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EtherREGEN: The long development and active launch discussion thread.

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Would it make sense to use the B side for input, optical for an opticalRendu and the remaining A side Ethernet for other devices nearby? Does this provide low phase noise performance for the optical SFP?


1. Sonore ultraRendu - Uptone ISO Regen - Mola Mola Makua - Apollon NC800 SL PRO - Thiel CS3.7
2. Burson Conductor V2+ - Audeze LCD-XC - Calyx Femti - Monitor Audio PL100
3. Hidizs S8 - Audeze LCDi3

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Without technical knowledge I have tried to find an answer in the question if USB or Ethernet connection is the best way to go SQ wise. I understand that it’s a very complex question with a lot of parameters to consider. Maby Etherregen will be a new parameter in that debate.

 

I have a dac that can do both connections. Lately I have tested some software optimisations that really makes a difference in USB connection. But right or wrong my hope is that Ethernet in the future would be the preferred way to go.

 

I don’t want to take this thread in the wrong direction. Maby someone can point me to a good source in the matter?

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I am also quite curious about the results using my OPPO 205. I recently bought an oM and I was quite surprise with the improvements I got when connected to my uR that feeds the 205 USB input. However the SQ delta I got using Ethernet was far less than I was expecting. And this with the  same files. So let’s wait for the eR... cheers Jorge


AMP: Electrocompaniet ECI-6D; DAC: Oppo 205 (modded); ECI-6D

Streamer/endpoint: Zen MKIII/ultraRendu; Speakers: Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature; Cables: Speakers (Acoustic Revive) + RCA (au24sx) + RJ45 (Vodka Audioquest) + USB (Diamond Audioquest) + Power (Pangea's + Actinote's) + iR&oM (Neotech 16AWG OCC Silver + DC 4); Filters/reclockers: Jensen VRD- iFF + Pink Faun Isolator + Acoustic Revive RGC-24 + HMS “The Perfect Match” + isoRegen; Switch: etherRegen + opticalModule; Cisco 2960; LPS: Sboosters MKI & MKII (+ ultra) + HDplex 200 + LPS 1.2

 

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1 hour ago, PYP said:

 

That is my setup:  the DAC is a Roon endpoint/DAC/preamp, so the path is in-wall cat 5e to EtherREGEN to DAC.  I'll let you know how that works out (hopefully in early November, if I can click fast enough on October 8).  :) 


My situation as well, excited to get an etherRegen, I’ll be trying to get in the first wave, but my work makes tight timing difficult. This order window looks to be tight. Fortunately, there is still music to listen to if I end waiting a month.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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2 hours ago, PYP said:

 

That is my setup:  the DAC is a Roon endpoint/DAC/preamp, so the path is in-wall cat 5e to EtherREGEN to DAC.  I'll let you know how that works out (hopefully in early November, if I can click fast enough on October 8).  :) 

 

Yeah, that's good. I'd like to hear your impressions. I'll be sure to give mine. 

 

My Linn KDS/3 isn't a Roon endpoint, so I have to go from a SonicTransporter, into my router, and then into the Linn ]. So, the etherREGEN should sit between my router and my Linn. I guess it's the same difference between going from the wall straight yo your DAC, because if the etherREGEN works like it's supposed to to, it will cure any ills that comes before your DAC/Streamer, yeah?

 

Yeah. :)


SonicTransporter i5 -> Linn KDS/3 -> M3a-800S -> EgglestonWorks Andra II

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Every time I ask about modems and routers I get the same answer:  Anything over the Ethernet is perfect, which modem and/or router, and/or combo unit I purchase won't (CAN'T) affect the sound quality coming out of my ($5000) streamer/DAC.  (And, an LPS for my modem and router shouldn't have any effect on sound quality either...)  And I guess Alex's thoughts about the Cisco switch he has been recommending, until the EtherREGEN is released, is just, what?, idiocy also?

 

People who visit here care so I'll be glad to hear about your experiences.  I just changed internet providers (fiber not available at my house), and I plan on purchasing a plain modem and (if I can find one) a stand-alone router.  From the router (sans Wi-Fi), I plan to go one direction to my (hardwired) desktop, wireless access point, and television (maybe), and the other direction to the EtherREGEN (A-side) and my Streamer (from the B-side). 

Is trying to keep as many things out of the chain between my modem and Streamer sensible/important/imperative, or does it really just not matter. 

Is looking for a "better" quality modem and router just folly? 

In forty years in the high-end audio hobby I've yet to find something that doesn't matter - maybe this is a first?

I think I understand:

An all-in-one modem/router will almost never sound as good as a good modem connected to a good router (which will then send information from TIDAL, to my Streamer).

I can't run my Ethernet cable from my modem directly to the EtherREGEN and on to my Streamer, I must have a router in-between.

Supposedly, powering my modem and router with a LPS rather than wall-warts is beneficial to sound quality???

If I can find a stand-alone router without Wi-Fi built in, I can place a WAP elsewhere, centrally located, in my house.

Other than logistics, if I must have a router before my EtherREGEN, and the router almost always has four outputs, in many cases will there be no reason to have to use the additional A-side outputs provided on the EtherREGEN?

 

For use with Comcast/Charter coax service, does anyone recommend a particular stand-alone modem and stand-alone router?  Or, will the EtherREGEN cover all sins, I should just buy any darn thing, don't worry about it?  I just don't understand why the EtherREGEN will make a difference, an LPS for the router and modem makes a difference, but what modem and router I purchase doesn't make a difference.  I'm sorry I'm old and not network savvy, but I am enthusiastic about this hobby.

 

One last question:

If I buy a separate modem and router, and the signal for my Streamer has to first pass through the router, should keeping the Wi-Fi electronics out of the router be beneficial?  Or, should I just buy a decent modem, buy a (better or best) router with Wi-Fi, and then forget about it?

 


Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and vibration isolation kits, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN (soon), Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Mr. Speakers Ether2 headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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21 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

Every time I ask about modems and routers I get the same answer:  Anything over the Ethernet is perfect, which modem and/or router, and/or combo unit I purchase won't (CAN'T) affect the sound quality coming out of my ($5000) streamer/DAC.  (And, an LPS for my modem and router shouldn't have any effect on sound quality either...)  And I guess Alex's thoughts about the Cisco switch he has been recommending, until the EtherREGEN is released, is just, what?, idiocy also?

 

People who visit here care so I'll be glad to hear about your experiences.  I just changed internet providers (fiber not available at my house), and I plan on purchasing a plain modem and (if I can find one) a stand-alone router.  From the router (sans Wi-Fi), I plan to go one direction to my (hardwired) desktop, wireless access point, and television (maybe), and the other direction to the EtherREGEN (A-side) and my Streamer (from the B-side). 

Is trying to keep as many things out of the chain between my modem and Streamer sensible/important/imperative, or does it really just not matter. 

Is looking for a "better" quality modem and router just folly? 

In forty years in the high-end audio hobby I've yet to find something that doesn't matter - maybe this is a first?

I think I understand:

An all-in-one modem/router will almost never sound as good as a good modem connected to a good router (which will then send information from TIDAL, to my Streamer).

I can't run my Ethernet cable from my modem directly to the EtherREGEN and on to my Streamer, I must have a router in-between.

Supposedly, powering my modem and router with a LPS rather than wall-warts is beneficial to sound quality???

If I can find a stand-alone router without Wi-Fi built in, I can place a WAP elsewhere, centrally located, in my house.

Other than logistics, if I must have a router before my EtherREGEN, and the router almost always has four outputs, in many cases will there be no reason to have to use the additional A-side outputs provided on the EtherREGEN?

 

For use with Comcast/Charter coax service, does anyone recommend a particular stand-alone modem and stand-alone router?  Or, will the EtherREGEN cover all sins, I should just buy any darn thing, don't worry about it?  I just don't understand why the EtherREGEN will make a difference, an LPS for the router and modem makes a difference, but what modem and router I purchase doesn't make a difference.  I'm sorry I'm old and not network savvy, but I am enthusiastic about this hobby.

 

One last question:

If I buy a separate modem and router, and the signal for my Streamer has to first pass through the router, should keeping the Wi-Fi electronics out of the router be beneficial?  Or, should I just buy a decent modem, buy a (better or best) router with Wi-Fi, and then forget about it?

 


For a stand-alone modem, I have previously used this modem when I had Comcast Xfinity ISP service:

 

https://www.amazon.com/ARRIS-SURFboard-SB6141-DOCSIS-Cable/dp/B00AJHDZSI

 

You can then connect it to the router (and WiFi hub) of your choice. In normal home networks, it is required that you have a router which assigns local IP addresses to your devices. I have been using Google WiFi mesh units as router and WiFi hub and remote access points but there are tons of similar devices from Ubiquiti, TP Links, etc.

 

I can’t imagine anything upstream of the EtherREGEN making much difference. For streaming service think about all of the network equipment the data flows through before arriving at your house.


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Goldpoint passive preamp > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala

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1 hour ago, rickca said:

Are there snakes and alligators in the EtherREGEN moat? 

 

I was hoping that the illustration for the website would at least include something that looked like a moat (with or without inhabitants).  Thought it would be fun, with all the hight tech, to draw in a moat and see what folks thought.  


Roon / Mola Mola Tambaqui / Kubala-Sosna XLR / Mola Mola Kaluga / KS biwire / B&W 803 D3

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1 hour ago, ericuco said:

I can’t imagine anything upstream of the EtherREGEN making much difference. For streaming service think about all of the network equipment the data flows through before arriving at your house.

 

But here you're just talking about streaming service, right? Because you wrote "anything upstream," so if I'm using the Comcast Router/Modem combo, placing the EtherREGEN between my router and my streamer/DAC should be what it's all about right? That should be where the sonic benefits happen, because you're cleaning up everything upstream from the DAC, yes? 


SonicTransporter i5 -> Linn KDS/3 -> M3a-800S -> EgglestonWorks Andra II

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11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The EtherREGEN was designed so it works very well going "backwards", the B side port connected to a switch and the SFP optical connection to a renderer with an optical input such as the opticalRendu. All the isolation works identically in both directions.

 

John S.

 

I thought OR only works with 1 Gbit? Or OR requires 1Gbit transceiver, the actual network speed does not matter?

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7 minutes ago, Adyc said:

I thought OR only works with 1 Gbit? Or OR requires 1Gbit transceiver, the actual network speed does not matter?

 

Correct. And the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN is for Gigabit modules, same as the opticalRendu.

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@Bernstein 9AM PST will that not be 18.00 in CET the same day?

 

https://time.is/sv/CET


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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1 hour ago, ericuco said:

The EtherREGEN should most likely be placed just before your streamer/DAC regardless of how you are playing music (streaming, local files,, etc.) so data gets scrubbed by the EtherREGEN before hitting your streamer/DAC.

 

As a more home network note, your modem is the first piece of equipment connected from the outside line (probably coax cable), then the router. If you are using the box provided by your ISP, then the modem and router may be in same box. From your router, then you can do as you wish for the most part - Ethernet connection to your EtherREGEN, streamer, switches - the combinations are endless.

 

Well stated! Can I borrow you to write the EtherREGEN User's Guide for us? 9_9

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3 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

The EtherREGEN should most likely be placed just before your streamer/DAC regardless of how you are playing music (streaming, local files,, etc.) so data gets scrubbed by the EtherREGEN before hitting your streamer/DAC.

 

As a more home network note, your modem is the first piece of equipment connected from the outside line (probably coax cable), then the router. If you are using the box provided by your ISP, then the modem and router may be in same box. From your router, then you can do as you wish for the most part - Ethernet connection to your EtherREGEN, streamer, switches - the combinations are endless.,,

 

So, everything else in my dedicated Streaming system matters, quality of Streamer/DAC, Headphone Amp, Headphones...  As well as "better" analog and digital interconnects, power cords, lack of wall warts (usually), power conditioners, vibration isolation, etc...

 

I've been hearing this for two years now (and now it is time to replace my cheap all-in-one Comcast supplied modem/router); any Modem and any Router will work as well as any other, for high-end audio, as long as each passes a signal.  [It is agreed, having a router separate from one's modem seems to be better, but apparently not from a sound-quality standpoint.]  I was about to replace the old 60' long coax line feeding my modem from the exterior cable box (under the house, easy to get to in 3' to 4' crawl space) - also a waste of time, yes?

 

Coming from a Linn Sondek Turntable background (purchased in 1978, in an era where whatever was at the "front end" was all-important), it just seems a bit counter-intuitive to me that everything (EVERYTHING) else matters, save for one's modem and router

 

(Not directed at ericuco!)

So, tell me one last time and I'll quit asking:

The EtherREGEN will "scrub" the signal headed to the Streamer in my headphone setup; and, even when powered by wall warts, there is nothing a cheap modem or cheap Wi-Fi router can do to even marginally degrade it before it get there.  Correct?

 

 

 

A bit of humour, or at least amusement:  Note in the David vs Goliath photo below, the little Schiit stack on the left.  For 1/40 the price, it actually sounds really good!

Samson 1 - Best, cropped, smaller 3.jpg


Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and vibration isolation kits, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN (soon), Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Mr. Speakers Ether2 headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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1 hour ago, DelsFan said:

 

So, everything else in my dedicated Streaming system matters, quality of Streamer/DAC, Headphone Amp, Headphones...  As well as "better" analog and digital interconnects, power cords, lack of wall warts (usually), power conditioners, vibration isolation, etc...

 

I've been hearing this for two years now (and now it is time to replace my cheap all-in-one Comcast supplied modem/router); any Modem and any Router will work as well as any other, for high-end audio, as long as each passes a signal.  [It is agreed, having a router separate from one's modem seems to be better, but apparently not from a sound-quality standpoint.]  I was about to replace the old 60' long coax line feeding my modem from the exterior cable box (under the house, easy to get to in 3' to 4' crawl space) - also a waste of time, yes?

 

Coming from a Linn Sondek Turntable background (purchased in 1978, in an era where whatever was at the "front end" was all-important), it just seems a bit counter-intuitive to me that everything (EVERYTHING) else matters, save for one's modem and router

 

(Not directed at ericuco!)

So, tell me one last time and I'll quit asking:

The EtherREGEN will "scrub" the signal headed to the Streamer in my headphone setup; and, even when powered by wall warts, there is nothing a cheap modem or cheap Wi-Fi router can do to even marginally degrade it before it get there.  Correct?

 

 

 

A bit of humour, or at least amusement:  Note in the David vs Goliath photo below, the little Schiit stack on the left.  For 1/40 the price, it actually sounds really good!

Samson 1 - Best, cropped, smaller 3.jpg

 

This is starting to move off topic here so I will conclude with "it all depends". All of this is highly system specific. Seeing a photo of your setup helps in that it means you are probably plugging all of your equipment into a single electrical circuit so using LPS MIGHT help cut down any electrical noise on the circuit. Also, you have carpet (vs hardwood) which can affect things. Cables sitting on carpet can POTENTIALLY pick up static electricity.

 

It also depends if you are streaming music from the Internet vs playing local files. With local files, you are not running anything through your modem and router. If you are streaming then PERHAPS upgrading modem and router MIGHT help but as I mentioned earlier, a streaming file has gone through probably hundreds of pieces of network gear before it arrives at your house so ...

 

Also, some people here can tell the difference when they swap out what is seemly the most benign item but report hearing significant improvements. I have experienced that some changes help and others don't, quite unexpectedly at times. For instance, the Cisco switch that was being promoted as improving sound actually sounded worse in my system which is predominantly optical network.

 

The promise of the EtherREGEN is to "scrub" the line. Obviously the less junk it needs to scrub, PROBABLY the better but again, that is for you to determine. That is why the Uptone and Sonore guys leave it to the end user to access the results and why they provide return policies.


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Goldpoint passive preamp > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala

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