EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[thotdoc]

3 hours ago, Matias said:

You should definitely try an ISO Regen after the ultraRendu. I used it here and it does make a difference. Most likely after an opticalRendu as well.

 

In my case the option would be to upgrade the generic switch to an EtherRegen an keep the ultraRendu. Or keep the generic switch and upgrade to an opticalModule + opticalRendu combo. Decisions...

The etherREGEN. does something quite different than the OM & OR. I believe, the choice is use both ER and OM & OR or replace the OM with the etherREGEN.

[Matias]

41 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

The etherREGEN. does something quite different than the OM & OR. I believe, the choice is use both ER and OM & OR or replace the OM with the etherREGEN.

 

My current setup:

ethernet cable coming to living room => generic switch => ultraRendu (and other non audio devices: AVR, HTPC, video game console) => ISO Regen => DAC.

 

Upgrade path option 1:

ethernet cable => EtherREGEN => ultraRendu on B side (and other devices on A side) => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Upgrade path option 2:

ethernet cable => generic switch => opticalModule (and other devices) => opticalRendu => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Both should provide electrical isolation and better phase noise to the different Rendus.

But option 2 raises the box count, which is not desirable...

[jos]

4 minutes ago, Matias said:

 

My current setup:

ethernet cable coming to living room => generic switch => ultraRendu (and other non audio devices: AVR, HTPC, video game console) => ISO Regen => DAC.

 

Upgrade path option 1:

ethernet cable => EtherREGEN => ultraRendu (and other devices) => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Upgrade path option 2:

ethernet cable => generic switch => opticalModule (and other devices) => opticalRendu => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Both should provide electrical isolation and better phase noise to the different Rendus.

But option 2 raises the box count, which is not desirable...

In mine opinion, upgrade path 1 is the right way to go (less cost, same quality; if I read previous post from Alex/John between the lines). Also: keep it simple as possible is my opinion.

 

I have two possible paths too...

 

1) Using the A-side from the EtherREGEN in my utility room for my NAS, Router, AppleTV and IMac. And the B-side to my ultraRendu->Qutest DAC. The cable on the B-side to my ultraRendu will be about 8 meter (all the cables are Supra CAT8). In this situation the EtherREGEN is replacing my Netgear switch.

 

2) Placing the EtherREGEN near my ultrarendu->Qutest DAC in my hifi rack. I need an extra short Supra CAT8 cable. The present cable will go into the A-side.

 

I prefer option 1, but perhaps option 2 is the better solution. Btw. Supra cables are very well shielded, so I think option 1 is also a good possibility. Any thoughts would be welcome, thanks!

[Adyc]

6 hours ago, Matias said:

 

My current setup:

ethernet cable coming to living room => generic switch => ultraRendu (and other non audio devices: AVR, HTPC, video game console) => ISO Regen => DAC.

 

Upgrade path option 1:

ethernet cable => EtherREGEN => ultraRendu on B side (and other devices on A side) => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Upgrade path option 2:

ethernet cable => generic switch => opticalModule (and other devices) => opticalRendu => ISO Regen => DAC

 

Both should provide electrical isolation and better phase noise to the different Rendus.

But option 2 raises the box count, which is not desirable...

For option 2, I would replace OM with ER. If what Alex says is true on the power supply of ER, one doesn’t need to buy an expensive LPS for ER. However, a lot of reports say OM improves with better LPS. So the total cost is actually cheaper for ER.  Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

 

That’s what I’m going to do.

 

[vortecjr]

38 minutes ago, Adyc said:

For option 2, I would replace OM with ER. If what Alex says is true on the power supply of ER, one doesn’t need to buy an expensive LPS for ER. However, a lot of reports say OM improves with better LPS. So the total cost is actually cheaper for ER.  Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

 

That’s what I’m going to do.

 

We have the opticalModule with a SGC linear supply on our website for 395 USD. That is 240 USD less than a ER which will be 640 USD.

 

The PS on the ER does not matter...famous last words:) 

 

When Alex sends me an ER to try I'll be powering it with my linear supply.

[Matias]

3 hours ago, Adyc said:

For option 2, I would replace OM with ER. If what Alex says is true on the power supply of ER, one doesn’t need to buy an expensive LPS for ER. However, a lot of reports say OM improves with better LPS. So the total cost is actually cheaper for ER.  Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

 

That’s what I’m going to do.

 

In my case I meet Ethernet to other devices too. So using an EtherRegen B side input, optical to opticalRendu and other devices on A side is not ideal, as per John's explanation. This would work only if there were no other devices on the A side.

 

Also on my case there is the price difference between buying a new opticalRendu and selling my ultraRendu.

 

Option 1 makes more sense to me.

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Matias said:

In my case I meet Ethernet to other devices too. So using an EtherRegen B side input, optical to opticalRendu and other devices on A side is not ideal, as per John's explanation. This would work only if there were no other devices on the A side.

 

Please remember folks:

You could defeat the isolation moat or use just the 'A' side ports and EtherREGEN will still be the most advanced Ethernet switch available.   Look closely at our tech. 

[lxgreen]

I plan on getting the EtherRegen b side to optical module to optical rendu. Not sure if it will provide improvement in sq over my current setup with Cisco switch to optical module to optical rendu but worth a try. I wanted to use other a ports for other stuff so won’t run from optical port on EtherRegen. Maybe dumb question but is there any theoretical advantage of using one of the other A ports to connect to my AppleTV for home theater use, either improved video or audio?

[Bernstein]

In my setup the EtherRegen will connect directly to a DigiOne Signature. The rest of the four ports will be used only for the Roon Core and Internet Connection. So I am really curious to see the benefits driving the DigiOne Signature, which is also powered by LPS 1.2 and connected with AQ Diamond Ethernet and SPDif cable. 

[HumanMedia]

Tick, tick, tick...

When is the moratorium lifted on beta tester opinions and reviews? At the stroke of midnight on the day of orders? Or at the time that orders go live?

 

 

 

[FrankMA]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:29 AM, FrankMA said:

 

Just want to be sure in my scenario the EtherRegen is worth adding.  I would be replacing the Cisco in my chain with the EtherRegen. Since I am currently using USB out of the Innuos server, am I correct to assume the impact would be minimal? However if I was going Ethernet from my server to my DAC (Innuos has an Ethernet Out), inserting the EtherRegen for the Cisco and feeding the Innuos from the isolated/B side of the ER would result in a major impact.

 

Am I understanding this correctly? 

 

No advice on my setup? Probably because this group would like one less person with his finger on the buy button today 😀

 

Would this be the best use of the ER:

 

B Side to Innuos

Innuos>DS Sr (Direct Ethernet connection or tX-USBultra/USB)

 

I'll compare but if I go USB can the DS Sr be connected to the A Side (so it can be on the network) without doing any damage or is this defeating the isolation?

 

I'm assuming anything in this audio rack could be connected to the A Side without adding noise/sound degradation to the primary audio chain via Port B. Correct?

 

Thank you (I think.....)

[Cable Monkey]

Isolating the Innuos would be a sensible move. From there simply assess which method suits you better. The only other alternative that I can see would be Innuos and internet access into the A side and DS Snr out of the B side. But the reality is, if you get one you can try all options yourself.

[vortecjr]

13 hours ago, Adyc said:

Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

This is an incorrect assumption. The A side of the ER is an ethernt format converter run from LT linear regulators and femto series Crystek oscillator. This is the design of an opticalModule is as well. The A side and B side of the ER is separated by the moat via IC circuits. The opticalModule and opticalRendu are separated via fiber optic cable providing 100% galvanic isolation. The B side of the ER has a switch chip run from LT linear regulators and the femto series Crystek oscillator on the A side. The switch chip drives the SFP and RJ45 ports which pollute each other when utilized together. The opticalRendu has the same switch chip run from LT linear regulators, but has its own femto series Crystek oscillator. No other ports are provided on the opticalRendu to avoid the obvious pollution from other connected devices and because it's not necessary for an endpoint. 

[soares]

9 hours ago, lxgreen said:

I plan on getting the EtherRegen b side to optical module to optical rendu. Not sure if it will provide improvement in sq over my current setup with Cisco switch to optical module to optical rendu but worth a try. I wanted to use other a ports for other stuff so won’t run from optical port on EtherRegen. Maybe dumb question but is there any theoretical advantage of using one of the other A ports to connect to my AppleTV for home theater use, either improved video or audio?

Most probably. I felt a difference with my TV when first I used a Cisco and then when on top of the Cisco I used an oM. I guess the least sophisticated a TV is, better will be the results... 

[charlesphoto]

2 hours ago, vortecjr said:

This is an incorrect assumption. The A side of the ER is an ethernt format converter run from LT linear regulators and femto series Crystek oscillator. This is the design of an opticalModule is as well. The A side and B side of the ER is separated by the moat via IC circuits. The opticalModule and opticalRendu are separated via fiber optic cable providing 100% galvanic isolation. The B side of the ER has a switch chip run from LT linear regulators and the femto series Crystek oscillator on the A side. The switch chip drives the SFP and RJ45 ports which pollute each other when utilized together. The opticalRendu has the same switch chip run from LT linear regulators, but has its own femto series Crystek oscillator. No other ports are provided on the opticalRendu to avoid the obvious pollution from other connected devices and because it's not necessary for an endpoint. 

 

My assumption is that the opticalModules (and/or opticalRendu) and the EthereRegen will pretty much get one to the same place - it just depends on the topology of your system (for example if you already have a fiber run in place like I did). Not sure if it would make any difference or be at all cost effective to run both at the same time, esp if one has an industrial quality switch like a Cisco in place already preceding the oM's/oR. Of course, there being plenty of members here who will jump on anything Uptone or Sonore related, we'll soon find out and have comparisons in no time I'm sure. It is great to have both options from two stellar companies. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, vortecjr said:

This is an incorrect assumption. The A side of the ER is an ethernt format converter run from LT linear regulators and femto series Crystek oscillator. This is the design of an opticalModule is as well. The A side and B side of the ER is separated by the moat via IC circuits. The opticalModule and opticalRendu are separated via fiber optic cable providing 100% galvanic isolation. The B side of the ER has a switch chip run from LT linear regulators and the femto series Crystek oscillator on the A side. The switch chip drives the SFP and RJ45 ports which pollute each other when utilized together. The opticalRendu has the same switch chip run from LT linear regulators, but has its own femto series Crystek oscillator. No other ports are provided on the opticalRendu to avoid the obvious pollution from other connected devices and because it's not necessary for an endpoint. 

 

You have our 'A' side and 'B' side backwards Jesus.

More importantly, what you are missing is that the EtherREGEN is about much more than simply galvanic isolation.  The active differential  isolators and the differential flip-flops are the heart of the design.  They block the passage of deterministic jitter--coming in from upstream connections and generated by the ('A' side) chips themselves. John will write about this and show measures of it, but these are second-order low-frequency (<100KHz) effects which show up on the power and ground planes and inside the chips themselves. It is common-mode stuff, so the only way to get rid of it is with differential isolation and differential reclocking flops.

 

Despite the opticalModule having some parts in common with the EtherREGEN (I'm avoiding saying "borrowing" despite John having begun the EtherREGEN 6 months prior to the oM ), our products are quite different from each other.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

 

[Dutch]

😂

 

[pl_svn]

still 8 7 minutes to that 😉

[RickyV]

I am ready to attack.🤠 pistoles blazing eagerly waiting for the  9th hour.
 

I give it 10 minutes before it’s sold out.

 

Good luck to everybody but mostly to myself 🙄

[Superdad]

Let the good times roll...

[Superdad]

OMG!

That was fast.  All sold out in just one hour!

The first run sold out in 6 minutes, the entire second run sold out in the remainder of the hour. THANK YOU ALL!

 

Order #8999 will be the last order to receive an EtherREGEN from the second run.

 

Because of the pace of the first arriving orders, I completely missed changing the web page in time to tell folks they would be in the second batch.  Please give me some time to sort this out.

Order #8912 is officially the last 1st-batch (November shipment) order.  I think I changed the page somewhere around #8936, so about two dozen people who thought they got into the first batch did not. December for them.

 

A big favor: Please do not post questions or send e-mails about order numbers.  I have a lot to focus on and assess--now not only to execute November and December production, but also to plan a third production run, for January. 

[rickca]

55 minutes ago, Superdad said:

The first run sold out in 6 minutes, the entire second run sold out in the remainder of the hour.

That's got to be a record.  Congratulations!

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Sorry to ignore your request to not ask things about order numbers but are you sure what you wrote is correct? I mean #8999 last order second run and #8912 last order first run are less than a 100 apart. Could of course be the case if there were huge orders there.

 

The transition numbers are all correct. Our smart overseas dealers combined already reserved 150 units from the second batch of 250.

[Superdad]

40 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

Well, it seems the first run sold out in three minutes, because I received my confirmation email at 11:03 AM and missed the first-batch cut by single digits.  Maybe after the re-recount a few people will be found to have ordered two or more units and I'll squeak into the first batch.

No, I went by order number, not unit orders.  That is, before starting, I figured out how many orders (counting each as one) could go before the start of the second batch.

 

Quote

It seems: if you didn't start typing within the first 10 or 15 seconds from 9:00 AM PDT, you didn't get in the first batch!

Pretty much.  I really thought I was being clever and had it all together, but by the time I could get our web site dashboard screen to refresh, the first batch was gone! At first I was confused seeing orders in the 89xx range.

'Twas a crazy, wild ride.  

Now I'm staring at parts lists to get boards ordered for January.

 

Oh, and the final cases arrived today.  After lunch I'll stick one of the beta boards in one and take some photos.  

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, nonesup said:

I do not get it.  If Alex says that the first batch sold out in 6 minutes and I received the confirmation email from Uptone at 18:04, how am I out of the first batch?

My apologies.  What is your order number?

 

I want you all to know that we are going to be doing our very best to take care of every order in a timely manner.  (Though it may take a couple of days to dig out of all the follow-up e-mails we received. so many questions...)

While this might seem a great day--and yes we are pleased--I view these orders as a liability until they are all shipped. You may have given us your money but I don't consider it ours until you are happy with an EtherREGENs in your music system.