Popular Post Superdad Posted June 12, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 hours ago, LowMidHigh said: I wonder quite the same. I installed a nighthawk after my ZET fiber optics modem/router, and the boost in SQ was out of this world. Truly, one of the most significant upgrades to my system ever, which I'm hard pressed to believe anything can improve one (one of my systems now is in a state of nirvana) . Can the EtherREGEN make it sound even better? Well that is the point! Though of course everyone will just have to wait to find out. I too have experienced the nice boost that a decent switch can make. This particular Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960-8TC-S -- originally about $600, now $22 used on eBay was a lovely and surprising enhancement to my system (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Cisco-WS-C2960-8TC-S-Catalyst-2960-Series-8-1T-SFP-Port-Switch-LAN-Lite/282887525803?). Biggest bang for the buck I ever got. (thanks for the tip @lmitche!) But what we are attempting with the architecture of the EtherREGEN is completely different that what is in any other Ethernet switch anywhere on the planet! What we are doing with-- active, high-speed, low-litter differential isolators, coupled with 10GHz-capable ultra-low jitter differential flip-flops on both sides of the moat, all fed by femto clocking (Crystek CCHD-575; with BNC jack for the total crazies who have a 10MHz reference clock to spare), and all surrounded by a dozen of the lowest noise, lowest impedance integrated voltage regulators available (LT3042 & LT3045), supporting both the voltage regulators and the data chips with 195 pieces of low-inductance, X7R and X5R capacitors sized and selected by their derating curves, plus specially chosen Ethernet port magnetics (with 12-cores per jack), --will all result in dual isolated clock/data/power domains, blockage of all external leakage currents, vast reduction in upstream phase-noise fingerprint, and utmost siginal integrity. Will the above sophisticated efforts matter? (I sure hope so because John worked very hard on the design for over a year--and all the parts to this are really expensive. ) Let's put it this way: If any of you currently hear any differences with any aspect of your networking gear, then just on paper the EtherREGEN should prove to be orders of magnitude better. Is that multi-antenna gaming router designed with any focus on the things that we believe are relevant for a quiet Ethernet switch for audio? Nope. And presently all the Ethernet switches being offered by audio companies are not even "from-scratch" designs--they are mostly just clock and power supply mods to off-the-shelf $30 units. SOtM's sNH-10G is the sole exception, but they have already shown that it is based on a combination of the passive Ethernet transfomer/filter network of their early iSO-CAT6 and their ubiquitous sCLK-EX clock board. (The irony being that their clock board has 4 available outputs but they use only one--because it not an active-isolation switch with dual domains as we have.) We too use a Silicon Labs clock synthesizer chip--a much newer model--yet we place ours millimeters and centimeters from the parts as opposed to at the end of a 6-inch coax cable. And we use all 4 outputs. Please excuse if I seem prematurely immodest about the EtherREGEN--especially since it is not yet in users' systems and we do prefer to let UpTone products to simply prove themselves. Posts like this are helpful exercise for me as I approach writing the web page for the product. I have no interest in writing empty “marketing” pitches—I’d rather talk facts and tech. Yet I have enthusiasm and focus when replying to user questions. So when staring at a blank page I may look back at posts like this for inspiration and bits of text to copy. Sorry, I am a big fan of Tom Hanks and of his stupid David S. Pumpkins SNL character. Thanks and good night, --Alex C. Bricki, LowMidHigh, soares and 1 other 2 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Superdad said: Well that is the point! Though of course everyone will just have to wait to find out. I too have experienced the nice boost that a decent switch can make. This particular Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960-8TC-S -- originally about $600, now $22 used on eBay was a lovely and surprising enhancement to my system (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Cisco-WS-C2960-8TC-S-Catalyst-2960-Series-8-1T-SFP-Port-Switch-LAN-Lite/282887525803?). Biggest bang for the buck I ever got. (thanks for the tip @lmitche!) But what we are attempting with the architecture of the EtherREGEN is completely different that what is in any other Ethernet switch anywhere on the planet! What we are doing with-- active, high-speed, low-litter differential isolators, coupled with 10GHz-capable ultra-low jitter differential flip-flops on both sides of the moat, all fed by femto clocking (Crystek CCHD-575; with BNC jack for the total crazies who have a 10MHz reference clock to spare), and all surrounded by a dozen of the lowest noise, lowest impedance integrated voltage regulators available (LT3042 & LT3045), supporting both the voltage regulators and the data chips with 195 pieces of low-inductance, X7R and X5R capacitors sized and selected by their derating curves, plus specially chosen Ethernet port magnetics (with 12-cores per jack), --will all result in dual isolated clock/data/power domains, blockage of all external leakage currents, vast reduction in upstream phase-noise fingerprint, and utmost siginal integrity. Will the above sophisticated efforts matter? (I sure hope so because John worked very hard on the design for over a year--and all the parts to this are really expensive. ) Let's put it this way: If any of you currently hear any differences with any aspect of your networking gear, then just on paper the EtherREGEN should prove to be orders of magnitude better. Is that multi-antenna gaming router designed with any focus on the things that we believe are relevant for a quiet Ethernet switch for audio? Nope. And presently all the Ethernet switches being offered by audio companies are not even "from-scratch" designs--they are mostly just clock and power supply mods to off-the-shelf $30 units. SOtM's sNH-10G is the sole exception, but they have already shown that it is based on a combination of the passive Ethernet transfomer/filter network of their early iSO-CAT6 and their ubiquitous sCLK-EX clock board. (The irony being that their clock board has 4 available outputs but they use only one--because it not an active-isolation switch with dual domains as we have.) We too use a Silicon Labs clock synthesizer chip--a much newer model--yet we place ours millimeters and centimeters from the parts as opposed to at the end of a 6-inch coax cable. And we use all 4 outputs. Please excuse if I seem prematurely immodest about the EtherREGEN--especially since it is not yet in users' systems and we do prefer to let UpTone products to simply prove themselves. Posts like this are helpful exercise for me as I approach writing the web page for the product. I have no interest in writing empty “marketing” pitches—I’d rather talk facts and tech. Yet I have enthusiasm and focus when replying to user questions. So when staring at a blank page I may look back at posts like this for inspiration and bits of text to copy. Sorry, I am a big fan of Tom Hanks and of his stupid David S. Pumpkins SNL character. Thanks and good night, --Alex C. Awesome! No way I'm not kicking the tires on that baby. You mentioned the BNC port. I'm one of those locos with a REF10. Guilty as charged. Have you settled on the default impedance? Superdad 1 Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 hours ago, LowMidHigh said: You mentioned the BNC port. I'm one of those locos with a REF10. Guilty as charged. Have you settled on the default impedance? Yes. 75 ohms. With 50 ohms a limited special request option. Assuming I remember to have our board house not solder the BNC or load resistors on a few boards—to set aside and make into 50 ohm units here as needed. LowMidHigh 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, charlesphoto said: I think no matter how one goes, oM, oR, or eR, one will see huge gains. I agree, though I cringe when I see our simple and descriptive product names reduced to abbreviations so soon. It's EtherREGEN! Would it have helped if we had named it some complicated cluster of letters and numbers? UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
charlesphoto Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, Superdad said: I agree, though I cringe when I see our simple and descriptive product names reduced to abbreviations so soon. It's EtherREGEN! Would it have helped if we had named it some complicated cluster of letters and numbers? Ah, I thought it was kind of cute. Or maybe it's the photographer in me (cameras tend to be two to three letter/number designations). Sorry 'bout that. SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, charlesphoto said: Ah, I thought it was kind of cute. Or maybe it's the photographer in me (cameras tend to be two to three letter/number designations). Sorry 'bout that. It’s okay. I was just kidding.. But really, I think a name has to either be three letters or two syllables to avoid getting abbreviated. Even then, for years our two syllable son Owen was just called ‘O’. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Nenon Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Was the final (or estimated) price determined yet? Sorry if I missed a post... kind of a long thread. Thank you. Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
thyname Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Nenon said: Was the final (or estimated) price determined yet? Sorry if I missed a post... kind of a long thread. Thank you. Not sure if it’s final, but $600 was mentioned a few times here recently Nenon 1 Link to comment
Bones13 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 It has crept upwards as the high quality parts, in multiples on each board keep adding up. But yes it is still not been specified, except to say that they take actual part price, and then add what I consider to be a low overhead/margin percentage and create the price from that. These guys are both OCD about products, and customer experience/service, yet don’t apply silly “voodoo” prices, or attitudes to their products. I was perfectly happy with my microRendu until my spouse approved my Bricasti after I got a nice bonus. (Living thru 2 children’s weddings was also part of that) etherRegen is coming soon. I’m starting to get excited personally. Superdad 1 [Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers [Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL) [Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite [Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys Link to comment
Confused Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 For those of us in the UK, and maybe Europe, are there any plans in place for some of the early(ish) batches to find their way to Audiostore Vortexbox? Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Confused said: For those of us in the UK, and maybe Europe, are there any plans in place for some of the early(ish) batches to find their way to Audiostore Vortexbox? Absolutely! Martin at Audiostore/Vortexbox (our main dealer for Europe) already has a reservation for a nice number of EtherREGENs. He will receive them via FedEx the same week we begin shipping to all direct orders. https://www.vortexbox.co.uk And in Hong Kong, AfterDark. will be receiving a large number of units (he has been taking reservations for a while--but a month ago I invited that he stop taking deposits since that is not how UpTone rolls): https://www.adark.co/collections/uptone-audio UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Confused Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Superdad said: Absolutely! Martin at Audiostore/Vortexbox (our main dealer for Europe) already has a reservation for a nice number of EtherREGENs. He will receive them via FedEx the same week we begin shipping to all direct orders. https://www.vortexbox.co.uk And in Hong Kong, AfterDark. will be receiving a large number of units (he has been taking reservations for a while--but a month ago I invited that he stop taking deposits since that is not how UpTone rolls): https://www.adark.co/collections/uptone-audio Good news! I have had a few dealings in the past with Martin, always top class service. Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted June 13, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Nenon said: Was the final (or estimated) price determined yet? 6 hours ago, thyname said: Not sure if it’s final, but $600 was mentioned a few times here recently. 4 hours ago, Bones13 said: It has crept upwards as the high quality parts, in multiples on each board keep adding up. But yes it is still not been specified, except to say that they take actual part price, and then add what I consider to be a low overhead/margin percentage and create the price from that. I've been sharpening my pencil all week--now that we have exact quotations for PCB production costs, and the entire parts bill-of-materials has been priced out to the penny. The boards are going to cost us quite a bit more than anticipated. As s 6-layer board the bare PCBs are twice what the price of the same sized 4-layer board (as used in UltraCap for example). And a very key isolating power regulator was just changed to a more available, better, larger, and more expensive model. Plus there are 8 QFN package parts on the board that have to get x-ray inspected (hidden pins), and that drives up PCB labor a few dollars. Our original $600 estimate has actually proven to be pretty darn close. My business model--for products that do not require a lot of in-house labor (we flash program, test, and put in cases)--is to double parts cost. (This works because of our low overhead--I don't have a whole staff of people, just production assistants.) Doubling our total in the box cost would make the retail $630. (Out of which I then pay John a decent per-unit royalty for the engineering.) So price will be somewhere between $610 and $630. I need a few days to ponder the larger picture (total expected sales, support load, the impact of the modest 15% discount and free-freight we give our overseas dealers). Then I'll announce a firm retail price. I'd love to price it lower--we like to make our products as affordable as possible to as many people as possible. That's our philosophy. Of course most other companies much more than double their parts cost. The truth is, we could charge $1,200 and from a technology-built-in and performance perspective we would still be the better deal. That's just not our way... Quote etherRegen is coming soon. I’m starting to get excited personally. Thanks! You are not alone. John and I are pretty excited too. There is still a good bit of work to be done (testing, final clock-phasing and Ethernet switch chip programming, and building of the jigs and microprocessors programmers for production). But he is working on that stuff while we are waiting on the final pre-production boards. Nenon, skatbelt, Puma Cat and 3 others 1 4 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
thyname Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Superdad said: You are not alone. John and I are pretty excited too. So.... July launch? soares 1 Link to comment
pas Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Puma Cat said: Alex, I may have missed this, but what will be the voltage requiremets for EtherREGEN? Thanks, Stephen aka PC 7-12 Link to comment
Puma Cat Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, pas said: 7-12 Cool, then I could use my LPS-1 if I wanted to, then. Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs. Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Puma Cat said: Cool, then I could use my LPS-1 if I wanted to, then. Maybe, maybe not. Won’t know for sure until we measure the 7V draw of the preproduction boards. The 12V capable LPS-1.2 will be fine as EtherREGEN will draw less current at 12V than at 7V. Seem this post for more detail: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/?do=findComment&comment=960560 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Ricardo007 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Two questions to Alex Super Duper DAD (like me): you have etherregen in your system (soon hopefully) but you want to upgrade your router (the next frontier...) high end routers have features like: - 10Gb SFP+ ports: can this be used in association with Etherregen and how? what benefits if any... - link aggregation of 2 rj45 ports doubling transmission speed: is Etherregen compatible with this? Richard Link to comment
afrancois Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Ricardo007 said: Two questions to Alex Super Duper DAD (like me): you have etherregen in your system (soon hopefully) but you want to upgrade your router (the next frontier...) high end routers have features like: - 10Gb SFP+ ports: can this be used in association with Etherregen and how? what benefits if any... - link aggregation of 2 rj45 ports doubling transmission speed: is Etherregen compatible with this? Richard I'm not Superdad, but let me answer the question anyway. SFP is more than for audo. My main switch has two SFP and SFP+ ports, while my other switches have two SFP ports. I will be using the two SFP+ for other purposes than audio. Probably for a high speed NAS that has nothing do to with my audio rig. Perhaps my recent post will be of interest to you. Link to comment
cat6man Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 6/11/2019 at 1:37 PM, Superdad said: Nah, it's just that our youngest child is graduating from high-school this Friday--and I'm a bit giddy about getting closer to being "empty nesters." but now you'll have to mow your lawn yourself, leaving less time for electronics Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted June 19, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2019 As those of you following this thread already know, final pre-production EtherREGEN boards are on order (and I already paid the $$$ for parts for the entire first production run of 250 so that we get any chip availability surprises out of the way now). These first few completed boards (see: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/?do=findComment&comment=964965) should arrive to us July 2nd. In the meanwhile, John has built a test board to use in developing the code and process to use in flashing the microprocessors which will load code into the clock synthesizer and Ethernet switch chip each time the EtherREGEN is powered on. Somewhere else I outlined the very elegant system he is devising to handling both the clock synth code that has to automatically change if an external reference clock is used--and to provide easy provision for field firmware updates (hopefully never needed). Look to the very bottom of this long post: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/?do=findComment&comment=960560). Here is a photo of the programming test board. I am happy he has done this since it allowing him to do a lot of the programming stuff while we wait for the EtherREGEN boards. rickca, pl_svn, agladstone and 4 others 1 5 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
thotdoc Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Superdad- No one who knows you or your company is buying based on price. You've put in the work; make a solid profit. If people want/need the product, 25$ or 50$ more per unit will not make a real difference in sales and it may make a real difference in your profitability. Superdad 1 Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
soares Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Superdad said: As those of you following this thread already know, final pre-production EtherREGEN boards are on order (and I already paid the $$$ for parts for the entire first production run of 250 so that we get any chip availability surprises out of the way now). These first few completed boards (see: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/?do=findComment&comment=964965) should arrive to us July 2nd. In the meanwhile, John has built a test board to use in developing the code and process to use in flashing the microprocessors which will load code into the clock synthesizer and Ethernet switch chip each time the EtherREGEN is powered on. Somewhere else I outlined the very elegant system he is devising to handling both the clock synth code that has to automatically change if an external reference clock is used--and to provide easy provision for field firmware updates (hopefully never needed). Look to the very bottom of this long post: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/?do=findComment&comment=960560). Here is a photo of the programming test board. I am happy he has done this since it allowing him to do a lot of the programming stuff while we wait for the EtherREGEN boards. Great job!!! Any possIble dates for ordering? I need to adjust my holidays... 🙂 Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Great, thank you so much for the info! Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 5:48 AM, soares said: Any possIble dates for ordering? Depends upon how smoothly final testing of the pre-production boards goes in early July. Here is how it will go: The moment we are 100% satisfied that every detail is working perfectly, we will tell our Canadian PCB house to proceed with production of the first 250 unit run. Based on the delivery dates they--and our enclosure manufacturer in Japan--provide, we will then calculate and publish a firm date for delivery to our customers (giving us a few days to flash, test, assemble, ship). Such date will be not more than about 4-weeks beyond because our board house gives us a 20-business-day turn. Then and only then will the (yet to be written) EtherREGEN web page show an AddToCart button to accept orders/payments. The AddToCart button will go "live" on a Tuesday at 9:00 Pacific time, and the announcement of that happening will occur the weekend prior--via e-mail to our list and here on AS/CA (in this thread and in a new one). Quote I need to adjust my holidays... 🙂 Well that's a sad thought. But really, no need to adjust because you can place your order from your phone from anywhere in the world. Delivery will not occur until about 4 weeks after the order-launch as explained above. soares 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
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