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EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]


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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

EtherREGEN web page is up!

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/EtherREGEN

 

Launch announcement and details thread begun:

 

Yup!

Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed 

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10 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

This is starting to move off topic here so I will conclude with "it all depends". All of this is highly system specific. Seeing a photo of your setup helps in that it means you are probably plugging all of your equipment into a single electrical circuit so using LPS MIGHT help cut down any electrical noise on the circuit. Also, you have carpet (vs hardwood) which can affect things. Cables sitting on carpet can POTENTIALLY pick up static electricity.

 

It also depends if you are streaming music from the Internet vs playing local files. With local files, you are not running anything through your modem and router. If you are streaming then PERHAPS upgrading modem and router MIGHT help but as I mentioned earlier, a streaming file has gone through probably hundreds of pieces of network gear before it arrives at your house so ...

 

Also, some people here can tell the difference when they swap out what is seemly the most benign item but report hearing significant improvements. I have experienced that some changes help and others don't, quite unexpectedly at times. For instance, the Cisco switch that was being promoted as improving sound actually sounded worse in my system which is predominantly optical network.

 

The promise of the EtherREGEN is to "scrub" the line. Obviously the less junk it needs to scrub, PROBABLY the better but again, that is for you to determine. That is why the Uptone and Sonore guys leave it to the end user to access the results and why they provide return policies.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Yes, this is a bit off-topic; however, no one will be utilizing an EtherREGEN if they haven't first installed a modem and router!

 

For the time being, until I spring for a Power Re-generator (which may never happen), I am plugging my CD transport, streamer/DAC, and headphone amplifier (and eventually modem and router and EtherREGEN) into an IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner (this model comes in the form of a power strip, with six outlets); it receives its power via an IEC plug on one end.  The power conditioner is serviced by a 12 gauge Silver Sonic cable from DH Labs; the power comes directly from a 15 amp circuit breaker in my 200 Amp box.  See photo below; when I say directly, I mean: there is no duplex receptacle in the wall - it is one continuous run from the circuit breaker to the power conditioner. 

[Additionally (when I get caught up), I'll install a separate ground rod in the flower bed outside my Study window, and ground this one circuit independently from the main line coming into my house.  According to people who used to design fighter jets, or design comm systems for submarines (imagine trying to fit, and isolate, every listening, video, and networking device in your entire neighborhood in a space the size of a nice walk-in closet), a separate ground is supposed to make a big difference in sound quality.]

 

My equipment rack sits on brass footers with a 3/4" point on them (and the footers are threaded to the solid 1-1/4" steel rod), so "vibrations" should be (are!) transferred directly to my wood sub-floor.  None of my cables, cords, or interconnects sit on the carpet.  Maybe you can see from the photo below, right:  I've re-purposed a slightly damaged laundry rack to "manage" my (ribbon) interconnects and shielded (also ribbon-based) power cords.  It works for now; although I may come up with a more elegant solution in the future (suspend small diameter maple rods horizontally from the ceiling, supported by silk thread.  You think I'm kidding  😊 ...).

 

At least 90% of my listening is done by streaming music from TIDAL (thus the interest in a quality "sounding" modem and router - and the desire to utilize a router that does not include Wi-Fi).  The only time I use my CD player, as a transport, is if I want to listen to CDs containing music not available on TIDAL.  I do have some seriously well-recorded CDs from Mapleshade (and their other label, Wildchild) that aren't available anywhere else, as well as a few obscure others (known mainly because of her appearance on Rockstar Supernova, Dilana's Wonderfool is one).  I have a computer in the other corner of the room, obviously powered on a different circuit, but I don't have any music stored anywhere other than on CDs, and there is no laptop or other kind of (non-audiophile) computer anywhere in the streaming chain.  Literally, it is just modem, router, streamer, headphone amp, headphones.  (On the way: EtherREGEN)

 

I realize the music (data) I am streaming has gone through many many many other pieces of equipment before it reaches the coax cable running under my house, terminating at my modem.  But, I'll bet not a single piece of that equipment is as cheaply made, from the least expensive parts that will possibly work, as what can be found in most consumer modems and routers.  I do want to preserve whatever quality of signal that finally does make it to my modem - however good or bad it is when it comes to my house, I don't want to make it worse!

 

Aside:  I assume I'm going to have to be the first one to power my modem and router via the JS-2 Linear Power Supply, to see if an LPS for modem and router makes any difference in sound quality (vs their respective wall warts)?

 

If no one has any thoughts, I guess it will also fall upon me to do some A-B testing of modems and routers.  Maybe I'll stick with my all-in-one crapola modem/wi-fi router that allows me to donate another $13/month to Comcast, until my EtherREGEN unit arrives.  Maybe by then I'll have all my other ducks in a row!

Power Conditioner and rack - cropped at 25% size.jpg

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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ADIM indeed.  Expect that streaming from the ‘net (Radio Paradise, JB, Rondo, etc.), apart from local sources, will see an important benefit from the ADIM as well. 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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8 hours ago, DelsFan said:

Aside:  I assume I'm going to have to be the first one to power my modem and router via the JS-2 Linear Power Supply, to see if an LPS for modem and router makes any difference in sound quality (vs their respective wall warts)?

Thank for sharing your set up with us. Just to say that using a LPS I had an improvement in my set up (sound & image). Cheers Jorge

Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule>
SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45>

IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45>
etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen>

USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature.
 

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Hi Alex

Will the website allow several customers to be buying an EtherRegen concurrently, or will it only be possible in a sequence?

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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2 hours ago, nonesup said:

Hi Alex

Will the website allow several customers to be buying an EtherRegen concurrently, or will it only be possible in a sequence?

 

We use the big e-commerce engine Shopify.  It can handle lots of orders coming in at the same time.  EtherREGEN is the 5th big launch we have done this way. And none of the others "crashed." 9_9

The one challenge on launch morning will be counting the ordered units fast enough to change the web-page-promised-ship-date at just the right moment.  But I have a strategy for that. It involves sending a few e-mails--after the dust settles--to any people I suspect were right in the transition range, just to let them know where they landed.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, cat6man said:

we just don't know everything that impacts SQ yet.

the etherRegen nicely attacks 2 known sources of degradation.

 

So true.  What we suspect is that some things that mattered before will matter a LOT less, while other upstream variables will become MORE apparent. Discovering which will be the full of it for everyone! B|

 

I've been a tweaking audiophile--working with engineer/mentors--for more than 40 years, and I can count on one hand the number of technological solutions which were effective enough to make other things fully cease to matter in an audio system. Significant improvements in one element of the chain almost always make other small changes more obvious and not less.

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This afternoon I have again (to remember how the sound was improved) the test of disconnecting the network cable that connects the Router with my Aqvox Switch, while playing music.  Well only with EtherRegen giving me that increase in sound quality I would already be satisfied, although I have to admit, that it still improves with respect to the disconnection of the cable, since although it is impossible to improve the insulation (upstream), which causes removing  the cable, however safe the EtherRegen generates less noise than the Aqvox

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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Saw the order announcement this am. Very nice. Congrats. So looking forward to getting one but still have a question. You have the one 100 Mbps port on the B side and the 4 gigabit ports plus optical on A side. You recommend using the lone B port to go to my streamer for best results but if the sides are mostly symmetrical I’m trying to figure out how to use in my system. I have an optical rendu so originally I was planning to use the optical port to feed this as you say can be done in your announcement. I was going to use the b port to go to router. Can I feed the b side from my router and get best results? This makes more sense to me bc then I would have 4 ports across the most to feed other things. Is it a 100 mbps vs gigabit issue? Or are you saying to get best results feed router to A side and use other A ports for other devices and use the b side as you recommended to feed optical Rendu. I have an optical module to use this way so not an issue. Thanks 

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14 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I have an optical rendu so originally I was planning to use the optical port to feed this as you say can be done in your announcement. I was going to use the b port to go to router. Can I feed the b side from my router and get best results? This makes more sense to me bc then I would have 4 ports across the most to feed other things. Is it a 100 mbps vs gigabit issue? 

 

Hi. This post of John's should clear things up for you:

 

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

So true.  What we suspect is that some things that mattered before will matter a LOT less, while other upstream variables will become MORE apparent. Discovering which will be the full of it for everyone! B|

 

 

evaluating the impact of a component must also be understood in context of the order, in time (which was added first) and space (in what order/position was it added)  in which things are done.

 

an engineering example is adding increasing diversity to a wireless communication system, where we can use time-diversity, space-diversity or frequency-diversity techniques, as well as any combination of these (e.g. 4G/5G cellular or the latest wifi standards). 

 

a generally observed empirical rule is that the last level of diversity often added provides the smallest improvement (even if it may provide the largest improvement when added alone).  all of this matters and makes critical evaluations very hard to do with all the variations possible.

 

enough pontificating here......let's get back to BUILD THAT MOAT! 

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7 hours ago, cat6man said:

 

Anyone with an opticalRendu planning to be in the first group??

 

Enjoy.

Yes. I'll try it with and without the opticalModule. They are doing different things so I expect 'with' will sound best.

 

That said, at this point, I don't know how much better this all gets.  

 

The changes I've made since going digital were all incremental...until the UltraRendu and the LPS-1.2.  That was a jump that was not just incremental. The Optical setup was closer to incremental over the  ultraRendu I think because the wire leading into my house is optical.

 

I have nothing that has attaked the problem sources that this will. It may be incremental or more...I'm looking forward to it. 

Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed 

HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55"

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1 hour ago, simorag said:

Stupid incoming question alert, sorry in advance 😳

 

Will the EtherREGEN provide a sound quality benefit even when playing local files?

 

I play local files ONLY ... as in PC > REDNET D16 AES > DAC. I'm looking forward with some confidence to trying an EtherRegen such: PC > EtherRegen > REDNET D16 AES > DAC. (Enquiries suggest 100 Mbps will work.)

 

I guess any offline system might benefit where the music signal passes along a network/ethernet cable.

 

(If local music doesn't, what is the SQ delta unplugging your upstream internet connection ...?)

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20 hours ago, Superdad said:

Discovering which will be the full of it for everyone!

It also might be fun.  

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Hi everyone, I'm thinking about buying the EtherREGEN, but I don't understand how it would get inserted into the system  if I'm using an optical module and opticalrendu.  Right now my switch is connected via ethernet cable to my optical module, and the optical module connects via optical cable to the opticalrendu.  How would I connect the etherREGEN?  I'm confused as to how to set up and integrate the EtherREGEN if you're using the Sonore products.  Many thanks for your suggestions and feedback.  

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13 minutes ago, Musikfan said:

Hi everyone, I'm thinking about buying the EtherREGEN, but I don't understand how it would get inserted into the system  if I'm using an optical module and opticalrendu.  Right now my switch is connected via ethernet cable to my optical module, and the optical module connects via optical cable to the opticalrendu.  How would I connect the etherREGEN?  I'm confused as to how to set up and integrate the EtherREGEN if you're using the Sonore products.  Many thanks for your suggestions and feedback.  

 

Replace your switch with an EtherRegen, use the B side clean output to the opticalModule, and link it to the opticalRendu. Seems to be overkill to me but I am sure many will try and use this.

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3 hours ago, Matias said:

Replace your switch with an EtherRegen, use the B side clean output to the opticalModule, and link it to the opticalRendu. Seems to be overkill to me but I am sure many will try and use this.

 

Well, despite the fact that we are not aiming the EtherREGEN directly at opticalRendu users, I really must correct you here. Due to the extraordinary differential isolation and reclocking, it will most always be best to have the EtherREGEN as the last device feeding the DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer. If you insert a device in-between—even the best-in-class opticaModule FMC—then you reintroduce another path for leakage and new phase-noise modulation.

 

So for the person ( @Musikfan) you were replying to, (technically) the better arrangement options will to skip the opticModule and run copper into the EtherREGEN and optical out to the opticalRendu.

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5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

I n the first case even though the data is not traveling over the network, if you still have an Ethernet cable connected to the computer you can still have leakage current over the cable, and phase noise coming in on other packets going into the computer. So the EtherREGEN may still make a difference.

 

Just want to be sure in my scenario the EtherRegen is worth adding.  I would be replacing the Cisco in my chain with the EtherRegen. Since I am currently using USB out of the Innuos server, am I correct to assume the impact would be minimal? However if I was going Ethernet from my server to my DAC (Innuos has an Ethernet Out), inserting the EtherRegen for the Cisco and feeding the Innuos from the isolated/B side of the ER would result in a major impact.

 

Am I understanding this correctly? 

Windows 10 2019-10-06 06-24-53.jpg

MAIN: Sonore Optical Module Deluxe/Farad Super 3 (7v) > Uptone EtherRegen/Farad Super 3(9v)/AfterDark Emperor Signature/Farad Super 3 (12v) > Innuos Zenith MKII SE (ER A) > ER (B) > Meitner MA-3 DAC > Ayre K-5xe MP Preamplifier > Ayre VX-5 Twenty Amplifier  > Vandersteen Quatro Woods

POWER: AQ Niagara 5000 > AQ (Hurricane)/Triode Wire Labs/Shunyata Python/Nordost Blue Heaven/Audience AU24 SE/Audio Sensibilities Sig Silver

CABLING: Silversmith Audio Fidelium Speaker/Sablon Pantela Reserva 2020 Lan/Ghent JSSG360 Cat 6/AQ Earth & Pegasus/Aurelis Deuland 75ohm

ISOLATION: Stillpoints/Symposium/IsoAcoustics/Herbie's/PS Audio Powerbase

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4 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

It depends on what you mean by local files. If you mean a computer connected to a DAC and the files are stored on that computer, then you may or may not not find a difference from the EtherREGEN.

 

If the files are on a NAS or another computer connected via a LAN to the "endpoint" connected to the DAC then it is highly likely to make a large impact on sound.

 

I n the first case even though the data is not traveling over the network, if you still have an Ethernet cable connected to the computer you can still have leakage current over the cable, and phase noise coming in on other packets going into the computer. So the EtherREGEN may still make a difference.

 

John S.

My personal experience is clear at this point;  If when I play local files from my Melco to the DAC (USB connection), I disconnect the cable that communicates in Router with Aqvox Switch, the sound improvement is instantaneous.  Therefore, if EtherRegen is able to isolate the noise that comes from the Router, “almost” as much as removing the cable, it has to improve the sound.  We must also expect that the internal noise of the EtherRegen, is lower than any other Switch, new improvement in sound.

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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