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EtherREGEN: The long development and active launch discussion thread.

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

The User Guide for EtherREGEN is at last complete! 

 

I worked on this every day--and a few nights--this past week. I hate to write--other than socially--but I do it well when I have to. Still, if I knew going in that it would wind up being this long, I probably would have panicked. :$

I think it turned out nicely and will be useful. And if EtherREGEN owners actually read it we might avoid a flood of e-mailed questions. 9_9

 

Here is the link:  EtherREGEN User Guide.  It is a 3.3Mb PDF.  

It is also at our web site on the virtually empty EtherREGEN Q&A page.

 

I will be submitting it to an on-line print service Monday afternoon.  Please, if you discover any typographical errors, try to let me know before then.

 

We are still progressing on schedule for EtherREGEN production.

 

And now that another 250 aluminum cases arrived for UltraCap LPS-1.2, all 45 back orders--for UltraCap LPS-1.2 and ISO REGEN/UltraCap LPS-1.2 bundles--will be shipped by this Wednesday.

Then I leave on Thursday for a long-weekend getaway with my wife.  Upon my return to the office the 28th, the entire first production run of EtherREGEN boards should begin arriving.  That's when the real work begins: Attaching heat-sinks, flashing code, and testing--for every unit. Then assembly into cases, kitting, shipping in groups. 

My wife may have hiking and kayaking in mind, but I think I'll be resting up advance of what is sure to be weeks of round-the-clock fun. B|

 

Ciao!

--ALEX

 

I’m going to a be voice of dissent, Alex.

 

In my opinion, marketing material or technical expositions that don’t have bearing on the product’s operation/configuration/installation don’t have a room in the User Guide. 

 

Buyers don’t require any persuasion. They’ve made the purchase, so you’re preaching to the choir. And, in our day and age of “get to the point”, they’re likely not inclined to be bothered with information that isn’t relevant to the product’s operation. Put differently, it can be argued that you’re unnecessarily tasking the readers with sorting out the substance.  

 

Personally, I’d go over the document again, and make it much tighter and germane.  

 

One man’s opinion. 


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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Thanks to a boatload of detailed suggestions from the very sharp @Puma Cat--combined with a bit more patience and a fresh look--I went through the entire User Guide again this whole afternoon.

This is the link to revised version.  Not a world of change, just a lot of rephrasing for clarity, etc.

Onward. O.o

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:53 AM, Superdad said:

 

 

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I have made fixes and incorporated all your suggestions. You gents all have quick eyes and keen insights. :D

New version of the User Guide is linked above and here.

 

Good night all.

Hello everyone/superdad,

 

You could also add a quick installation guide/card in front, with a step by step guide for installation. This because most people like to install it first and quick, and then start to read about the several technical aspects of the EtherREGEN. I have be doing this before for people upgrading computer networks and it works quite good.

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5 hours ago, jos said:

You could also add a quick installation guide/card in front, with a step by step guide for installation. This because most people like to install it first and quick, and then start to read about the several technical aspects of the EtherREGEN. I have be doing this before for people upgrading computer networks and it works quite good.


Looks like that’s happening:

 

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

I'm going to also include a separate half-sheet "Quick-Start" insert.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> eero Pro router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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22 hours ago, Superdad said:

I'm going to also include a separate half-sheet "Quick-Start" insert.

--Alex

 

It is generous to take the belts and suspenders approach to documentation:  printed materials with the product + same on the website.  Since the web gives you more room and flexibility (vs printed), it might be worth considering having a few illustrations/diagrams of various ways to use the EtherREGEN (fiber in, ethernet in, connection to DAC with ethernet connection, for example).  Many folks follow illustrations better than written instructions.   Just a thought and perhaps more viable once the production is concluded.  


Roon / Mola Mola Tambaqui / Kubala-Sosna XLR / Mola Mola Kaluga / KS biwire / B&W 803 D3

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16 hours ago, Superdad said:

Thanks to a boatload of detailed suggestions from the very sharp @Puma Cat--combined with a bit more patience and a fresh look--I went through the entire User Guide again this whole afternoon.

This is the link to revised version.  Not a world of change, just a lot of rephrasing for clarity, etc.

Onward. O.o

Looks good. I just need an EtherREGEN to go with it. 🤣 I’m in the 3rd batch. 

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Quick question that's probably been asked before but will the JS-2 be capable of supporting both the EtherRegen and the Roon Nucleus at the same time? 


Steve Schaffer

Roon Nucleus/ WD USB Drive / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler  / dCS Vivaldi DAC / dCS Vivaldi Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral DMA-500 monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia Series 2 speakers / Shunyata Denali - DPC6 - Sigma Ethernet / Synergistic Research Galileo interconnects / Uptone EtherREGEN switch

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17 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Quick question that's probably been asked before but will the JS-2 be capable of supporting both the EtherRegen and the Roon Nucleus at the same time? 

 

Hi Steve.

To elaborate, in the case of the JS-2:

Current-wise, no problem, the (7.4 amp @12V combined) JS-2 can handle both a Nucleus and an EtherREGEN simultaneously without breaking a sweat.

 

The two separately regulated JS-2 outputs are "floated" from AC mains ground (though the chassis and shield of the transformer are grounded to the IEC ground pin for safety).  However, because the JS-2 has just one transformer secondary, one set of Schottky diodes, and one large choke, its outputs share a common  zero-volt/-VE (“ground”).

 

The power input to an EtherREGEN is for the 'A' side. (The voltage that makes it over to power the 'B' side goes through full galvanic isolation, onto a separate power domain.)

Assuming your Nucleus is the DAC-attached endpoint device, then per the above, powering both the Roon Nucleus and EtherREGEN from a single JS-2 would defeat the EtherREGEN’s isolation.

 

Actually, writing this makes me realize the one scenario in which someone with just copper Ethernet might want to feed their DAC-attached endpoint from the 'A' side (with nothing else attached there) and connect to their network via the 'B' side:

Again, assuming your Nucleus is what you have attached to the DAC, then connecting to the 'A' side of the EtherREGEN and having its zero-volt/-VE (“ground”) common with the EtherREGEN--by powering both with a JS-2--will preserve the EtherREGEN's full isolation (If you connect the 'B' side to your upstream network and don't connect anything else to the 'A' side).

 

Hope that makes sense.  But perhaps you should just stick with separate powering the EtherREGEN--even just with the SMPS we include. B|

 

 

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My current and planned setup is:

 

Roon Nucleus - Shunyata Ethernet - Cisco 2960 switch - Shunyata Ethernet - dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - etc....

 

I'd thought to use the A side of the EtherREGEN for both the Nucleus and my wired WiFi Access Point (Eero mesh unit) and the B side into the dCS.

 

As an aside, the power supply shipped with the Nucleus as well as the Eero are plugged into a Shunyata DPC-6 (designed to mitigate noise from digital devices). 

 

I'd heard good things about using the JS-2 for the Nucleus and hoped it would be suitable for the EtherREGEN as well.  I'm trying to minimize the number of separate units in the system, while improving the SQ of the whole.


Steve Schaffer

Roon Nucleus/ WD USB Drive / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler  / dCS Vivaldi DAC / dCS Vivaldi Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral DMA-500 monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia Series 2 speakers / Shunyata Denali - DPC6 - Sigma Ethernet / Synergistic Research Galileo interconnects / Uptone EtherREGEN switch

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3 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

Roon Nucleus - Shunyata Ethernet - Cisco 2960 switch - Shunyata Ethernet - dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - etc....

I'd thought to use the A side of the EtherREGEN for both the Nucleus and my wired WiFi Access Point (Eero mesh unit) and the B side into the dCS.

I'd heard good things about using the JS-2 for the Nucleus and hoped it would be suitable for the EtherREGEN as well.  I'm trying to minimize the number of separate units in the system, while improving the SQ of the whole.

 

Oh sure, then a JS-2 for your Nucleus and the EtherREGEN -- with the dCS Vivaldi on the 'B' side like a typical set up-- will be great!

 

BTW, in preparation for all the heads-down crunch work getting the nearly unfathomable number (500!) EtherREGENs out November/December, we built a bit ahead on JS-2s and have 10 on the shelf all ready to go. Just say the word...:D

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Really tempting, but I'd rather wait till I have the EtherREGEN in house, in order to assess its performance over my existing switch, as step 1.  If it makes a significant difference in my system, then I'll entertain bringing in a JS-2, to see if it also lowers any "noise" or other less obvious issues related to AC-DC that are masking the music in some way.


Steve Schaffer

Roon Nucleus/ WD USB Drive / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler  / dCS Vivaldi DAC / dCS Vivaldi Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral DMA-500 monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia Series 2 speakers / Shunyata Denali - DPC6 - Sigma Ethernet / Synergistic Research Galileo interconnects / Uptone EtherREGEN switch

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

Actually, writing this makes me realize the one scenario in which someone with just copper Ethernet might want to feed their DAC-attached endpoint from the 'A' side (with nothing else attached there) and connect to their network via the 'B' side

 

Alex, are you saying this is the preferred approach with only cooper Ethernet?

 

The user guide says that connecting the server and NAS to the “A” side directly as opposed to just connecting the switch they are currently connected to would have a minimal effect on the sound.  Thus, it seems as though what you are saying above may be the best way to connect the EtherRegen.

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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11 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

Alex, are you saying this is the preferred approach with only cooper Ethernet?

Only in the situation if both server and endpoint are both powered by JS-2, as what was discussed directly above your post. If they are not galvanically isolated between the pair, at least they are isolated from the more harmful network side (router, Wi-fi mesh, general PCs, etc).

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2 minutes ago, k-man said:

Only in the situation if both server and endpoint are both powered by JS-2, as what was discussed directly above your post. If they are not galvanically isolated between the pair, at least they are isolated from the more harmful network side (router, Wi-fi mesh, general PCs, etc).

 

I would like Alex to confirm that since the way it is written does not make it contingent on using one PS for both.  That may be the case but it isn't 100% clear to me.

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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Hi Alex, I am confused with ground arrangement after seeing all these questions and answers. Signal ground is a subject I am not very familiar with. I have a dual output Keces PS so it has floating ground according to your previous comment a while ago. I am planning to power both home network switch and ER by that PS and both go into the A side. Shall I use the ground pin on the ER? And where should I connect that ground cable at the other end? To the pre-amp or the wall socket? Usually with turntable, you connect the ground to preamp, right? Same case with ER? However, I use Naim gears and their signal ground all goes to the source which is their streamer in my case. And in my case, I intend to feed Naim streamer from the B side of ER. But somehow I think this is not what you wanted?

Sorry if I asked a stupid question here :-)

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59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

Hi Alex, I am confused with ground arrangement after seeing all these questions and answers.

Sorry for the confusion.  I'll try (and fail I'm sure) to make it simpler. O.o

 

59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

Signal ground is a subject I am not very familiar with. I have a dual output Keces PS so it has floating ground according to your previous comment a while ago.

There is the clue in bold.  If the output "grounds" (in quotes because they are not earth grounds if "floated' right; that's why I always prefer to state -VE/zero-volt--i.e. the wire of the PS that is not the +DC) are in fact "floated"--and if your multi-rail LPS has separate transformer secondaries and diode bridges and claims such then they are--then it may be desirable to use the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN.

 

59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

I am planning to power both home network switch and ER by that PS and both go into the A side.

Okay, now you are confusing me but no matter. :P You can power both your regular network switch and the EtherREGEN with the rails of your Keces, no problem. And you should feed an 'A-side EtherREGEN port with the network connection from your switch (like all switches, EtherREGEN has to have some path back to a router handing out IP addresses; otherwise other devices connected won't be on your network!).  But you say "both go into the A side."  Huh?  EtherREGEN can not feed itself. Oh, maybe you are not talking about network connection but about the fact that powering the EtherREGEN is powering the 'A' side (well it powers the 'B' side to but that is fully isolated). 

 

59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

Shall I use the ground pin on the ER? And where should I connect that ground cable at the other end? To the pre-amp or the wall socket?

Any good and safe earth ground. For a lot of components their chassis are properly earthed--via a wire direct from the ground pin of the IEC inlet to the chassis. So either is okay.  If in doubt, you can check with a continuity meter.

 

59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

Usually with turntable, you connect the ground to preamp, right? Same case with ER? However, I use Naim gears and their signal ground all goes to the source which is their streamer in my case.

Sorry, I have no idea how Naim gear works in this regard. But I do know that Naim has had a LOT of odd and very non-standard ideas over the years! x-D

 

59 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

And in my case, I intend to feed Naim streamer from the B side of ER. But somehow I think this is not what you wanted?

On the contrary: If your Naim streamer is the box connected to your DAC, then the 'B' side port--on the other side of our ADIM™ moat--is the ideal place to connect it. :)

 

With very few exceptions, we will always advise that the DAC-attached streamer/renderer endpoint (even if it is just a regular computer) be connected by itself to the 'B'-side port.

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Hi Alex; Thanks for your quick reply. And sorry for my typo. Yes, my dual output linear PS powers both the ER and the home network switch that goes into the A side. 

30 minutes ago, Superdad said:

On the contrary: If your Naim streamer is the box connected to your DAC, then the 'B' side port--on the other side of our ADIM™ moat--is the ideal place to connect it. :)

 

 

The point of the question is ground. In a Naim system, all Naim components share one ground at " source " ie, my streamer. So if I connect the ER ground screw to Naim preamp then it means that I will bridge the A side to the B side through Naim preamp? Doesnt it defeat the purpose of all the isolation work you have done?

 

Cheers

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Ehsu, by all means play around with the connections as advised by Superdad. For simplicity, power the network switch with the original supply, and just leave ER powered by the Keces. No performance issues, and  you won’t have to play around with grounding.

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@k-man thanks for the advise but the whole reason for getting a multi output linear ps is because I ran out of wall socket and do not want noisy switch mode near my system. I ran 3 dedicated power spurs into my music room so there is no noisy electronics in the chain. 

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If you require more network devices connected in your music room than the etherREGEN allows, then I hope you find out your best compromise (E.g. additional ground box etc). If it’s just only your audio server, linear PS, etherREGEN and Naim in your dedicated music room, then better that network switch is plugged another place, and ADIM will handle the rest.

Sorry I can’t say more, since others will prefer to read more ER related news/updates.. :/

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