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EtherREGEN: We are getting much closer!!

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9 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Now Alex, why on earth would I - of all people - even dream of doing that?

 

LOL. :P  Of course I know you know that your's is something of an extreme case.  But considering you could almost purchase 3 EtherREGEN units for the price of one SOtM switch I am not too worried... 9_9

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

LOL. :P  Of course I know you know that your's is something of an extreme case.  But considering you could almost purchase 3 EtherREGEN units for the price of one SOtM switch I am not too worried... 9_9

 

Not that extreme. Just one EtherRegen could replace the SOtM switch in my picture, with the same PSU and the same 10MHz reference clock. A shootout just begging to be done.

 

Hint, hint. :) 

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

The 'A' side has four Gigabit copper ports and one Gigabit-ready SFP cage.  The 'B' side has a lone 100Mbps copper port.

 

What is the significance of having Gigabit vs 100Mbps copper ports in the context of audio transmission/reproduction such as how this unit is meant to be used?


Roon Server: Gigabyte GA-Z170X UD5, i5 6600, Crucial MX200 SSD, HyperX 1x16GB RAM, Seasonic 520W 80+ PSU, 3 HDD for media, Zalman Z3 Plus case, Win 10 Pro

HQPlayer: Intel S1200KPR, Xeon E3 1265lv2, Crucial V4 SSD for OS, 8GB ECC RAM, PPA USB card v2, wide range picoPSU, PPA SATA cable for SSD, Streacom FC8 Evo case, lab linear PSU for picoPSU, Windows Server 2012 R2, AudioPhil's Optimizer, Acourate (digital crossovers, room correction), HQPlayer upsampling to 192/24

Rest of Chain:

Lynx Hilo as 6-channel DAC, McIntosh MC275 MkIV for mids & treble, Hypex UcD400HG for midbass into B&W 804S, 2 DIY 12" Rythmik subs, Equi=Core 1800 balanced power, dedicated power lines, room treatments

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39 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

What is the significance of having Gigabit vs 100Mbps copper ports in the context of audio transmission/reproduction such as how this unit is meant to be used?

 

The new low-jitter, differential, active digital isolators we use are not fast enough for Gigabit speed. So the lone 'B'-side port is 100Mbps. Since 100Mbps is plenty fast for all audio endpoints there should not be any issue for any normal use case.

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SuperDad, 

 

How long a cable can I run safely from the  A side to a Mac Mini dedicated to Netflix streaming? It's about 20 meters from the switch? Or would you recommend getting a second switch? 

 

Thanks! 


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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On 7/9/2019 at 9:36 AM, struts said:

 

You couldn't just mount this part on the underside of these few boards?

Its SMD!!!

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2 hours ago, marce said:

Its SMD!!!

 

Well, the underside's a surface...  😉

 

Apologies for the OT, but just curious, have you ever seen two-sided SMD? If not, is there a very good reason not to do it?


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, Jud said:

Apologies for the OT, but just curious, have you ever seen two-sided SMD? If not, is there a very good reason not to do it?

Double-sided PCBs are very common. The main advantage is smaller size. The disadvantage is more complicated (and thus expensive) assembly since it requires two passes through pick-and-place and reflow. As always in engineering, it's a trade-off.

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13 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

How long a cable can I run safely from the  A side to a Mac Mini dedicated to Netflix streaming? It's about 20 meters from the switch? Or would you recommend getting a second switch? 

 

20 meters to the EtherREGEN is no problem at all. I believe the limit is 100 meters (328 feet) for CAT 5/5e/6 cable between routers/switches.

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7 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

@Superdad

Do you have sind picture or concept pics of the outside?

What is the heat dissipation of the unit? Can it used in a closed enclosure (cabinet). 

 

The enclosure has been mentioned many a time here:

Identical to the LPS-1.2


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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1 minute ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

The enclosure has been mentioned many a time here:

Identical to the LPS-1.2

 

You’re right! I was just curious to know how the inputs are located etc. 

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sounds like both flat surfaces are covered with the SFP, ethernet ports, clock port, and power input, with one LED light as well. not at all sure which ports are on which side.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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On 6/11/2019 at 12:17 AM, Superdad said:

Okay gang:

After many days and nights of John's painstaking--and mind-numbing--labor, along with a few last critical surprise part changes based on availability (for the better), the final layout and routing of EtherREGEN is done!!  And the pre-production boards are on order.

 

Below is the board (remember this is a 6-layer board so not everything is visible); The wide grey line that cuts across is the moat between the 'A' side and the isolated 'B' side.

365 parts total (though 300 of them are tiny, but specially chosen capacitors and resistors).  That's a lot of parts for a board that is just 100mm x 106mm.

 

Now we wait a few weeks for the boards to be produced--and hope that they work perfect or need only a few tweaks.  I am paying in advance for procurement of all the PCB parts for the first 250 unit run.  About $60K up front.  Color me excited and nervous...9_9

 

This is no ordinary Ethernet switch!

 

64254135_EtherREGEN0_9D.thumb.gif.f31de52e875469889954e0f51670419c.gif

 

Next up: A dear friend and industrial designer/architect is doing the CAD work for the milling and silkscreening of the casework.  We'll be collaborating to get all the openings and labels just right so that I can get the enclosures on order shortly.

 Here is an early render of the board itself. Imply whatever you want, but I see the SFP, and a gang of ethernet ports on the top end (B?), and a single port, and clock input (with switch) on the bottom right (A side?), with power, LED (and perhaps ground screw) on the bottom left (more B side)

 

My guesses, and, assuming the board still looks like this.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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I know this is all conjecture right now until the product is officially released but hey, its fun to hypothesize about audio right?

 

Anyway, right now in my 2 pc setup, I have my HQP and NAA machines connected directly using a Blue Jean CAT6 cable and IPV6.  My HQP pc has a dual fiber and single copper nic.  The fiber nic is connected to Cisco Catalyst 2960 switch which is connected to a wireless bridge via copper.  

 

My initial thought was that I would plug everything into the EtherRegen, replace the Cisco switch and I would no longer have the direct connection between the HQP and NAA pc.  However, I got to thinking that perhaps keeping the direct connection is still superior.  In that case, I would still keep the Cisco switch and put the EtherRegen in between the HQP and NAA pc's.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts on this especially if the EtherRegen incorporates the advantages of a direct connection in a 2 pc set up.


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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I think we would all be interested in you trying both.

 

I have a much simpler system with my NAS as a Roon server, and my streamer/DAC/Pre getting direct ethernet input. I will be replacing a cheap 5 port ethernet hub with the etherRegen. The 100m port going to the streamer and the other ports going to the home switch, Oppo BluRay, and Roku devices that all live in my audio stack.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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8 hours ago, Bernstein said:

You’re right! I was just curious to know how the inputs are located etc. 

 

Graphics and precise milled opening positions for the case are being finalized this week. I'll post those pics the moment they are done and we will turn in the production order for the cases.  Trying to avoid being impacted by the Japanese "Natsu-yasumi”summer holiday August 10th-18th (our cases are custom-made in Japan).

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9 hours ago, Bones13 said:

 Here is an early render of the board itself. Imply whatever you want, but I see the SFP, and a gang of ethernet ports on the top end (B?), and a single port, and clock input (with switch) on the bottom right (A side?), with power, LED (and perhaps ground screw) on the bottom left (more B side)

 

My guesses, and, assuming the board still looks like this.

The A side and B side are actually logical constructs, albeit mostly physical as well. The "moat" separates the A side from the B side.

 

The A side has the 4 port RJ45 jacks, the SFP cage on the "front" of the case and the LED, power jack and grounding screw on the back. The B side contains the rest, single RJ45 jack, switch and external clock BNC jack all on the back.

 

John S.

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21 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

The A side has the 4 port RJ45 jacks, the SFP cage on the "front" of the case and the LED, power jack and grounding screw on the back.

 

Can a mini spade be held in place by the grounding screw, or is it really intended to be used with naked wire?


 

 

 

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13 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

Can a mini spade be held in place by the grounding screw, or is it really intended to be used with naked wire?

 

Sure, a mini-spade is fine.  The thumb-screws I am ordering have a typical flange.  It is a 6-32 size screw, so plenty small enough for a small spade.

 

Just a reminder to others reading:

Use of the ground screw is recommended only if whatever power supply you are using is “floated”—i.e. its DC output cable’s -VE (“ground”) is not actually common to AC mains ground. An example of such being our own UltraCap LPS-1.2.

But the UpTone-branded SMPS that will ship with every EtherREGEN (same custom unit as what we ship as charger for LPS-1.2) is internally ground-shunted. So when powering EtherREGEN with this stock supply it is not at all necessary to use the ground screw terminal.

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23 hours ago, Superdad said:

Use of the ground screw is recommended only if whatever power supply you are using is “floated”—i.e. its DC output cable’s -VE (“ground”) is not actually common to AC mains ground.

 

Alex: do you know whether SOtM sPS-1000 is floated? I asked them this question directly via email, and have not received a reply yet.

 

I already have this lying around, and would prefer to not spend the money to buy a new LPS

 

And if it floated, I would simply connect a Grounding cable from the etherRegen to the wall ground outlet?

 

Thanks!

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On 7/9/2019 at 3:09 PM, Superdad said:

As long as you are crossing the “moat” from one side to the other, the benefits of our special active isolation, ultra-low-hirer differential flip-flops, and femto clocking will be obtained. 

And even on the multi-jack side we made a number of efforts to passively isolate the ports from one another (12-core per port magnetics and center-tap grounding and capacitors).

 

In my NAP + NAA set up, does it make any sense to set up the EtherRegen so both PCs are getting a "clean" signal?  I was thinking of connecting my wireless bridge and NAA pc to the A side and my HQP pc to the B side. This way, the signal crosses the most twice, once going into my HQP pc from the wireless bridge and once going into my NAA pc from the HQP pc.  Or is all that matters is the final device getting the clean signal?

 


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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4 hours ago, thyname said:

Alex: do you know whether SOtM sPS-1000 is floated? I asked them this question directly via email, and have not received a reply yet.

 

I might indeed be floated--and dangerously so.  Take a look at the below photo and notice that the ground pin of the IEC AC inlet is not attached to anything (and there are just two wires going from that board to the transformer).  That is illegal and unsafe (except for double-insulated products, which the sPS-1000 is not).

SOtM_sPS-1000_Power_Supply_Open_2_1_63da7cf9-7005-4883-b987-feecaf1c9d9b_1296x.png.ad46b771461c5c889ba2383e733607af.png

 

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30 minutes ago, tboooe said:

In my NAP + NAA set up, does it make any sense to set up the EtherRegen so both PCs are getting a "clean" signal?  I was thinking of connecting my wireless bridge and NAA pc to the A side and my HQP pc to the B side. This way, the signal crosses the most twice, once going into my HQP pc from the wireless bridge and once going into my NAA pc from the HQP pc.  Or is all that matters is the final device getting the clean signal?

 

You have me a bit confused--about the crossing the moat twice stuff. You might need to post a diagram of your system. 

 

But again, there is no "clean side" or "dirty side."  There is just the moat separating the two clock/data/power domains.  And ideally the DAC-attached device is alone by itself on one side or the other. But its certainly okay to put two end-point renderer devices on the 'A' ports side and feed in from the rest of your network via the 'B' port.

 

Hope that helps. :)

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