EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

You mention things like digital cables etc depleting bass, this has nothing to do with bits being changed. It is all about some form of noise (usually either voltage noise or phase noise) hitching a ride along with the digital data (the bits) and getting into the DAC. This causes very small distortions in the analog signal which somehow cause the human perceptual system to hear "depleted bass". It really isn't depleted bass, if you measure the actual audio signal the frequency response doesn't change, but those specific small distortions cause your perceptual system to hear it that way. (there is way more to this than just bass). THAT is what the EtherREGEN is all about. Getting rid of those noise components before they reach your DAC.

Hi John;

 

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge here. I am wondering if better shielded copper LAN cables upstream into A side makes EtherRegen's job easier?

The logic here is that EtherRegen would have an easier job to filter out all the noise if there is less noise RF etc.. got into A side cables. If the answer is yes to my logic above, then wouldn't it improve sound quality further at outputs?

 

Cheers

 

Eddie

[Dutch]

11 hours ago, Ehsu said:

Hi John;

 

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge here. I am wondering if better shielded copper LAN cables upstream into A side makes EtherRegen's job easier?

The logic here is that EtherRegen would have an easier job to filter out all the noise if there is less noise RF etc.. got into A side cables. If the answer is yes to my logic above, then wouldn't it improve sound quality further at outputs?

 

Cheers

 

Eddie

I *think* John answered that here

 

 

 

[Ehsu]

27 minutes ago, Dutch said:

The whole purpose of the EtherREGEN is to greatly reduce effects coming from the upstream system.

 

@Dutch Exactly why I asked the question because John Swenson said the purpose of the ER is to " greatly reduce effects from upstream system" so I was wondering wouldnt it be better off to have " less " noise upstream for EtherRegen to deal with? Say ER can reduce 90% of noise from upstream but imagine if your upstream system generate much less noise to begin with.... 

 

[Jud]

If better shielded cables are reasonably inexpensive, why not try it/them, on the theory that at least it couldn’t hurt?

[Iving]

At the risk of drawing an unfair OT strike, I am sure @Ehsu has a point. I am so convinced from prior experience that - since, as a generic proposition, short and/or shielded ethernet cables yield better SQ than long and/or cheap - I have manually shielded a handful of AQ Cinnamons in preparation. It's not difficult to do. AQ have confirmed to me wrt their RJ/E ethernet cables "We do not tie the drains on the input #1 end. Only on the #2 end, destination end. This helps reduce overall system noise for better audio performance." I don't change the underlying integrity of the Cinnamons. I wrap them up and down with Aluminium cloth tape (Dewal 407 is best/ideal - if you can get it), then wrap with copper braid, then Aluminium tape again - before adding heat shrink over. It's easy to add a drain. I have three of these for PC > Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-S > EtherREGEN > RedNet D16 AES [>DAC via AES - and I don't play music streamed from the internet]. This does create a challenge for the EtherREGEN which I have seen mentioned once here at AS - it is a light box and heavy cables without good management will insist too brutally on their own way. It's a straightforward matter to mould the cables with a heat gun as heatshrink is applied - or afterwards provided a dressing braid has not yet been fixed. I've even engineered a new bespoke shelf for my EtherREGEN. Added to Christmas, and our UK General Election, the excitement is almost unbearable ;-).

[charlesphoto]

38 minutes ago, Iving said:

At the risk of drawing an unfair OT strike, I am sure @Ehsu has a point. I am so convinced from prior experience that - since, as a generic proposition, short and/or shielded ethernet cables yield better SQ than long and/or cheap - I have manually shielded a handful of AQ Cinnamons in preparation. It's not difficult to do. AQ have confirmed to me wrt their RJ/E ethernet cables "We do not tie the drains on the input #1 end. Only on the #2 end, destination end. This helps reduce overall system noise for better audio performance." I don't change the underlying integrity of the Cinnamons. I wrap them up and down with Aluminium cloth tape (Dewal 407 is best/ideal - if you can get it), then wrap with copper braid, then Aluminium tape again - before adding heat shrink over. It's easy to add a drain. I have three of these for PC > Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-S > EtherREGEN > RedNet D16 AES [>DAC via AES - and I don't play music streamed from the internet]. This does create a challenge for the EtherREGEN which I have seen mentioned once here at AS - it is a light box and heavy cables without good management will insist too brutally on their own way. It's a straightforward matter to mould the cables with a heat gun as heatshrink is applied - or afterwards provided a dressing braid has not yet been fixed. I've even engineered a new bespoke shelf for my EtherREGEN. Added to Christmas, and our UK General Election, the excitement is almost unbearable ;-).

 

I wouldn't bother and just get some Blue Jeans Cat 6 or 6a. Blow away the Cinnamon and Melco cables in my system. 

[Dutch]

2 hours ago, Ehsu said:

 

@Dutch Exactly why I asked the question because John Swenson said the purpose of the ER is to " greatly reduce effects from upstream system" so I was wondering wouldnt it be better off to have " less " noise upstream for EtherRegen to deal with? Say ER can reduce 90% of noise from upstream but imagine if your upstream system generate much less noise to begin with.... 

 

I understand, did not know if you read that post.
 

And yes, if something is not fully blocked (like EM noise when using fiber optics) the next best thing is attenuation. So, you’re right if it reduces noise by say 60dB it’s still not zero and the outcome is better when there’s less noise to begin with. Of course the question is,mhoe much or how little is audible.

 

I can’t wait for it to be in everyone’s hands, we’ll probably only then learn how effective it is in several different use cases and setups.

[Iving]

16 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

I wouldn't bother and just get some Blue Jeans Cat 6 or 6a. Blow away the Cinnamon and Melco cables in my system. 

 

My experience is exactly and unequivocally the reverse. I don't have BJ any longer as the result. What's more, shielding improved the AQs. Very much worth both the exchange and the effort.

[jos]

3 hours ago, Ehsu said:

 

@Dutch Exactly why I asked the question because John Swenson said the purpose of the ER is to " greatly reduce effects from upstream system" so I was wondering wouldnt it be better off to have " less " noise upstream for EtherRegen to deal with? Say ER can reduce 90% of noise from upstream but imagine if your upstream system generate much less noise to begin with.... 

 

A very good question. I have 3 Jitterbugs in upstream devices (NAS, Router, iMac). I assume they will, more or less, do the same as the EtherREGEN. I guess the EtherREGEN will do the final cleaning in my situation. The EtherREGEN will be in the forefront, just before my ultraRendu, feeding my Qutest DAC. In some reviews I have been reading it could be to much of a ‘good thing’. In other words: the sound could be worsening, but that is hard to believe. For instance if you go from 2 to 3 Jitterbugs in your computer.

[lmitche]

With experience of dozens of BJC terminated cables, hundreds of feet actually, with and without self applied jssg360 shielding, and later the same with Supra Ethernet cabling, I've landed on the Monoprice Slimrun cable available on Amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-SlimRun-Cat6A-Ethernet-Patch/dp/B01BGV2TDM

 

It's cheap, very flexible, and sounds great. It is just delightful to work with. No wrestling required. I learned about this from Tubelover, whom unfortunately recently passed away.

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, Iving said:

 

My experience is exactly and unequivocally the reverse. I don't have BJ any longer as the result. What's more, shielding improved the AQs. Very much worth both the exchange and the effort.

 

Sounds good. I have a couple of short lengths of Cinnamon I'll be selling - always sounded thin in my set up, and the recent addition of BJC just right, but each person's need is different. Won't hijack the thread any further. 

[Blake]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I learned about this from Tubelover, whom unfortunately recently passed away.

 

OT, but so sorry to hear of this.  

[Iving]

39 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Sounds good. I have a couple of short lengths of Cinnamon I'll be selling - always sounded thin in my set up, and the recent addition of BJC just right, but each person's need is different. Won't hijack the thread any further. 

 

I don't alter the manuf. product wrt the plugs.

"Thin" - my oh my that was the BJC problem - with "bright" and "banshee". Probably not all the BJC's fault ...

[Iving]

25 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

OT, but so sorry to hear of this.  

 

To be clear we are talking about Tubelover2 aka rb2013 - I think there is another "Tubelover" here.

Rob/Bob was a great audiophile pioneer/contributor and is greatly missed.

[Blake]

27 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

To be clear we are talking about Tubelover2 aka rb2013 - I think there is another "Tubelover" here.

Rob/Bob was a great audiophile pioneer/contributor and is greatly missed.

 

Thanks for the clarification, yes, there is a Tubelover here, different person and I thought he was the one referenced.  But I am also very familiar with Rob (rb2013) and his contributions.  In fact I have a quad of the '75 Reflektor SWGP "Holy Grail" tubes as a result of his reports.  Sorry to hear of this.

[RickyV]

56 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

To be clear we are talking about Tubelover2 aka rb2013 - I think there is another "Tubelover" here.

Rob/Bob was a great audiophile pioneer/contributor and is greatly missed.

You mean  Rob for usaudiomart forum?

[Iving]

10 minutes ago, RickyV said:

You mean  Rob for usaudiomart forum?

 

Yes - https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1465&p=12173#p12136

[emailists]

Since I am currently using a passive medical Ethernet isolator ($90) right before my direct stream dac, should I pull that out of the system once my ER arrives?   The ER will  be installed upstream with about 35 feet of Ethernet cable from the ER in my computer room to the dac, so I’m wondering if the passive isolator with help with any RF, etc that is picked up after the ER. 

 

I am really hoping that UpTone or any owners don’t send the ER to any of the fake “science”  crowd.   The ER is sure to spark debate and even though UpTone has engaged with them in the past, it’s clearly a waste of resources.  While I’m not drawing any kind of parallel, Holocaust deniers misuse “scientific” testing to support their agenda, as so many groups exhibit bias confirmation.  

 

Also I wonder if UpTone will ever license a simpler version of their circuitry to other audio companies to use in streamers, etc.  I could see that being much more lucrative than the ER.  

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, emailists said:

I am really hoping that UpTone or any owners don’t send the ER to any of the fake “science”  crowd.

Are you talking about the Audio Science Reviews? Amir’s crowd?

 

Thats inevitable. Someone will send the EtherRegen to those jerks. But who cares. We already know what they will say even before they “measure” it.

[Superdad]

26 minutes ago, emailists said:

Since I am currently using a passive medical Ethernet isolator ($90) right before my direct stream dac, should I pull that out of the system once my ER arrives?   The ER will  be installed upstream with about 35 feet of Ethernet cable from the ER in my computer room to the dac, so I’m wondering if the passive isolator with help with any RF, etc that is picked up after the ER. 

 

You should try it both ways.  But really, why not put the EtherREGEN near you DAC?  Run that same 35 cable into the EtherREGEN, then a short cable out of it to your DAC.

[Superdad]

First 90 units shipped to our dealers in Europe and Asia today.  165 pounds (75Kg)!  Took me all morning just to pack the cartons for FedEx. 

 

 

Tomorrow we start kitting all the direct-user orders and next week will ship them all out. 

[emailists]

Thyname.... I’m not naming any names.....

 

Alex, thanks for the suggestion.  I was hoping to keep the ER in another room with the computer gear (which all has its own AC isolation) but will try it in both locations.

 

while probably a long shot, it would be amazing to have the ER in the system next weekend.

 

BTW  I’m going to the NY audio show this weekend.

 

 

[Cable Monkey]

It seems to me that crowd are in some of your heads. More so than they are in Alex and John's heads. Relax, this has been properly conceived and will be of benefit in many people's homes.

[Confused]

30 minutes ago, Cable Monkey said:

It seems to me that crowd are in some of your heads. More so than they are in Alex and John's heads. Relax, this has been properly conceived and will be of benefit in many people's homes.

I tend to agree with this.  To put it another way, I can think of no audio device, or set-up technique, no matter how well regarded or generally accepted, that does not somewhere have it's detractors claiming it is too expensive, foo, does not work, sounds terrible, or whatever.  It is true of the big brand kit, niche products, every kind of accessory, you name it.  So chill out, enjoy, and if you happen to stumble across someone who disagrees with your view, worry not, it's inevitable.

[NanoSword]

do we  still need  bridg from server after  having  two switch for better sq ?