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EtherREGEN: We are getting much closer!!

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On 6/1/2019 at 5:41 AM, JohnSwenson said:

 

 

It is important to understand what I mean by "grounding". It is NOT "earthing" (ie a ground rod). It means a connection the safety ground in your house wiring.  (the third prong in the plug) This works because the safety ground is connected to the neutral of the AC mains, this is what allows it to shunt the leakage current, NOT any "earthing".

 

John S.

Hi John.  

I do not have a great knowledge of electricity, but in different forums talking about "grounding", I have read that the technical specifications with which electrical networks are designed in the USA and in Europe are different.  

My question is;  With a Schuko connector, the metal side strips that make "grounding" would work just like the third hole in the USA connector?

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@nonesup

Earth or ground is the same all over the wold. Well almost. But if you’re not living in Norway or Albania, don’t bother 😀

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

 

Yes, the third hole as the UK or US sockets have, is the same function as that “metal stripe”. 

 

And to add som confusing the the subject, have some fun understanding this

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Well, what I would like to confirm is that in Europe, what John indicated for USA is also fulfilled: The safety ground is connected to the neutral of the AC mains, this is what it allows to shunt the leakage current, NOT any "earthing"  .

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

Sounds like a expensive test. And all said in this thread indicates you will loose the effects of the EtherRegen and only have the effects of the OM left, as your signal can’t be better than your last device in the chain.

You may on a good day, achieve something with two EtherRegen, but I doubt it. 

 

Also your dream about using your LPS-1.2 and a opticalRendu may not be so straightforward. You must as a start be 100% sure you don’t need Vbus power to have a good chance to succeed. Or purchase the JS-2. (I may do myself 😀)

 

Adding a IsoRegen to your MicroRendu will most likely have the same effect as purchasing an UltraRendu. And that is a cheap upgrade, well worth test out, as I think you can return it. 

 

And the big question is then, after adding the EtherRegen to the system, will adding a opticaRendu make it worth the cost, and any difference in SQ at all.

 

 

I use an LPS-1 to power the uR in my existing set-up; this then feeds a Holo Audio Spring via a modded Singxer SU-1. I assume the same set-up would work with the uR replaced by an OR in the future.

If I decide to upgrade before considering the step to an OR, there is a good chance that UltraRendus will be available on the used market - although I acknowledge your comment about an IsoRegen being cost effective.

Also, you’ve reminded me that the optical feed from the EtherREGEN is probably going to be better implemented than the conversion within the OM, so yes, it does seem to defeat the object doing anything other than going ‘optical direct’ into an OR.

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23 minutes ago, BlueDL said:

I assume the same set-up would work with the uR replaced by an OR in the future.

 

Now the fun starts.

We have to do this in another thread. Please read Rendu support thread, and optical module thread for last week posts. And also my latest post the LPS-1/1.2 thread.

You can also PM me. 

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17 hours ago, BlueDL said:

Hi. The scenario I described uses the clean port to feed (wired) the microrendu (no FMC here). The optical connection is made on the other side of the moat and its signal is derived from the router. At the router end, although an OpticalModule is probably the best option, I see nothing wrong in using a standard FMC to connect to duplex LC Multimode OM1 or OM2 fibre (at an eighth the price). Sure, if I were to use an FMC between the EtherREGEN and an OpticalRendu in future, it would need to be an OpticalModule fed with a clean 5V - agreed.

If you have the RJ45 on the B side (the single jack) connected to a streamer, what you do on the A side shouldn't matter. Thus coming into the A side with optical shouldn't make any difference. If you already have an optical network connection, use the optical input. The other use is if you have a renderer with an optical input you can use the EtherRegen the other way around and connect the optical port to the renderer  and the single RJ45 to the network.

 

John S.

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11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

If you have the RJ45 on the B side (the single jack) connected to a streamer, what you do on the A side shouldn't matter. Thus coming into the A side with optical shouldn't make any difference. If you already have an optical network connection, use the optical input. The other use is if you have a renderer with an optical input you can use the EtherRegen the other way around and connect the optical port to the renderer  and the single RJ45 to the network.

 

John S.

Thanks John. Yes, as I already have an optical feed from the router, I’ll be channelling into the EtherREGEN’s optical SFP port and outputting to a microrendu via the single RJ45. The upgrade path will be to swap that around one day.

Sorry if it’s already been stated earlier, but will the EtherREGEN come with an SFP Mini-GBIC transceiver (presumably duplex Multimode LC Type) already fitted, or is the onus on the end user to purchase one separately? Cheers.

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4 hours ago, BlueDL said:

Sorry if it’s already been stated earlier, but will the EtherREGEN come with an SFP Mini-GBIC transceiver (presumably duplex Multimode LC Type) already fitted, or is the onus on the end user to purchase one separately? Cheers.

 

Since the majority if EtherREGEN users will likely not be using an optical connection (little if any advantage versus copper due to our sophisticated design), we are not planning to include an SFP module.  Most Ethernet switches with SFP cages do not include the module—probably because they need to be matched at both ends.

 

Also, given that our bill-of-materials cost for the EtherRegen is already eating well into our usual modest profit margin (assuming we hold to our $600 target retail price), adding another $25-30 for an SFP optical transceiver is something we plan to avoid. B| I might stock a few dozen—of one type—so people will find it convenient to order. Or we may just provide links to some modest-price choices on Amazon or elsewhere.

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34 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Since the majority if EtherREGEN users will likely not be using an optical connection (little if any advantage versus copper due to our sophisticated design), we are not planning to include an SFP module.  Most Ethernet switches with SFP cages do not include the module—probably because they need to be matched at both ends.

 

Also, given that our bill-of-materials cost for the EtherRegen is already eating well into our usual modest profit margin (assuming we hold to our $600 target retail price), adding another $25-30 for an SFP optical transceiver is something we plan to avoid. B| I might stock a few dozen—of one type—so people will find it convenient to order. Or we may just provide links to some modest-price choices on Amazon or elsewhere.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

For me, it’s more about getting the recommended transceiver than there being any bonus inclusion in the package you’re offering. But as you stated, it’s a simple case of getting matched transceivers at the two ends with LC connectivity and gigabit capability (not 100MBps), and you make a valid point that there will be potential buyers who already have established optical solutions (with transceiver choice already made).

 

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On 6/3/2019 at 8:32 AM, Superdad said:

 

Since the majority if EtherREGEN users will likely not be using an optical connection (little if any advantage versus copper due to our sophisticated design), we are not planning to include an SFP module.  Most Ethernet switches with SFP cages do not include the module—probably because they need to be matched at both ends.

 

Also, given that our bill-of-materials cost for the EtherRegen is already eating well into our usual modest profit margin (assuming we hold to our $600 target retail price), adding another $25-30 for an SFP optical transceiver is something we plan to avoid. B| I might stock a few dozen—of one type—so people will find it convenient to order. Or we may just provide links to some modest-price choices on Amazon or elsewhere.

Dang. I was hoping there'd be an SFP dock on the EtherREGEN; my unorthodox configuration requirements means I need an Ethernet switch in front of (that is, ahead of) of my upstream FMC. Guess I can still use the "audiophile" RJ45 output jack on the EtherREGEN for connecting to my current upstream FMC. 

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26 minutes ago, incus said:

That's not what he said. He said no module. There is still a "dock." You will just have to source your own module.

That's great news, thanks for the information; I missed that, scanning too fast! ;) 

 

I will just use the SystemOptique specified SFP Optical Transceiver I just received today. 

 

Thank you very much for the info. 

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On 6/2/2019 at 5:51 AM, BlueDL said:

I use an LPS-1 to power the uR in my existing set-up; this then feeds a Holo Audio Spring via a modded Singxer SU-1. I assume the same set-up would work with the uR replaced by an OR in the future.

If I decide to upgrade before considering the step to an OR, there is a good chance that UltraRendus will be available on the used market - although I acknowledge your comment about an IsoRegen being cost effective.

Also, you’ve reminded me that the optical feed from the EtherREGEN is probably going to be better implemented than the conversion within the OM, so yes, it does seem to defeat the object doing anything other than going ‘optical direct’ into an OR.

 

a while back, i had an ultraRendu feeding a usb==>aes/ebu box  (tried singxer and sotm dx-usbHD).

i had an lps-1.2 on the converter and a lps-1 on the Rendu.

then i purchased a second lps-1.2 for the ultraRendu and the improvement was large, even with a converter after the Rendu.

 

Lesson==>everything may or can matter...........we are still scratching the surface of what is going on here

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1 hour ago, cat6man said:

 

a while back, i had an ultraRendu feeding a usb==>aes/ebu box  (tried singxer and sotm dx-usbHD).

i had an lps-1.2 on the converter and a lps-1 on the Rendu.

then i purchased a second lps-1.2 for the ultraRendu and the improvement was large, even with a converter after the Rendu.

 

Lesson==>everything may or can matter...........we are still scratching the surface of what is going on here

Interesting to hear that. I agree, it seems like voodoo and will continue to until science catches up.

 

From what I gather, anyone upgrading to an OR will be faced with replacing the LPS-1.2. The Sonore webpage for the OR suggests as much anyway.

The JS-2 would probably be the way to go then.

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Been thinking a lot about going for either the EtherRegen or the OpticalRendu

 

I like the products from both these companies but cost comes into it..

 

With the LPS1.2 not working on the OpticalRendu (thus requiring a new power supply) plus the cost of an OpticalModule the $$ add up.  I’m sure it’s worth it but then I only bought my Ultrarendu and LPS1.2 a year ago (and the microrendu and LPS1 the year before that)

 

On the other hand the EtherREGEN can make use of one of my old LPS1’s and in theory should do much of what the OpticalRendu does in terms of isolation (and I get to keep the LPS1.2 powering my renderer).  Only positive I can see with the OpticalRendu is that it’s supposed to be a bit more than an UltraRendu with an optical input so I would be missing out on those gains..

 

Still - it’s exciting times that we have this choice from two fine companies

 

But I will hold off making a decision until initial impressions come through on the EtherRegen - and it wouldn’t surprise me if in 6 months I end up with both when the LPS1.3 comes out!!

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Note that the LPS-1 is iffy powering an EtherREGEN, it MAY work if you just have one connection on the A side, but we are not going to guarantee that. The LPS-1.2, when set to 12V, WILL power an EtherREGEN in any configuration.

 

John S.

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No probs - I’ll continue to use the lps-1 on the isoregen, continuing to be astonished at how I always prefer the sonics with it as the last input to the dac. Getting the RME ADI-2 in a few days & I’ll see if it still holds true for that, for me.

 

Have I developed an odd form of ‘regen’ addiction ...?


elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>macmini (16gb ram-ssd-js2 psu-mmk)[hd(naq psu)]>netgear gs105 switch[clones psu])>ghent js ethernet>ultraRendu(js-2)>uspbc>iso regen(lps-1/naq psu)>curious link>rme adi-2 dac>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2xnaq12” passive subs.

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7 hours ago, Superdad said:

Okay gang:

After many days and nights of John's painstaking--and mind-numbing--labor, along with a few last critical surprise part changes based on availability (for the better), the final layout and routing of EtherREGEN is done!!  And the pre-production boards are on order.

 

Below is the board (remember this is a 6-layer board so not everything is visible); The wide grey line that cuts across is the moat between the 'A' side and the isolated 'B' side.

365 parts total (though 300 of them are tiny, but specially chosen capacitors and resistors).  That's a lot of parts for a board that is just 100mm x 106mm.

 

Now we wait a few weeks for the boards to be produced--and hope that they work perfect or need only a few tweaks.  I am paying in advance for procurement of all the PCB parts for the first 250 unit run.  About $60K up front.  Color me excited and nervous...9_9

 

This is no ordinary Ethernet switch!

 

64254135_EtherREGEN0_9D.thumb.gif.f31de52e875469889954e0f51670419c.gif

 

Next up: A dear friend and industrial designer/architect is doing the CAD work for the milling and silkscreening of the casework.  We'll be collaborating to get all the openings and labels just right so that I can get the enclosures on order shortly.

 

We'll done to you both! I'm sure many here are biting at the chomp. 

 

Should you sell out the first batch, how long before you restock? 


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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Congratulations and tks for sharing the update!!!

Cheers,

Jorge,

 


AMP: Electrocompaniet ECI-6D; DAC: Chord Qutest, iFi iDSD BL, Oppo 205, ECI-6D; Streamer/endpoint: Sonic transporter i5 + uRendu

Speakers: Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature; CD/SACD: Oppo 205

Cables: Speakers (Acoustic Revive) + RCA (au24sx) + RJ45 (Vodka Audioquest) + USB (Diamond Audioquest) + Power (Pangea's + Actinote's)  

Filters: Jensen VRD- iFF + Pink Faun Isolator + Acoustic revive ground isolator RGC-24

Switch: Cisco Catalyst 2960 8 Port

Others: Sboosters MKII + HDplex 200  

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12 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

That's from the little-known remix of the classic Who song: Talkin' 'bout my Regen-addiction! :D

SOME-body has been working WAAAAY- too hard in the San Joaquin summer heat...........

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4 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

Should you sell out the first batch, how long before you restock? 

 

Even if we pre-sell out of the first run of 250 (quite possible since our handful of dealers have in total already reserved about 75 units), I do not think there would be much more than a 2-week gap come delivery time. Here is why:

a) UpTone policy is to never take customer money for orders without quoting a firm date of shipment (That also holds true for existing products, including our popular, 25 per-month, hand-built JS-2; It boggles my mind that some firms take money for products which don't get delivered for months or even years!)

b) We will begin accepting orders as soon as both the cases and production circuit boards are on order with known incoming delivery dates. (We will inform of the date/time everyone here and everyone on our mailing list--which you are if you EVER bought something from us, had some e-mail correspondence with me, or signed up for our "newsletter" on our home page.)

c) If during the first hours/days/weeks of first open order period we get close to reaching 175 units sold (remember, we are setting aside 75 of the 250 unit run for the dealers), then I will of course place production orders for more boards and cases right away.  So depending upon dates of vendor purchase and delivery, the second run of EtherREGENs would, in the end, could be delivered to customers just a couple weeks after the first batch.  

 

The above all assumes I don't screw up, and assumes no critical silicone chip availability shortages.  Having done this dance a few times before (REGENs, UltraCaps, etc.), I am not sweating too much just yet. 9_9

It's things like writing the User Guide and the product web page that I dread.  Where is that Marketing Assistant who thinks and writes like I do--only better and faster? x-D

 

Good times ahead! (As long as the pre-production boards don't have any nasty surprises)

 

2 hours ago, alecm said:

What are the requirements for external psu? 

Amps, volts?

 

7~12 +VDC.  We are not quoting exact amperage requirements until we have and test the final pre-production boards--with various ports and speeds active.  As mentioned previously, we have carefully estimated and budgeted the current draw through all 13 of the regulators and are confident that the 1.1A UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to 12V will power it easily (guessing somewhere around 800mA).  At lower voltages the unit will draw more current.

 

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