reichelt.com/us/en/de/en/media-conv-100base-fx-sc-mm-1310nm-2km-delock-86444-p175548.html?r=1

 

SO one question is if the wired Ethernet port of the EtherRegen will work ok into the 100 Mbps RPi. Going back through this thread, it sounds like it will.  Let me know if I misread and it won't.

 

So then the other question is what would be a good optical SFP module compatible with the Delock and would the linked adapter cable work.

 

Better?

 

Greg in MIssissippi

The optical port of the linked FMC will NOT work with the SFP port of the EtherREGEN. The SFP port on the EtherREGEN is gigabit ONLY. The RJ45 jack on the FMC IS compatible with any of the 5 RJ45 jacks on the EtherREGEN.

 

The 4 jacks on one side are all 10/100/1000, the single port on the other side is just 100. The SFP port is JUST gigabit no matter what the SFP module is.

 

John S.

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5 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

So there is no 1 gb across the moat ?

you can get 1gb in and out but you will not cross the moat ?

please let me know if misunderstood 

 

For the four 'A' side ports and the SFP port--Gigabit rate will go between them and any attached devices.

But you are correct that the 'B' side port on the other side of the moat is 10/100Mbps only (plenty even for DSD512), and data flowing across the active isolators is at 100Mbps.

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15 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The optical port of the linked FMC will NOT work with the SFP port of the EtherREGEN. The SFP port on the EtherREGEN is gigabit ONLY. The RJ45 jack on the FMC IS compatible with any of the 5 RJ45 jacks on the EtherREGEN.

 

The 4 jacks on one side are all 10/100/1000, the single port on the other side is just 100. The SFP port is JUST gigabit no matter what the SFP module is.

 

John S.

Thanks John (and Alex for your additional clarification). 

 

So I can connect any of the RJ45 ports on the EtherREGEN to the RPi ok. Kewl.

 

AND if I got a gigabit optical FMC, I could use that to connect to the optical port, correct? 

 

Not sure if it'll be worth it, just checking.

 

Greg

 


2 systems including...

AC: Audio gear on DIY AC filters/PSAud P10/P300; misc gear on separate AC w/DIY AC filters

Analog: Well-Tempered Refs or U-Turn Orbit Plus->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Stand-alone Digital: Sony HAP Z1-ES, Oppo 870, Panasonic S47, SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked Digital: Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> switch + WiFi router as access point -> FMCs -> R-Pi/Allo Kali/Soekris DAM DAC, R-Pi/Allo Kali/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, or R-Pi/Allo Kali/Mamboberry

Volume Control: SE Passive shunt, S&B TX102 TVC, K&K Balanced shunt, DIYHiFi AVC

Amps: dual mono'd Hypex NC400, EVS 500M B&0 IcePower, FirstOne

Speakers: Eminent Tech LFT-VIII, LFT-IV, or Gallo Ref 3A

Tuning: Various stands/vibration control, noise filters on digital power and Ethernet cables, audio cables MIT reg or Shotgun, ALL gear modified or DIY'd, MOST supplies linear or LPS-1s (DVD players & amps have SMPSs)

 

Everything Matters!

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Would the EtherRegen isolate in such a way, that Ethernet cable differences are negligible on clean side? Lack of isolation is one of the biggest reasons that we can hear differences in cables....

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7 minutes ago, gstew said:

So I can connect any of the RJ45 ports on the EtherREGEN to the RPi ok. Kewl.

Yep.

7 minutes ago, gstew said:

AND if I got a gigabit optical FMC, I could use that to connect to the optical port, correct? 

Yep.

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3 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

Would the EtherRegen isolate in such a way, that Ethernet cable differences are negligible on clean side? Lack of isolation is one of the biggest reasons that we can hear differences in cables....

 

Setting aside that we are avoiding the term "clean side" (as the design is rather symmetrical), potential cable differences will be lessened on the upstream side of the isolation moat.  That is opposite of the downstream side you are calling the "clean side."  

The point being that what comes before the isolation--and final clocking "out" to the DAC-connected device--is what will matter much less.  But the cable from that--typically the lone 'B"-side port--will be the one that still matters.  Hence we suggest keeping the EtherREGEN close to the DAC-connected Ethernet renderer (or Ethernet DAC) and using a short, high-quality cable for that connection.

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What about the "General" network side versus the specialised "Audio" side?

 

Maybe EtherAUDIO or EtherMOAT might be a better name even though I understand the REGEN nomenclature and how it fits with other products on offer.

 

Regards

GG

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