EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Superdad]

59 minutes ago, rickca said:

I don't know any other designer of audio components that would disclose that level of detail.  

 

Well it is kind of fun showing people that what they are buying has some serious material costs--in addition to the highly inspired engineering.

Having studied the PCBs of a ton of other products I can assure that others' retail prices are many more multiples of their BoM than ours.  Of course I fully understand/respect that they have completely different business models--which have to support all sorts of staff, advertising, and often typical 40-55%+ dealer/distributor discounts. 

 

Just my advantage of being small coupled with the wonders of internet selling.  The flip side is that it demands a silly number of hours to tend to and execute to a degree that people feel good about supporting us. We have all seen company "goodwill" evaporate due to--well due to whatever, fill in the blank. 

[Matias]

Industry multipliers are around 6 with traditional retail channels as far as I know. 3 going direct. But 2 really is impressive!

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Matias said:

But 2 really is impressive!

Thanks. But more like x1.7 with the EtherREGEN at $640. 

[stevebythebay]

I don't know about others on this forum, but sometimes I feel that with Uptone I'm part of a "Kickstarter" movement 😀 without any downsides (I've been burned by one Indiegogo campaign or two).  Helping Alex and John lead the way to great, new, bleeding edge tech solutions.

[Puma Cat]

14 hours ago, rickca said:

I don't know any other designer of audio components that would disclose that level of detail.  

Me, neither. I would certainly like to know exactly what clock is utilized in some other digital streaming products I own and use.... (cough, cough). It's shows that Alex has full faith in the design of his product and the value they provide that he can provide this level of detail.

 

And, he's standing by his commitment to full transparency...

[Puma Cat]

20 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I know. I must be a fool. 

 

Of course the above does not include the special-ordered Crystek CCHD-575 XO, the case, the 3 heatsinks, the custom-mixed thermal interface silicone, the included SMPS, $1 stainless steel grounding thumb-screw, flash/test/assembly labor, John's per unit royalty, and the average $25 per PayPal/credit card fees we absorb and don't charge our customers. Not counting the labor portion, all that other stuff brings total cost up to about $380 per EtherREGEN. 

So if we stay somewhat small, with not too many employees, I can make a decent living (and put something aside for a "someday" retirement). But not going to become a megalith organization with a whole Sales & Marketing staff. Personal choice.

 

Make no mistake though:

John and I have some VERY ambitious projects/products planned out for the next several years. (Don't ask; I won't tell.) Each of these will draw heavily on the cash capital that builds up from the prior successes. Thus what people may not realize is that their EtherREGEN purchases this year will fuel the R&D and production of more very cool and innovative UpTone products for the coming years. 

"NO ME-TOO ENGINEERING" is our motto!

For consideration: an Uptone Audio bespoke digital word clock with say, two 75 ohm outputs, so we can use it for our EtherREGENs and network bridges? 😜

 

 

[Puma Cat]

25 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

I don't know about others on this forum, but sometimes I feel that with Uptone I'm part of a "Kickstarter" movement 😀 without any downsides (I've been burned by one Indiegogo campaign or two).  Helping Alex and John lead the way to great, new, bleeding edge tech solutions.

You don't even want to know what it was like dealing with GNAR, Inc. to receive the Kickstarter-funded GNARBOX 2.0 Wifi-enabled ruggedized hard drive that I won in a contest in October last year, Steve. They shipped...9.5 months after the originally promised date.

 

Alex & John managed expectations in a much more professional and experienced manner, only publicly releasing a launch date when he could provide an accurate prediction with minimal variance. 

 

That's the difference between two estblished professionals with >30 years of hard-won industry & business experience vs. a very immature startup that only released 1 product before. 

 

Okay, back on topic. 

[marce]

On 10/14/2019 at 6:22 PM, Puma Cat said:

Its going to sound better. It was designed from the ground up by an engineer with 30+ years of industry experience to do this.  The AQ-Vox switch is a modification of an existing IT-based product, a D-link switch. 

 

And the EtherREGEN will cost ~30% less. 

I will second this, from what I have seen of the internal mods by Aqvox to the switch I would not touch it with a barge pole... For less money you get an Galvanicly isolated switch with the clocks done properly.... I know which I would recommend, the Uptone (and I'm a true heretic😁 and my view is based on technical appearance alone)  it really is a no brainer...

[Jørgen Skadhauge]

I wonder if it will be possible to use the new etherREGEN in a Merging Ravenna system, AES67 standard?

I have ordered a  MERGING ANUBIS DAC and will use AUDIRVANA as player.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Jørgen Skadhauge said:

I wonder if it will be possible to use the new etherREGEN in a Merging Ravenna system, AES67 standard?

I have ordered a  MERGING ANUBIS DAC and will use AUDIRVANA as player.

 

Hi Jørgen:

Well despite most Ravenna and AES67 specs calling for Gigabit ports, if one only running 2 channels (even at high sample rates) in a simple system, our 100Mbps limitation on the EtherREGEN's 'B'-side port should not be an issue.  I know that most Dante devices will work with 100Mbps.  Still, we can not know for sure with regards your Anubis until you try it.

 

The other requirement that Merging and the AES67 consortium usually puts forth is that the switch be a fully managed unit.  The Ethernet switch chip in the EtherREGEN is a full-blown managed switch part (supporting all the latest IEEE 802.3xx standards), but we did not enable web-browser access for user adjustment of parameters.  It is just plug-and-play.  

 

If it ever came to it and users discovered a real need for us to turn on QoS for some ports, the EtherREGEN has an internally mounted microUSB port designed for very easy loading of revised firmware (by users in the field without having to ship back to us). We could change some configuration registers for the switch to enable other features.

[Superdad]

Busy days, but soon to get MUCH busier!

Found enough extra correct screws from UltraCap stock for my assistant to assemble the fronts of about 50 EtherREGEN cases.  The rest of the screws (along with 250 overdue UltraCap cases so we can clear back-orders next week) arrive tomorrow. 

 

Here are some pics, including a newly assembled dozen of JS-2s waiting for me to test/heat-soak, and the flash and test station set up for EtherREGEN production.

[And for those who have not seen our shop photos before: Yes, that is ping-pong table.  It is our largest and most productive work surface; I designed the entire work-flow of the space around it. Once in a while we clear it off, lift off the protective boards, and play a game or two. Mostly during the holidays when the kids come home.]

 

I'm about halfway done writing the User Guide, and given that it is only Wednesday I feel pretty darn good about how this week has gone (though it feels like it should be Friday ).

 

[dminches]

Alex,  giving us some peaks into your world is informative and appreciated. 
 

[HumanMedia]

@Superdad

 

Sorry if Ive missed it but what is the trigger point for you shipping the first units out?

Not that it affects me, but the whole process is fascinating.

That is, will you wait until all of the first batch are built before shipping any?

Or if 50 are ready ship those and ship another batch a few days later?

What are the hurdles to shipping any right now?

User manuals? Screws? Labor availability? Code?

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, HumanMedia said:

 

Sorry if Ive missed it but what is the trigger point for you shipping the first units out?

Not that it affects me, but the whole process is fascinating.

That is, will you wait until all of the first batch are built before shipping any?

Or if 50 are ready ship those and ship another batch a few days later?

 

I am big into efficiency and assembly line procedues.  Just due to the various steps: Unpacking and laying out boards and attaching heat sinks, flashing with code both ‘A’ and ‘B’ side microprocessors, testing each board, assembling cases and inserting board, wrapping, kitting, producing shipping labels and commercial invoices (for overseas shipments), making sure special order Instructions are minded, etc.—and due to space constraints, it really is more practical to do all this working towards a couple of consecutive big shipping days.

It’s fun to drive up to the back of the post office and wheel their large carts over to load... Did this a lot in the past with REGEN and UltraCap launches.

 

1 hour ago, HumanMedia said:

What are the hurdles to shipping any right now?

User manuals? Screws? Labor availability? Code?

 

Just waiting for the first 245 boards to arrive on about the 29th.

The programming/test station is all set up and verified.  My assistant has cleared her schedule and commited to the hours.  The custom-mixed specialty thermal interface adhesive for the heat sinks arrives late next week.  Honestly, short of something horrible like the boards not working (not likely since they are virtually the same as what passed the beta cycle with flying colorrs), there really is nothing keeping us from hitting our targets.  

Actually, we will be attempting to ship out 85 units to our dealers about one week ahead of the promised November 15th direct-sale first batch date.  Focus, focus, focus... 

[Jud]

8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

What are the hurdles to shipping any right now

The reason I smiled is because this gave me an image of a couple hundred EtherREGEN customers (I’m one) thinking “Yes! What are the hurdles to shipping my unit *right now*?!”  🙂

[Puma Cat]

16 hours ago, Superdad said:

Busy days, but soon to get MUCH busier!

Found enough extra correct screws from UltraCap stock for my assistant to assemble the fronts of about 50 EtherREGEN cases.  The rest of the screws (along with 250 overdue UltraCap cases so we can clear back-orders next week) arrive tomorrow. 

 

Here are some pics, including a newly assembled dozen of JS-2s waiting for me to test/heat-soak, and the flash and test station set up for EtherREGEN production.

[And for those who have not seen our shop photos before: Yes, that is ping-pong table.  It is our largest and most productive work surface; I designed the entire work-flow of the space around it. Once in a while we clear it off, lift off the protective boards, and play a game or two. Mostly during the holidays when the kids come home.]

 

I'm about halfway done writing the User Guide, and given that it is only Wednesday I feel pretty darn good about how this week has gone (though it feels like it should be Friday ).

 

Love the use of the ping-pong table! It reminds me of the LEAN manufacturing cells we used at work for oligonucleotide production. "Flow" is good...

[Puma Cat]

11 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I am big into efficiency and assembly line procedues.  Just due to the various steps: Unpacking and laying out boards and attaching heat sinks, flashing with code both ‘A’ and ‘B’ side microprocessors, testing each board, assembling cases and inserting board, wrapping, kitting, producing shipping labels and commercial invoices (for overseas shipments), making sure special order Instructions are minded, etc.—and due to space constraints, it really is more practical to do all this working towards a couple of consecutive big shipping days.

It’s fun to drive up to the back of the post office and wheel their large carts over to load... Did this a lot in the past with REGEN and UltraCap launches.

 

 

Just waiting for the first 245 boards to arrive on about the 29th.

The programming/test station is all set up and verified.  My assistant has cleared her schedule and commited to the hours.  The custom-mixed specialty thermal interface adhesive for the heat sinks arrives late next week.  Honestly, short of something horrible like the boards not working (not likely since they are virtually the same as what passed the beta cycle with flying colorrs), there really is nothing keeping us from hitting our targets.  

Actually, we will be attempting to ship out 85 units to our dealers about one week ahead of the promised November 15th direct-sale first batch date.  Focus, focus, focus... 

Cool. Sounds like you're doing some heijunka (leveling) in a LEAN process. All good. 

[Puma Cat]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

The reason I smiled is because this gave me an image of a couple hundred EtherREGEN customers (I’m one) thinking “Yes! What are the hurdles to shipping my unit *right now*?!”  🙂

LOL. Near as I can tell, there aren't any hurdles...Alex is has got his mfg. process all mapped out to create flow and maximize the value-stream. 

[Indydan]

Silly question maybe, but do we get a tracking number when the order ships? The EtherRegen is the first Uptone product I have ordered. 

[Superdad]

40 minutes ago, Indydan said:

Silly question maybe, but do we get a tracking number when the order ships? The EtherRegen is the first Uptone product I have ordered. 

Of course! 

Did you receive the order acknowledgment e-mail shortly after you placed your order?  Because the same system will send the shipment tracking notice to the same e-mail address. If you did not receive an acknowledgment e-mail then please check your SPAM filter.  

And you can send us a message with a correct or different e-mail address so that the shipping notice goes there.

Thanks. 

[Superdad]

The User Guide for EtherREGEN is at last complete! 

 

I worked on this every day--and a few nights--this past week. I hate to write--other than socially--but I do it well when I have to. Still, if I knew going in that it would wind up being this long, I probably would have panicked. 

I think it turned out nicely and will be useful. And if EtherREGEN owners actually read it we might avoid a flood of e-mailed questions. 

 

Here is the link:  EtherREGEN User Guide.  It is a 3.3Mb PDF.  

It is also at our web site on the virtually empty EtherREGEN Q&A page.

 

I will be submitting it to an on-line print service Monday afternoon.  Please, if you discover any typographical errors, try to let me know before then.

 

We are still progressing on schedule for EtherREGEN production.

 

And now that another 250 aluminum cases arrived for UltraCap LPS-1.2, all 45 back orders--for UltraCap LPS-1.2 and ISO REGEN/UltraCap LPS-1.2 bundles--will be shipped by this Wednesday.

Then I leave on Thursday for a long-weekend getaway with my wife.  Upon my return to the office the 28th, the entire first production run of EtherREGEN boards should begin arriving.  That's when the real work begins: Attaching heat-sinks, flashing code, and testing--for every unit. Then assembly into cases, kitting, shipping in groups. 

My wife may have hiking and kayaking in mind, but I think I'll be resting up advance of what is sure to be weeks of round-the-clock fun. 

 

Ciao!

--ALEX

[Nenon]

Good job on the manual. PM with some comments sent! 

[jamesg11]

User Guide p.9, end of par 1 - missing a line of text ...

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, PYP said:

saw a few typos and will look further tomorrow (and make a list with page numbers, etc.)

 

19 hours ago, Nenon said:

Good job on the manual. PM with some comments sent! 

 

17 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

User Guide p.9, end of par 1 - missing a line of text ...

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I have made fixes and incorporated all your suggestions. You gents all have quick eyes and keen insights. 

New version of the User Guide is linked above and here.

 

Good night all.

[pl_svn]

4 hours ago, dminches said:

The diagram in the user guide shows the server and NAS connected to the main, generic switch and that switch connected to one of the “A’ ports.  Is there any advantage to connecting the server and NAS directly to the “A” ports?

 

"A typical user will attach a single Ethernet cable from their main network router or switch to any of these ‘A’-side ports—as illustrated on the opposite page. This leaves open three additional RJ45 copper ports (and the SFP cage) on the ‘A’ side. The choice to connect any server, NAS (network attached storage), or other devices to these ports—or to leave that equipment attached to your main upstream switch/router—is mostly a matter of convenience and effects on sonic performance are likely to be small."