EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[ted_b]

On 2/7/2019 at 12:46 PM, JohnSwenson said:

It turns out that "normally" there is a minimum length of Ethernet cable  of 1 meter. The PHYs don't work if there is less capacitance  than you get from one meter of cable. BUT since I found out about this I have been adding that amount of capacitance on the boards so it doesn't matter. The EtherRegen will definitely have the caps so there will be no minimum cable length.

 

As to maximum cable length the spec is 100 meters. The longer the cable length the worse the signal integrity. For the EtherRegen the only place that matters is the connection from the EtherRegen to your renderer. On the other side it does not matter. So you want to keep the EtherRegen near the renderer and use a short cable between them. On the other side you can have a long cable. I'm not sure I would go for exactly 100M. I would probably give it a little margin to make sure things work.

 

John S.

 

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

 

Thank you Ted, well found! Happy to know I wasn't going crazy.

[JohnSwenson]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

I had the same dream and in my dream the 1 meter minimum message was from Mr Swenson.

This has been explicitly taken care of in the EtherREGEN, I've used a 6" cable and it worked fine.

 

John S.

[HeeBroG]

Hi All.

 

The ER sounds like a fantastic product for server/endpoint/NAS setups and/or for those who stream music.

 

If I understand correctly, the B side is attached to the PC closest to the DAC and isolates upstream noise.

 

I would get one as well but I don't stream and plan to use a single PC setup very soon as top notch power supplies can be expensive.

My PC/NUC would only be connected to ethernet to control playback.

 

Is there anyone out there using ER in a single computer setup (eg. Euphony Stylus) who only plays local files attached to the local computer (ie. not NAS)?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[gstew]

6 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

 

 

I found several 6 inch (0.5ft.) Ethernet cables on Amazon.  Went with the StarTech brand and YES, I noticed improved SQ over the 1M Supra it replaced.  This is between the EtherREGEN and the Roon Nucleus.

 

I like Supra cables and use them throughout my system - USB & power cables.  Good tip on modifying the Supra Cat8 to remove the shield.  I'll give that a try.

We're these 6" StarTech cables Cat6, Cat6A, or something else?

 

Thx!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[Iving]

5 hours ago, HeeBroG said:

Hi All.

 

The ER sounds like a fantastic product for server/endpoint/NAS setups and/or for those who stream music.

 

If I understand correctly, the B side is attached to the PC closest to the DAC and isolates upstream noise.

 

I would get one as well but I don't stream and plan to use a single PC setup very soon as top notch power supplies can be expensive.

My PC/NUC would only be connected to ethernet to control playback.

 

Is there anyone out there using ER in a single computer setup (eg. Euphony Stylus) who only plays local files attached to the local computer (ie. not NAS)?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

you may want to review my system - see signature

 

local playback only

no internet streaming

single windows pc (controlled by remote desktop from listening position)

dante / focusrite

etherREGEN!

 

(i don't use apple products and have no experience with euphony stylus)

 

[buch73]

Hi 
I am also only using local files playback with Linux PC
Trying to do it as simple as possible. 

 

I have dedicated power line to my HIFI system and seperate ground rod. 

I have an Ansuz Mainz Power distributor , that connects all products in same distributor. 
All SMPS is out of the way and replaced with Linears. (Teddy Pardo , Auraliti and some LM317 types). 

Want to get rid of all SMPS noise, so do not want that in (or near) my system. 

1) I am not 100% about the recomended LAN cables to use.. (Shielded or not shielded or JSSG shielded or etc)
2) Also , I am not sure about if some of my products, should maybe NOT be in the common Distribution box ?

 

Really could use some suggestions about this (or other if you feel like it)

Of course I will also try and listen, but there are hundreds of combinations..

Thanks

 

Here is my setup:

[buch73]

BTW - Almost forgot ..
The ER did some nice changes in my system.. I had some dropouts as well, so await for the new FW.
But has played for some days now without.

Lower noisefloor , better insight in the music, bass notes much more clear. Wider/deeper soundstage and etc..
Only small downside is on some recordings, I think there is a small amount of hizz / digital sharpness. 
That is why I changed to LSPU instead of the Uptone standard. But this did not help much. Also burn-in did not get rid of it all. 
I feel that this is something than can be better, so that is why my questions above
Thanks

[nonesup]

There are already quite a few users who, together with the description of improvements in bass, spatiality, clarity, also report a certain roughness in trebels.  This besides worrying, because I hate it, I find it incomprehensible;  How does the digital hash increase if we are decreasing the phase noise?

[Iving]

2 hours ago, nonesup said:

There are already quite a few users who, together with the description of improvements in bass, spatiality, clarity, also report a certain roughness in trebels.  This besides worrying, because I hate it, I find it incomprehensible;  How does the digital hash increase if we are decreasing the phase noise?

 

I empathise because my life's work seems to be accounted for banishing "digititis".

I offer four morsels:

1. The cable *after* the ER can affect "roughness" (UTP) and "hash" (STP tied both ends). I am OK with an AQ (STP tied destination only).

2. Most of my generic digital pain so far as I can tell is accounted for by electrical noise. I say this because I can mitigate it with isolation transformers, Isotek strips, shunts etc - and I can tweak these endlessly - although I do usually settle down with something optimal.

3. This is true even with the ER (which has powered components both before and after it).

4. The EtherREGEN does stuff other components don't. Its implementation can produce weird effects (let's just say altering the relative emphasis of upstream and downstream SQ factors) which may be compounded with the burn-in dimension - but which effects make sense in the end.

After 200 hours + my ER is sounding as sweet as anything right across the frequency range.

No nastiness at all.

Tonally profound too.

I had to work to get where I am tweaking and allowing cooking.

I can't fault it today.

It's an awesome device.

I know as a fact of my experience that the ER is the *solution* to my digititis problem.

In summary - your problem is probably not the ER.

I say this with some humility (which I can summon) since I don't know how the ER engages with your system vs. mine.

I am no technician - I can't provide "bottom up" accounting for my trial-and-error triumphs.

🙂

 

[ciccio1112]

Good evening Alex, there is a problem of connection with the Uptone website from Italy that is not accessible. To be able to connect, I had to use an American proxy. Thanks.

[pl_svn]

Italy (Milano) here and...

 

 

might be something with your ISP. and maybe just temporary

try using Cloud Flare's DNSs: 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1 instead of your provider's

[nonesup]

1 hour ago, Iving said:

 

I empathise because my life's work seems to be accounted for banishing "digititis".

I offer four morsels:

1. The cable *after* the ER can affect "roughness" (UTP) and "hash" (STP tied both ends). I am OK with an AQ (STP tied destination only).

2. Most of my generic digital pain so far as I can tell is accounted for by electrical noise. I say this because I can mitigate it with isolation transformers, Isotek strips, shunts etc - and I can tweak these endlessly - although I do usually settle down with something optimal.

3. This is true even with the ER (which has powered components both before and after it).

4. The EtherREGEN does stuff other components don't. Its implementation can produce weird effects (let's just say altering the relative emphasis of upstream and downstream SQ factors) which may be compounded with the burn-in dimension - but which effects make sense in the end.

After 200 hours + my ER is sounding as sweet as anything right across the frequency range.

No nastiness at all.

Tonally profound too.

I had to work to get where I am tweaking and allowing cooking.

I can't fault it today.

It's an awesome device.

I know as a fact of my experience that the ER is the *solution* to my digititis problem.

In summary - your problem is probably not the ER.

I say this with some humility (which I can summon) since I don't know how the ER engages with your system vs. mine.

I am no technician - I can't provide "bottom up" accounting for my trial-and-error triumphs.

🙂

 

I don't know if I didn't express myself correctly since English is not my language, but "I don't have any problem with the digital hash and ER" simply because I'm in the second batch and I still don't have it.  
It simply catches my attention that there are several users who describe a certain tightening of trebels with ER and that is something I would never have expected.  For the rest, if you look at my system, you will see the effort I have made in reducing noise: from the ethernet cable that goes from the AqVOX Switch to the Melco Server, which is not even close to any AQ (I have several and one Diamond of  1.5 m to the sale), up to LPS for Router and Switch, Shunyata Denali and the best Entreq boxes and cables.  
I simply hope that in my system, ER does not harden the trebels, that would not support it.

Best

[Iving]

1 minute ago, nonesup said:

I don't know if I didn't express myself correctly since English is not my language, but "I don't have any problem with the digital hash and ER" simply because I'm in the second batch and I still don't have it.  
It simply catches my attention that there are several users who describe a certain tightening of trebels with ER and that is something I would never have expected.  For the rest, if you look at my system, you will see the effort I have made in reducing noise: from the ethernet cable that goes from the AqVOX Switch to the Melco Server, which is not even close to any AQ (I have several and one Diamond of  1.5 m to the sale), up to LPS for Router and Switch, Shunyata Denali and the best Entreq boxes and cables.  
I simply hope that in my system, ER does not harden the trebels, that would not support it.

Best

 

lol yes you seemed to be talking from experience

look forward to your listening impressions eventually!

[Jud]

26 minutes ago, nonesup said:

I simply hope that in my system, ER does not harden the trebels, that would not support it.

I imagine the system owners would disagree, but I got the impression that some who posted to this effect had speakers I would consider bright sounding. I think the ER helps bring out the sound of the rest of the system.

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, Jud said:

I think the ER helps bring out the sound of the rest of the system.

 

Yep. The EtherREGEN is in no way a "tone control" and does not do anything other that improve the Ethernet signal (not the bits!) in a number of ways (which we more fully explain in our "white paper" for those who want to delve into the mechanisms).

 

As has always been the case with evolving audio systems, improvements in one area often reveal the true nature of other components in the system--good or bad. 

[octaviars]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

1. The cable *after* the ER can affect "roughness" (UTP) and "hash" (STP tied both ends). I am OK with an AQ (STP tied destination only).

 

You might consider that a STP cable with shields tied at both ends will on the eR B-side act as a cable with the shield just tied on the destination (the RJ45 outershell on the eR B-side have no connection to anything else besides the ground on the bnc connector).

 

@Superdad I know you wrote that the shell on the RJ45 on B-side only have connection with bnc ground but when I checked it with my multimeter there was no connection.

[PYP]

5 hours ago, buch73 said:

Only small downside is on some recordings, I think there is a small amount of hizz / digital sharpness. 
 

 

You said the eR is broken in.  Just curious:  How many hours playing music?

 

As a few others have said, some systems may require a long break in.  I'm approaching 200 hours and the last 30 hours has resulted in a very large improvement in the treble.  I'm waiting for it to fully settle before I make a final judgement, but right now, listening to "Our Place:  Duets for Cello and Guitar," I am thanking the musicians for coming over to my place to play for me.  Simply outstanding in every way (Jud, you were right about the cello!).    

[lmitche]

17 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This has been explicitly taken care of in the EtherREGEN, I've used a 6" cable and it worked fine.

 

John S.

Yes indeed, and thank you again, it was a useful post in the pre-ER era.

[buch73]

8 hours ago, PYP said:

 

You said the eR is broken in.  Just curious:  How many hours playing music?

 

As a few others have said, some systems may require a long break in.  I'm approaching 200 hours and the last 30 hours has resulted in a very large improvement in the treble.  I'm waiting for it to fully settle before I make a final judgement, but right now, listening to "Our Place:  Duets for Cello and Guitar," I am thanking the musicians for coming over to my place to play for me.  Simply outstanding in every way (Jud, you were right about the cello!).    

I reached the 100 hours mark some time ago and saw many mentioned that was good enough and then I have not played that much on it since. 20-30 hours maybe. 
I see now that more people say improvements up to 200 hours now. 
I will let it play and reach that mark within 3-4 days and see. 

 

If I use seperate LPSU for each product, but then put the LPSU AC cords in common power strip - can this make that I do not get full credit for the MOAT ? 
 

[Patatorz]

MOAT ?

[Cable Monkey]

5 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

MOAT ?

The isolation between all A side devices and what is connected to the B side.

[jos]

On 11/23/2019 at 9:35 PM, DelsFan said:

That's good info; too bad I just purchased two more CAT8 Supra Ethernet cables.  Would it suffice if I (get my friend to) only "modify" one of the cables?  And if so, which one, and on either end??

The first Ethernet cable is probably fine as it is, it connects the modem to the router.

The second goes from my router to my switch/EtherREGEN.

The third goes from my switch/B-Side of EtherREGEN to my streamer.

 

Somewhere I read that "short" Ethernet cables should be no shorter than one meter in length.  It has been reasonably easy for me to follow this "rule"; but did I dream it?  I don't actually recall seeing 1/2 meter lengths for sale anywhere... 

You can buy a half a meter here: https://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-cat8-flame-retardant-ethernet-cable, or here: https://www.av-connection.com/?PNo=SUPCAT8-005 (quite cheap). I have this short cable from my Apple router to my ER and I just removed the golden shield at one end with a small kitchen knife quite easily.

[PYP]

11 hours ago, buch73 said:

If I use seperate LPSU for each product, but then put the LPSU AC cords in common power strip - can this make that I do not get full credit for the MOAT ? 

 

There are others more capable than I am of answering this, but it seems to me the MOAT filters out noise that is introduced via the ethernet cable, and as long as you use the eR as suggested, you get the benefit.  And that the AC side of things is a different issue.  

 

My DAC and eR, using the stock power supply and power cord, are plugged into a common power conditioner (fed by a dedicated outlet) and that arrangement works well.  Power conditioners/strips that are able to isolate the outlets from each other, help with any cross contamination of power supplies.  Hope that helps answer your question.

[JohnSwenson]

23 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

You might consider that a STP cable with shields tied at both ends will on the eR B-side act as a cable with the shield just tied on the destination (the RJ45 outershell on the eR B-side have no connection to anything else besides the ground on the bnc connector).

 

@Superdad I know you wrote that the shell on the RJ45 on B-side only have connection with bnc ground but when I checked it with my multimeter there was no connection.

The shell of the BNC jack is connected to the B side gnd, NOT the A side gnd. The GND screw is on the A side gnd, so checking continuity between the BNC shell and the GND screw will show no continuity.

 

There is very high isolation between the A and B side grounds.

 

John S.