EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[MarkusBarkus]

17 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Also I stay away from multi mode and 850nm VCSEL laser. But it’s cheaper. 

...but to be clear for readers and possibly new users: there is nothing inherently wrong with a Multi-Mode solution.
 

Certainly, many users here are on Single-Mode configs--I am currently on Single Mode fiber--but it would not be unreasonable for anyone to use the MM solution. 

I have listened to both over 35' and it's not much of a difference. I did my proof-of-concept on the MM "bundle" recommended in these threads. 

[soares]

1 hour ago, thyname said:

Hello my friend Jorge! Hope all is well with you. Still in US?

 

I tried all there is:

 

1) Double opticalModules I had prior to EtherRegen 

 

2) Mutec Ref10 SE 120

 

My impressions (granted, all subjective, my own): EtherRegen is as good as it gets without any of these. One thing that I did experience a subtle improvement: a nice linear power supply like Keces.

 

‘’Cheers!

Hello my dear Skerdi! It’s somehow weird the results you’re getting but if I remember well you’ve got a statement. So both your Ethernet and USB are well served not just with the two included clocks but also top quality electric signal designed by Sean Jacobs. That might explain your findings. However for the rest of us it’s probably a different story... ☺️
As you can see from my current equipment: 

Router>Rj45>oM>SFP>
Buffalo2016>SFP>oM>Rj45>Innuos Zen MK3>Rj45>eR>
SFP>oR>USB>RUR>
USB>iR>USB>
DAC.

I use fiber every where I could and the benefits are cumulative. Also please note that the eR after the Zen is quite more effective than before...

And yes still here for a couple of months. I’ll be moving to Brussels by August, unfortunately without the new devices that are being developed by John for UpTone. I guess I will buy them from Europe! 
😂😂😂

 

[GryphonGuy]

On 3/18/2021 at 8:10 AM, R1200CL said:

We’re not discussing that, but yes, that’s what you need. My statement stays. That specific module won’t work. 
Also I stay away from multi mode and 850nm VCSEL laser. But it’s cheaper. 

 

Why don't you try it yourself instead of denouncing people whos reputation relies on their statements.  We live in a practical world, not a purely academic one.

 

Chicken Little never actually achieved much other than to incite his community into panic and then be an outcast with his lack of evidence.

[ASRMichael]

@Superdadwe are now seeing more people using SFP cards for servers. Do you have any plans for EtherRegen 2.0 to have 2 SFP ports? Would be great to have two. One SFP for home network & one to server SFP. 

[Superdad]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:10 PM, ASRMichael said:

@Superdadwe are now seeing more people using SFP cards for servers. Do you have any plans for EtherRegen 2.0 to have 2 SFP ports? Would be great to have two. One SFP for home network & one to server SFP. 

 

Thanks, but we do not currently have plans to release a new EtherREGEN.  I wrote about the possibility here:

 

 

[johnwilk]

Dropped an EtherRegen between optical ethernet cable and Lumin U1 (to Bricasti M3) in place of the Sonore optical module. I didn't expect anything like the  change in sound I experienced. Upsampling in Roon to DSD, which worked best with the optical module, now sounds much too soft, while switching to no DSP gives me an unprecedented liveliness without digital edge. It has been a great upgrade which I'd resisted because I didn't see any reason why it should make much difference.

[R1200CL]

43 minutes ago, johnwilk said:

It has been a great upgrade which I'd resisted because I didn't see any reason why it should make much difference.

So, next is a external clock to EtherRegen 😀

 

Are you using the optical module upfront the EtherRegen? And if yes, do you think it makes a difference as others have reported or not ?

[johnwilk]

No, I took out the optical module. But now you raise the question I might feel the itch to experiment...

[PYP]

7 minutes ago, johnwilk said:

No, I took out the optical module. But now you raise the question I might feel the itch to experiment...

me too, once the second eR had settled in.  Sometimes less is more (or makes no difference when removed).  

 

Personally, I don't think that optical is a magic solution.  Just like everything else, it depends upon implementation.   

[kennyb123]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:18 AM, PYP said:

Personally, I don't think that optical is a magic solution.  Just like everything else, it depends upon implementation.  

True that.

[audiobomber]

@Superdad Any update on expected delivery of outstanding EtherREGEN orders?

I ordered in late December.

Also, do you send any sort of notification or tracking link when you do ship?

[Superdad]

13 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

@Superdad Any update on expected delivery of outstanding EtherREGEN orders?

I ordered in late December.

Also, do you send any sort of notification or tracking link when you do ship?

 

Funny you should mention this as I was about to post an update today--once I took a break from the drudgery of writing, printing, and signing the export commercial invoices for the 50 international EtherREGEN shipments going in the morning.

 

So as some might know, though I admit I have not been posting a lot about the details because we are just too darn busy:

This next batch of 225 of EtherREGENs (bringing it to about 3,200 sold since November 2019!) has, due to circuit board delivery dates been split into 3 separate guaranteed ship dates. 

105 unit orders from mid-November to early-January, with the highest order number being #12602--were all promised for shipment by January 31st.  

Our boards arrived more than 10 days later than expected--or we would have shipped earlier than promised as is our style. But they made it in time for us to work day and night this past week and weekend (flash-programming, testing, affixing heat sinks, assembling, packaging, and packing) so that we can ship precisely on-time tomorrow!  

Here's a pic from the shop 10 minutes ago:

 

 

Order numbers 12603 through 12655 (plus some dealer orders we split in half to be able to fill all January 31st-promised users) were promised (at time of order on web page and in acknowledgment e-mail) a date of February 22nd.  We are still on track for that.

We already have the cases half-assembled (feet and front plates attached) as seen here:

 

 

Order numbers 12656 and above--including new orders placed now--are promised to ship by March 23rd (though I think we will beat that date--perhaps by as much as a week).  There are probably less than a dozen spots left available from that March batch--so users on the fence best get their orders in now if they want to receive an EtherREGEN in the first half of 2022.

 

Due to global parts shortages, after the above 3 batches of EtherREGEN are shipped off, there is going to be a VERY long wait for more. [As it is, this last batch of boards cost us a LOT more to make as I spent much of Q3 2021 paying nose-bleed prices to chip-scalpers for a bunch of short-supply critical chips. ] If people knew what we went through to produce these last 225 they would realize how lucky they are to even obtain one.  A lot of parts are on back-order well into 2023!

 

In fact, once we are sold out (and I'll be stopping short to keep a few boards on hand for rare repair needs), I will remove the AddToCart button from the EtherREGEN web page as my personal/professional ethics prohibit us from accepting orders without being certain of a delivery date. It really hurts to be putting the brakes on the EtherREGEN train--when there is still tons of demand, new press and awards coming, and a large pile of international dealers who have asked to carry us.

But we see a path forward and will post more in due time.

---

 

Oh, almost forgot to answer @audiobomber's question: Yes, a notice with tracking number will be sent tomorrow afternoon. (It is sent automatically from the same e-commerce system that sent the order acknowledgment on the day you ordered--so if you never received that, check your SPAM folder. Normally giving us an alternate e-mail to test/use would be no problem, but tomorrow's shipping labels have all been printed and the tracking notice will be sent to whatever e-mail address was originally given.)

 

By the way:

ALL SHIPMENTS are going via fast FedEx Express*.  Even all the domestic orders that chose Priority Mail for $9 are being upgraded at not charge to FedEx 2nd-day!

Just my way of saying thanks for your enthusiasm--and your patience in awaiting a fine EtherREGEN. 

(* FedEx does not deliver to private parties in Russia, so those few units are going via Express Mail/EMS.)

 

--Alex C.

 

[audiobomber]

That's awesome, thank you!

 

Yours Truly,

#12549 😁👌

[Encore]

11 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Funny you should mention this as I was about to post an update today--once I took a break from the drudgery of writing, printing, and signing the export commercial invoices for the 50 international EtherREGEN shipments going in the morning.

 

So as some might know, though I admit I have not been posting a lot about the details because we are just too darn busy:

This next batch of 225 of EtherREGENs (bringing it to about 3,200 sold since November 2019!) has, due to circuit board delivery dates been split into 3 separate guaranteed ship dates. 

105 unit orders from mid-November to early-January, with the highest order number being #12602--were all promised for shipment by January 31st.  

Our boards arrived more than 10 days later than expected--or we would have shipped earlier than promised as is our style. But they made it in time for us to work day and night this past week and weekend (flash-programming, testing, affixing heat sinks, assembling, packaging, and packing) so that we can ship precisely on-time tomorrow!  

Here's a pic from the shop 10 minutes ago:

 

 

Order numbers 12603 through 12655 (plus some dealer orders we split in half to be able to fill all January 31st-promised users) were promised (at time of order on web page and in acknowledgment e-mail) a date of February 22nd.  We are still on track for that.

We already have the cases half-assembled (feet and front plates attached) as seen here:

 

 

Order numbers 12656 and above--including new orders placed now--are promised to ship by March 23rd (though I think we will beat that date--perhaps by as much as a week).  There are probably less than a dozen spots left available from that March batch--so users on the fence best get their orders in now if they want to receive an EtherREGEN in the first half of 2022.

 

Due to global parts shortages, after the above 3 batches of EtherREGEN are shipped off, there is going to be a VERY long wait for more. [As it is, this last batch of boards cost us a LOT more to make as I spent much of Q3 2021 paying nose-bleed prices to chip-scalpers for a bunch of short-supply critical chips. ] If people knew what we went through to produce these last 225 they would realize how lucky they are to even obtain one.  A lot of parts are on back-order well into 2023!

 

In fact, once we are sold out (and I'll be stopping short to keep a few boards on hand for rare repair needs), I will remove the AddToCart button from the EtherREGEN web page as my personal/professional ethics prohibit us from accepting orders without being certain of a delivery date. It really hurts to be putting the brakes on the EtherREGEN train--when there is still tons of demand, new press and awards coming, and a large pile of international dealers who have asked to carry us.

But we see a path forward and will post more in due time.

---

 

Oh, almost forgot to answer @audiobomber's question: Yes, a notice with tracking number will be sent tomorrow afternoon. (It is sent automatically from the same e-commerce system that sent the order acknowledgment on the day you ordered--so if you never received that, check your SPAM folder. Normally giving us an alternate e-mail to test/use would be no problem, but tomorrow's shipping labels have all been printed and the tracking notice will be sent to whatever e-mail address was originally given.)

 

By the way:

ALL SHIPMENTS are going via fast FedEx Express*.  Even all the domestic orders that chose Priority Mail for $9 are being upgraded at not charge to FedEx 2nd-day!

Just my way of saying thanks for your enthusiasm--and your patience in awaiting a fine EtherREGEN. 

(* FedEx does not deliver to private parties in Russia, so those few units are going via Express Mail/EMS.)

 

--Alex C.

 

Very good to see. I have an order placed at Metawave in Sweden for my second eR. I'm not in a hurry, though, so make sure to take care of yourselves!

[Mihaylov]

18 hours ago, Superdad said:

FedEx does not deliver to private parties in Russia, so those few units are going via Express Mail/EMS.

Thank you Alex for remembering this! 🙂

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, Encore said:

Very good to see. I have an order placed at Metawave in Sweden for my second eR. I'm not in a hurry, though, so make sure to take care of yourselves!

Well even though only half of Metawave's order is shipping today--the other half will ship from the February boards--Joel told me that these fist units will cover all the client orders he already had, as of early last week.  So unless you ordered from him in just the past few days, his shipment--which should get delivered within a week--will contain "your" unit. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Mihaylov said:

Thank you Alex for remembering this! 🙂

What is it they say?: Both god and the devil are in the details...

To me, a sale is never complete until the product is delivered, installed in the music system, and putting a smile on the listener's face. 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, rtsusc83 said:

Alex, many thanks!  I received mine today. Hooked up and running! Easy Peasy!  All I can say is WOW!  Even at low volume, I can hear more detail!  I can tell the difference with the music I am very familiar with.  Most definitely one of my best purchase in my pursuit of enhancing my music streaming!

Bob

Hi Bob:

Glad to know that you are already enjoying the EtherREGEN in your music system!

Hope you don’t mind but I just moved your post over to the Listening Impressions thread.

Do let us know if you have any questions on usage.  And give it some time to run in. I personally hear further improvement after about the first 30-40 hours. Others say longer…

[Duckworp]

On 1/30/2022 at 10:02 PM, Superdad said:

 

Funny you should mention this as I was about to post an update today--once I took a break from the drudgery of writing, printing, and signing the export commercial invoices for the 50 international EtherREGEN shipments going in the morning.

 

So as some might know, though I admit I have not been posting a lot about the details because we are just too darn busy:

This next batch of 225 of EtherREGENs (bringing it to about 3,200 sold since November 2019!) has, due to circuit board delivery dates been split into 3 separate guaranteed ship dates. 

105 unit orders from mid-November to early-January, with the highest order number being #12602--were all promised for shipment by January 31st.  

Our boards arrived more than 10 days later than expected--or we would have shipped earlier than promised as is our style. But they made it in time for us to work day and night this past week and weekend (flash-programming, testing, affixing heat sinks, assembling, packaging, and packing) so that we can ship precisely on-time tomorrow!  

Here's a pic from the shop 10 minutes ago:

 

 

Order numbers 12603 through 12655 (plus some dealer orders we split in half to be able to fill all January 31st-promised users) were promised (at time of order on web page and in acknowledgment e-mail) a date of February 22nd.  We are still on track for that.

We already have the cases half-assembled (feet and front plates attached) as seen here:

 

 

Order numbers 12656 and above--including new orders placed now--are promised to ship by March 23rd (though I think we will beat that date--perhaps by as much as a week).  There are probably less than a dozen spots left available from that March batch--so users on the fence best get their orders in now if they want to receive an EtherREGEN in the first half of 2022.

 

Due to global parts shortages, after the above 3 batches of EtherREGEN are shipped off, there is going to be a VERY long wait for more. [As it is, this last batch of boards cost us a LOT more to make as I spent much of Q3 2021 paying nose-bleed prices to chip-scalpers for a bunch of short-supply critical chips. ] If people knew what we went through to produce these last 225 they would realize how lucky they are to even obtain one.  A lot of parts are on back-order well into 2023!

 

In fact, once we are sold out (and I'll be stopping short to keep a few boards on hand for rare repair needs), I will remove the AddToCart button from the EtherREGEN web page as my personal/professional ethics prohibit us from accepting orders without being certain of a delivery date. It really hurts to be putting the brakes on the EtherREGEN train--when there is still tons of demand, new press and awards coming, and a large pile of international dealers who have asked to carry us.

But we see a path forward and will post more in due time.

---

 

Oh, almost forgot to answer @audiobomber's question: Yes, a notice with tracking number will be sent tomorrow afternoon. (It is sent automatically from the same e-commerce system that sent the order acknowledgment on the day you ordered--so if you never received that, check your SPAM folder. Normally giving us an alternate e-mail to test/use would be no problem, but tomorrow's shipping labels have all been printed and the tracking notice will be sent to whatever e-mail address was originally given.)

 

By the way:

ALL SHIPMENTS are going via fast FedEx Express*.  Even all the domestic orders that chose Priority Mail for $9 are being upgraded at not charge to FedEx 2nd-day!

Just my way of saying thanks for your enthusiasm--and your patience in awaiting a fine EtherREGEN. 

(* FedEx does not deliver to private parties in Russia, so those few units are going via Express Mail/EMS.)

 

--Alex C.

 

Alex, I was thinking of getting a third EtherREGEN but the fact that a new design

 is imminent makes me wonder if I should wait. Will it be better or simply the same but with differently sourced parts? and when do you anticipate it being available?

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, Duckworp said:

Alex, I was thinking of getting a third EtherREGEN...

We have been 10% sold-out since the afternoon of February 5th. So sorry, a third EtherREGEN (of the first generation at least) will not be possible for you.

[Anyone reading this who has one on order--for February or March batches: Don't worry, we are still on track to ship your units on or before the dates promised!]

 

20 hours ago, Duckworp said:

...but the fact that a new design is imminent makes me wonder if I should wait. Will it be better or simply the same but with differently sourced parts? and when do you anticipate it being available?

To say "imminent" is optimism I wish we had this moment.  John is very hard at work on the new version, but it is slow going. So no date is predicated at this time. 

 

The basic architecture of an active-differential A>B isolation moat, ultra-low-jitter differential flip-flops, low-phase-noise clock synthesizer, expensive power networks, etc. will all be the same.

 

Yet to get away from being beholden to Ethernet switch chip manufacturers (Microchip, Broadcom, T.I. etc.) being unpredictable about when they will produce or discontinue production of a given part, we are going to be using an advanced--and available--FPGA series (https://www.efinixinc.com/products-titanium.html), loaded with an already developed Ethernet switch core ("cores" are just licensable or open-source code sets that one uses to program an FPGA). And we will combine that with discrete PHY transceiver chips.  

The core John has chosen was crafted for Altera-brand FPGAs, and Intel (who bought Altera a few years ago) has put a hold on production of affordable MAX10 and Cyclone FPGAs, giving priority (with their production spots within TSMC--Taiwan Semiconductor Mfr. Corp.) to their processors and large FPGAs for the next couple of years. Such is what resulted in our discontinuing the UltraCap LPS-1.2--it used an Altera MAX10.  But the process of porting over the core to the brand new Efinix platform (cool company and it looks like we will be among the first to use their new Titanium series parts) is slow and tedious. John is learning way too many (way over my head) things about the ins and outs of this--and at the same time feeding corrections to dev platform function and documentation back to Efinix engineers.

 

All of which is to say that we can't really tell anyone much more just yet.  We are quite anxious to get back into production, but have a ways to go.  And given the current state of affairs, I will have to begin advance ordering many thousands of dollars of some chips--almost entirely on speculation--just to be assured that we have a chance of entering production once the new design is done.  It is a mess that is sucking a lot of fun--and a LOT of time--out of what used to be pleasant product development and production cycles. 

 

To answer your final question of "will the new version be better?", we are shooting for equal or better.  There are aspects to the new topology which could indeed make it perform better, but the truth is we won't know until it is built and tested! 

 

[LewinskiH01]

Thanks for sharing this, Alex.

 

Might the new eR be Gigabit-capable?

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Might the new eR be Gigabit-capable?

 

Patience please. I promise we will share more information as we progress. 

Thanks.

 

By the way, ALL of the EtherREGEN orders promised a February 22nd ship date are packed and shipping out in the morning--so that's what, 5 days ahead of schedule. 

[R1200CL]

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

Such is what resulted in our discontinuing the UltraCap LPS-1.2--it used an Altera MAX10.  But the process of porting over the core to the brand new Efinix platform

Can the new FPGA in theory replace the Max10 and be used in the LPS-1.2 ?

 

I understand the LPS-1.2 may not be the preferred PS, as it may lack enough juice to new upcoming designs. 
 

[PYP]

Knowing how @R1200CL loves optical everything and clocks, that yields the simple equation:  Optical + clock = optical clock.  Therefore, this article might be of interest.  It also explains why an optical clock won't be in the future etherREGENS for some time to come.   (unless this is the secret project John is working on!)

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/science/time-second-measurement.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Science

 

Get Ready For the New, Improved Second

Scientists are preparing to redefine the fundamental unit of time. It won’t get any longer or shorter, but it will be more precise — and a whole lot more powerful.

 

From the article:  "

Today, physicists are still trying to make optical clocks talk to one another over distances, an imperative for time keeping. Optical clocks cannot communicate efficiently over satellite systems, for example, because satellite time keeping is not yet optical.

 

Physicists are making strides. A recent experiment at NIST, published in Nature last year, linked the three clocks in Boulder through both optic fiber and air.

 

And scientists are looking once more to the heavens for help. Now, though, it’s not to track the movements of planets or stars, but to use information from far beyond our galaxy.

 

Using very long baseline interferometry, researchers in Italy and Japan recently tried to link two optical atomic clocks about 5,500 miles apart. The experiment involved several antennas reading radio signals from distant outer space, and then linking the information to atomic clocks.

 

It worked, and for a moment time and space merged, mediated by the stars."

[GryphonGuy]

53 minutes ago, PYP said:

Knowing how @R1200CL loves optical everything and clocks, that yields the simple equation:  Optical + clock = optical clock.  Therefore, this article might be of interest.  It also explains why an optical clock won't be in the future etherREGENS for some time to come.   (unless this is the secret project John is working on!)

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/science/time-second-measurement.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Science

 

Get Ready For the New, Improved Second

Scientists are preparing to redefine the fundamental unit of time. It won’t get any longer or shorter, but it will be more precise — and a whole lot more powerful.

 

From the article:  "

Today, physicists are still trying to make optical clocks talk to one another over distances, an imperative for time keeping. Optical clocks cannot communicate efficiently over satellite systems, for example, because satellite time keeping is not yet optical.

 

Physicists are making strides. A recent experiment at NIST, published in Nature last year, linked the three clocks in Boulder through both optic fiber and air.

 

And scientists are looking once more to the heavens for help. Now, though, it’s not to track the movements of planets or stars, but to use information from far beyond our galaxy.

 

Using very long baseline interferometry, researchers in Italy and Japan recently tried to link two optical atomic clocks about 5,500 miles apart. The experiment involved several antennas reading radio signals from distant outer space, and then linking the information to atomic clocks.

 

It worked, and for a moment time and space merged, mediated by the stars."

 

Was this "article" written on 1st April by any chance?