EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[MarkS]

Correct, I’ve only had a few hours with it (traveling for the holidays), but it’s great so far, and the line skip worked out for me and the seller. 
 

I should also note that I got the normal great assistance from Alex in setup (I’m a fiber novice it’s not at all complicated) even though he did not “make a sale” on my unit. 

[LowMidHigh]

Alex, 

 

What's the plan for the next batch after January? I'm in mind to pick up a second ER in April. 

[fpalm69]

OK, got the issue with the TP Link FMC sorted out.  Seems it needs to be in Auto mode (not Forced mode) but you need to power cycle it after re-positioning the switch.  It connected, but I much prefer the SQ of the Sonore opticalModule as expected.  

 

A few other items to share - read the manual carefully.  There are some really good tips in getting the best out of this device. For example...the tip about NOT using a shield-tied shell on the RJ45 connectors to eliminate ground/noise issues between devices is spot on.  I changed mine from Supra Cat8 to BlueJeans Cat6 and it improved SQ.  Next up is the tip on using a short Ethernet cable out of the eR to the next device and that also helped the SQ.

 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

What's the plan for the next batch after January? I'm in mind to pick up a second ER in April. 

 

Well we will of course continue to build. 

January's 250 is close to being sold out--with circuit boards and case for those already scheduled for arrival by late-December.  But as of yet I have not had a chance to look at silicon chip availability or to schedule production beyond January.  We'll get there and we are sure to have a February batch.

[Nenon]

Wait until the word spreads out to the home theatre enthusiasts... the market there is much bigger!

[BigAlMc]

7 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

about NOT using a shield-tied shell on the RJ45 connectors

 

Apologies if this has been answered in the 130 pages now dedicated to the ER, but how do we tell if a LAN cable is shield tied or not?

 

Is this the same as JSSG / JSSG360 or Lush style cables? Or is there something else I should be looking at.

 

Alex - a locked FAQ thread or sticky might be helpful as its 130 pages so far and that's surely set to rise substantially.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Bricki]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Apologies if this has been answered in the 130 pages now dedicated to the ER, but how do we tell if a LAN cable is shield tied or not?

 

Is this the same as JSSG / JSSG360 or Lush style cables? Or is there something else I should be looking at.

 

Alex - a locked FAQ thread or sticky might be helpful as its 130 pages so far and that's surely set to rise substantially.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Just use a multi meter and do a continuity check between your metal shielded plugs at each end. If your Ethernet cable doesn't have metal plugs then you are already fine. I checked Supra cat8 and the shield is tied to the plug at each end.... I checked my Audioquest and they are not connected. 

[Johnnydev]

15 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Just use a multi meter and do a continuity check between your metal shielded plugs at each end. If your Ethernet cable doesn't have metal plugs then you are already fine. I checked Supra cat8 and the shield is tied to the plug at each end.... I checked my Audioquest and they are not connected. 

The supra cat8 is connnected on both sides and the Audioquest on one side, the recieving side

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Johnnydev said:

...and the Audioquest on one side, the recieving side.

 

Which end is the “receiving” end? Ethernet data flows in both directions! 

[stevebythebay]

These cables, as with most high end cables these days, designate one or both ends with arrow indicators.  Likely just a labeling follow on to all the other cables in the system.  Agree with you as TCP/IP is bi-directional as a protocol by its very nature of packet send/receive validation.

[Johnnydev]

41 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Which end is the “receiving” end? Ethernet data flows in both directions! 

🤣 I just write something out of boredom because my EtherRegen is stil on the road, flight or boat with USPS, does not know where he is and when he will come, while FedEX already delivered a week ago 😢🥵

 

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Johnnydev said:

I just write something out of boredom because my EtherRegen is stil on the road, flight or boat with USPS, does not know where he is and when he will come, while FedEX already delivered a week ago.

 

So sorry about that. Local post (which USPS hands off to in destination country) is not usually so slow. But do try to trust that your package will soon be delivered to you. 

[Dutch]

A general FYI, the metal shields of the Supra ethernet cables can, with some care, easily be pulled/pried/peeled of with some pliers. Do it on one side or both of course. I did this earlier this year on just one side to ‘isolate’ a device in my home office/study.

[Bricki]

2 hours ago, Dutch said:

A general FYI, the metal shields of the Supra ethernet cables can, with some care, easily be pulled/pried/peeled of with some pliers. Do it on one side or both of course. I did this earlier this year on just one side to ‘isolate’ a device in my home office/study.

Did it make an audible difference?

[Dutch]

53 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Did it make an audible difference?

No idea! 😁 I just did it ‘for peace of mind’ and it was just one of a number of commonsense changes (all related to grounding) I did all at once.

[DelsFan]

18 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

OK, got the issue with the TP Link FMC sorted out.  Seems it needs to be in Auto mode (not Forced mode) but you need to power cycle it after re-positioning the switch.  It connected, but I much prefer the SQ of the Sonore opticalModule as expected.  

 

A few other items to share - read the manual carefully.  There are some really good tips in getting the best out of this device. For example...the tip about NOT using a shield-tied shell on the RJ45 connectors to eliminate ground/noise issues between devices is spot on.  I changed mine from Supra Cat8 to BlueJeans Cat6 and it improved SQ.  Next up is the tip on using a short Ethernet cable out of the eR to the next device and that also helped the SQ.

 

That's good info; too bad I just purchased two more CAT8 Supra Ethernet cables.  Would it suffice if I (get my friend to) only "modify" one of the cables?  And if so, which one, and on either end??

The first Ethernet cable is probably fine as it is, it connects the modem to the router.

The second goes from my router to my switch/EtherREGEN.

The third goes from my switch/B-Side of EtherREGEN to my streamer.

 

Somewhere I read that "short" Ethernet cables should be no shorter than one meter in length.  It has been reasonably easy for me to follow this "rule"; but did I dream it?  I don't actually recall seeing 1/2 meter lengths for sale anywhere... 

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

That's good info; too bad I just purchased two more CAT8 Supra Ethernet cables.  Would it suffice if I (get my friend to) only "modify" one of the cables?  And if so, which one, and on either end??

The first Ethernet cable is probably fine as it is, it connects the modem to the router.

The second goes from my router to my switch/EtherREGEN.

The third goes from my switch/B-Side of EtherREGEN to my streamer.

 

The second one--to the 'A' side of the EtherREGEN is the one you would want to modify so that it connects the shield at only one end.

 

As indicated in the User Guide, it is fine to have a metal-shield-tied cable on the 'B'-side of the EtherREGEN because that domain of the unit is not common to anything else (other than the ground of the BNC for external clock).

 

10 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

Somewhere I read that "short" Ethernet cables should be no shorter than one meter in length.  It has been reasonably easy for me to follow this "rule"; but did I dream it?

 

You may have dreamt that.   You sure did not read that from us.  Nothing wrong with under one meter Ethernet cables.

[Bricki]

31 minutes ago, Dutch said:

No idea! 😁 I just did it ‘for peace of mind’ and it was just one of a number of commonsense changes (all related to grounding) I did all at once.

The reason I ask is just because I still prefer the Supra cat8... It has better layering than the Audioquest Pearl and both have a bigger soundstage than a standard no name 1 meter long $3 cat 6 cable... Not sure that I want to dismember my Supra cat8 cables 😕

[Dutch]

9 minutes ago, Bricki said:

The reason I ask is just because I still prefer the Supra cat8... It has better layering than the Audioquest Pearl and both have a bigger soundstage than a standard no name 1 meter long $3 cat 6 cable... Not sure that I want to dismember my Supra cat8 cables 😕

I understand but really don’t know. Also your application is very different than mine (in my case this cable is used way upstream near my DSL modem/router after I upgraded it).
 

I just gave this as a tip for anyone who has the cable and had not thought about it. Perhaps use some electrical tape around the connector to test first.

[DelsFan]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:53 AM, EVOLVIST said:

So, really, I'm asking honestly without ulterior motive, how does one even begin to design something like the EtherREGEN? 

 

Most designs, inventions, etc. come out of necessity. One old example is the guy whose mother found it difficult in old age to work a potato peeler, so he designed a better handle for the peeler. This design was then used for a lot of other products with a handle. Or, if you check out the evolution of bridges, it's quite fascinating, as we get into holding more weight with less mass. 

 

I'm just sitting here wondering what was the impetus - the necessity - behind the EtherREGEN. Was it that people claimed that there was "noise" in their Ethernet, or studies showed that it was an imperfect system that needed to be remedied? I'm thinking that if those two examples are the leading reason behind the EtherREGEN then the commercial implications could be huge for Uptone...

I think the "necessity" is because the quality of sound from streaming is less than the quality from one's CD player (which is less than the quality from one's turntable).  While I'm sure no "studies" were done, there is a lot of room for improvement and John had a unique idea to "help" those of us who care about the "high end".  There are several ways to improve sound quality when streaming, but even on the best systems the quality falls short of that when using the other methods of playback.  I know John will explain "all" in his white paper, although it is doubtful my Civil Engineering background will have prepared me to understand it, but it seems the implementation of his idea benefits "only" 98% or 99% of the people who have tried it in their systems.

 

Streaming is really convenient, and cost effective also - but why spend $5,000 on a streamer if an album on your $800 turntable sounds better?  (Other than for convenience, and I love being able to think of any song I used to like and then listen to it, all for the price of one or two CDs (or half an album!)?)  The quest to improve streaming will continue - while playing a CD was an order of magnitude more convenient than playing a vinyl album, I suggest the increase by going from the CD player to streaming is several.

 

And regardless of the "perfection" offered by a digital stream, whether for analog or digital signals, efficiently passing electrons through copper wire (or silver coated copper, or silver) has still not been remotely perfected - things like material, varying crystalline structures (which seemingly can be modified utilizing cryogenics), shape (I use ribbons rather than wire), insulation, and temperature all seem to have an impact on sound quality.  In the winter it is common for temperatures to drop to the mid-20s where I live; so this January when that happens, one evening I'm going to set up my system in the back yard just outside the window of my study, let it cold-soak overnight, then run my headphone cable through the window and, over coffee, see what happens.  I'm sure it will sound better!

[Jud]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:53 PM, EVOLVIST said:

Was it that people claimed that there was "noise" in their Ethernet, or studies showed that it was an imperfect system that needed to be remedied?

Well, in fact: I do recall years ago during the design and testing of the first (USB) REGEN, I’d managed to develop some sort of ground loop and hum in my system as it was at the time (I’ve since simplified the power side in particular and gone to cables with better resistance to EMI). A couple of Baaske Ethernet isolation transformers helped. So it’s evident Ethernet can carry electrical noise. And anything that can carry audible electrical noise can certainly carry noise low enough in level not to be audible over music, but enough to mask low level musical detail.

 

 I know Alex and John were aware of this, because it was part of my correspondence with them at the time.

 

Now this sort of transmitted EMI is not what the EtherREGEN is about, at least as I understand it. But I do recall John saying a few times on this forum that when you eliminate bigger sources of noise, lesser sources (such as those the ER was as I gather designed to deal with) become more evident. So at least the notion of noise over Ethernet was something John was contemplating several years ago, if not before.

[Bricki]

53 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Perhaps use some electrical tape around the connector to test first.

Good idea 😁. I might give that a try next time I get a chance 👍

[fpalm69]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:50 PM, jcn3 said:

 

Also, not all SFPs work with all FMCs -- compatibility is not 100%.  Has the SFP worked with the TP Link before?

 

BTW, did you try changing the switch on the back of the TP Link from Auto to Force (or vice versa)?

 

On 11/21/2019 at 3:41 PM, Superdad said:

 

This may sound silly, but can you try pushing the FO module into the EtherREGEN's SFP cage just a bit harder?  During testing we have found this to be required and I think a couple of other folks here had similar issue as you and then got it to work by re-seating firmly.  Just a thought.  Beyond that I can't really think of a reason why that model TP Link FMC would not work, where your Sonore opticalModule with the same transceivers does.

 

I found several 6 inch (0.5ft.) Ethernet cables on Amazon.  Went with the StarTech brand and YES, I noticed improved SQ over the 1M Supra it replaced.  This is between the EtherREGEN and the Roon Nucleus.

 

I like Supra cables and use them throughout my system - USB & power cables.  Good tip on modifying the Supra Cat8 to remove the shield.  I'll give that a try.

[DelsFan]

22 minutes ago, fpalm69 said:

 

 

I found several 6 inch (0.5ft.) Ethernet cables on Amazon.  Went with the StarTech brand and YES, I noticed improved SQ over the 1M Supra it replaced.  This is between the EtherREGEN and the Roon Nucleus.

 

I like Supra cables and use them throughout my system - USB & power cables.  Good tip on modifying the Supra Cat8 to remove the shield.  I'll give that a try.

Let us know what you find; if the StarTech Ethernet cable sounds better than the unmodified CAT8 Supra, because it doesn't matter how good the cable is if the two shields are tied together, but not as good as the correctly modified CAT8 Supra cable...

 

It seems the only Ethernet cable that needs to not have the two shields tied together is the one going from one's modem/router to the B-side of the EtherREGEN.

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

You may have dreamt that.   You sure did not read that from us.  Nothing wrong with under one meter Ethernet cables.

I had the same dream and in my dream the 1 meter minimum message was from Mr Swenson.