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EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]


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56 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

No, the heatsinks do not touch the case. Their purpose is to smooth out the temperature of certain devices. Some devices are significantly hotter than the surrounding board (which means poor heat transfer from device to board), the heatsink acts as another path for heat to get out of those devices, cooling them off significantly.

 

The case stays the same temperature since the total heat dissipation stays the same. There is no easy/inexpensive way to get heat directly to the case without going through air. Almost all of the board area is generating heat, there is no one large chip that is radically dissipating the most heat, it is pretty uniformly distributed across the board. The only problem is that some of the devices do not couple well to the ground plane on the board so need some help getting their heat into the surrounding area.

 

Trying to do direct to case would mean filling the entire case (ie potting) with thermal compound. This CAN be done (we looked into it!) but is very expensive and doesn't help all that much.  With the heatsinks all the devices are below a reasonable temperature for very long life. Potting would drop the temperature by a few degrees, but it wouldn't significantly affect longevity.

 

Believe me we have been looking into this very carefully, what we have decided on is what we feel the best solution for long life and low extra cost.

 

John S.


Thanks a lot! Appreciation for the small case and amount of integration :) 

How hot will it get (In normal environment conditions e.g. 22C)? Thinking about putting it in a bigger metal box with little ventilation. 

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3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

The case temp will sit at a steady 48-52C, depending upon ambient room temperature. This will seem very warm to hot, depending upon individual hands.

As John mentioned, we spent a lot of time measuring heat—of the parts, of the PCB, of the air inside the case, and of the case itself. I even had my local machinist mill ten 2mm x 80mm slots into the top half of the extrusion—and then ran measuments with that (with my expensive FLIR thermal camera). The slots did not change things much so we are not going to have them.

 

All parts inside the unit will be operating at less than half the temps they are rated for, so we are confident about long-term reliability.

The heat of the case—which acts as an efficient heat sink for the whole board—will only be a user perception issue. 

:D

Thanks! I won’t put it in the box due to less ventilation. I like the form factor ;) and it is so small, that it won’t bother anyone. 

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Great news Alex!  And unlike the fact that this is happening on the very same day as MicroSoft patch Tuesday (batten down the hatches boys and girls), we'll all be looking forward to getting in line for the EtherREGEN.

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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Hmm, that’d be 2am here ...

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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Awesome news! Thank you Alex. I have a question and apologize in advance if it's been already answered somewhere deep in the 1,388 other posts. I intend to power mine via one port of my JS-2 power supply. What cable will I need and how do I order it?

I look forward to this exciting product!

Tom

Tidal Audio Agoria Loudspeakers; VAC Master preamp; Merrill Audio Christine preamp, Merrill Audio Jens & VAC Renaissance Phono Preamps;   Bricasti M28 & Merrill Audio Element 118 Monoblock Amplifiers; Sonore Signature RenduSE Optical network player; Bricasti M12 Source Controller/ DAC; Spiral Groove SG-2 TT with Centroid Arm & Transfiguration Proteus Diamond Cartridge; Ampex ATR-102 Reel-Reel with Merrill Audio Master tape head preamplifier; Ansuz signal and power cabling and power distribution; Symposium Isis racks 

INDUSTRY AFFILIATION: Dealer- XtremeFidelity.net (VAC,  Bricasti, Merrill Audio,  Sonore, Ansuz, Synergistic Research & others)

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36 minutes ago, Afveep said:

I intend to power mine via one port of my JS-2 power supply. What cable will I need and how do I order it?

Hi Tom:

The DC input jack of the EtherREGEN--which can run of +DC in the range anywhere from 7~12V--is a 5.5mm x 2.1mm size.

The JS-2's output jacks are 5.5mm x 2.5m size, so you will need a cable with 2.5mm plug hole one end and 2.1mm plug hole at the other.

 

While not listed on our web site, we sell separately the grey 1.5 meter (5-foot) Oyaide/Belden shielded star-quad cable--same as what everything receives one or two of with their JS-2--for $75.  We stock it with 2.5mm or 2.1mm device-end plug. Just contact me directly if you want one. 

Alternately, I very much enjoy the sophisticated Gotham GAC4 cable made up as a DC cable with JSSG (John Swenson Shielding Guidelines), and it is produced for resale at a very fair price by Ghent Audio in China. Might take a few weeks to receive. Be sure to specify the plug end sizes correctly as well as the length you desire.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Afveep said:

Awesome news! Thank you Alex. I have a question and apologize in advance if it's been already answered somewhere deep in the 1,388 other posts. I intend to power mine via one port of my JS-2 power supply. What cable will I need and how do I order it?

I look forward to this exciting product!

Tom

Are you going to be powering anything else from the other output of the JS-2? By doing so you may wind up bypassing the isolation of the EtherREGEN. The grounds of the two outputs on the JS-2 are the same, thus if you power the EtherREGEN and something downstream (streamer, DAC, DDC etc) from the same JS-2 you are shorting the isolation (both sides having the same ground).

 

John S.

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2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Are you going to be powering anything else from the other output of the JS-2? By doing so you may wind up bypassing the isolation of the EtherREGEN. The grounds of the two outputs on the JS-2 are the same, thus if you power the EtherREGEN and something downstream (streamer, DAC, DDC etc) from the same JS-2 you are shorting the isolation (both sides having the same ground).

 

John S.

Thanks Alex and John. Uhhh, yes. The first output of the JS-2 powers my Synology NAS. I'm guessing that you're going to say "Nooooooooo"! What do you recommend? Is there some way to isolate the grounds or will I need to give up on the idea of using the JS-2 for the EtherREGEN?

Tom

Tidal Audio Agoria Loudspeakers; VAC Master preamp; Merrill Audio Christine preamp, Merrill Audio Jens & VAC Renaissance Phono Preamps;   Bricasti M28 & Merrill Audio Element 118 Monoblock Amplifiers; Sonore Signature RenduSE Optical network player; Bricasti M12 Source Controller/ DAC; Spiral Groove SG-2 TT with Centroid Arm & Transfiguration Proteus Diamond Cartridge; Ampex ATR-102 Reel-Reel with Merrill Audio Master tape head preamplifier; Ansuz signal and power cabling and power distribution; Symposium Isis racks 

INDUSTRY AFFILIATION: Dealer- XtremeFidelity.net (VAC,  Bricasti, Merrill Audio,  Sonore, Ansuz, Synergistic Research & others)

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7 minutes ago, Afveep said:

Thanks Alex and John. Uhhh, yes. The first output of the JS-2 powers my Synology NAS. I'm guessing that you're going to say "Nooooooooo"! What do you recommend? Is there some way to isolate the grounds or will I need to give up on the idea of using the JS-2 for the EtherREGEN?

Well I promise it won't sound bad. 9_9

But you can just use the SMPS brick we ship with the EtherREGEN.  The voltage regulation and differential isolation of the EtherREGEN is so good that, as mentioned before, it is going to be hard to hear much difference with fancy power supplies with this switch.  Maybe some with bat-ears will, but for me and John, EtherREGEN (with the SMPS) is "whoa!" obvious, and using a fancy LPS with it is like "maybe?", "not sure", "possibly nothing." YMMV. B|

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4 hours ago, Afveep said:

Thanks Alex and John. Uhhh, yes. The first output of the JS-2 powers my Synology NAS. I'm guessing that you're going to say "Nooooooooo"! What do you recommend? Is there some way to isolate the grounds or will I need to give up on the idea of using the JS-2 for the EtherREGEN?

Tom

 

Perhaps I am thinking wrong here correct me @Superdad @JohnSwenson if that is so.

 

If you use a two rail or more PSU that have a common ground and you were to supply both the ER and a endpoint after the ER that would loose the point of the isolation but if you use a PSU to supply perhaps a router, NAS and the ER the common ground would not mean so much as the isolation is intact to the endpoint (the endpoint would need a seperate PSU).

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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27 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Perhaps I am thinking wrong here correct me @Superdad @JohnSwenson if that is so.

 

If you use a two rail or more PSU that have a common ground and you were to supply both the ER and a endpoint after the ER that would loose the point of the isolation but if you use a PSU to supply perhaps a router, NAS and the ER the common ground would not mean so much as the isolation is intact to the endpoint (the endpoint would need a seperate PSU).

That is correct.

 

The power supply connected to the EtherREGEN directly powers the A side, but the B side is fed by a very special isolating converter. Since in most cases the B side is what will be feeding the endpoint, powering the endpoint with a supply that has the same ground as the what is feeding the EtherREGEN will bypass the isolation included in the EtherREGEN.

 

You have to be a little careful about what the term "same ground" means. It means there is a very low resistance between the negatives of both supplies. This doesn't necessarily occur even if both supplies have a ground pin. If both supplies connect the ground pin of the AC mains plug to the negative of the DC out, then that will be a "same ground". But there are a large number of supplies that even though they have the third pin, it is not connected to the negative of the DC output, in which case it would not be bypassing the isolation.

 

Note that the external clock connection is the only connection that actually makes a good ground connection. If using a normal Ethernet cable to an end point there is no good ground connection, but there can be a tenuous leakage current path through the Ethernet Cable. So if you do have a common ground through the power supplies it will most likely be a fairly small effect on sound quality. So if you just can't separate them, don't worry too much about it. If you can keep the grounds separated, go ahead and do it.

 

John S.

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@JohnSwenson what is your recomendation regarding the LAN cable after the etherREGEN just use a regular CAT6 UTP or use some sheilded 6A,7,8 (sheild not connected in the plugs and some sort of the JSSG)?

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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7 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

I'll be using a clock connected to both the Etherregen and my endpoint. Will that have an impact here John? 

Scratch that. My clock is 50 ohm and Etherregen is 75 ohm so not compatible. That is a shame because the clock aspect was what made me choose this option. I've no doubt it will still do an excellent job though. @JohnSwenson @Superdad any reason you opted for 75 ohm specifically?

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8 minutes ago, Cable Monkey said:

Scratch that. My clock is 50 ohm and Etherregen is 75 ohm so not compatible. That is a shame because the clock aspect was what made me choose this option. I've no doubt it will still do an excellent job though. @JohnSwenson @Superdad any reason you opted for 75 ohm specifically?

 

You can order the ER with 50 ohm connector.

 

Alex will keep on hand a few units to which the connector isn't soldered. 

He'll perform the soldering  job himself. 

 

As for the reason the default BNC is 75 ohm, you can search this thread for answers. It's all spelled out (as his commitment to offer 50 ohm on a case basis).

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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@Cable Monkey I think you have to order a ER with 50ohm BNC directly from Uptone as I suppose all of the twenty Audiostore gets from the first run is the regulare 75ohm. Dont recall if Alex has written if there will be any 50ohm versions made in the first batch as the demand for the regular one will be high :)

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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2 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

Great news. However I am on the first run through the UK supplier so what would be the process of ensuring I get the right impedance? 

 

I can't speak on behalf of Alex, of course,  but I don't see any reason why he couldn't dispatch one 50ohm unit to the UK.

I suggest you send him an email. He's very good at replying.

 

 

 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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6 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

Great news. However I am on the first run through the UK supplier so what would be the process of ensuring I get the right impedance? 

 

Please let Martin at AudioStore/VortexBox UK know that you would like a unit with 50ohm BNC (and 50ohm termination resistor). Before shipment he will let me how many he needs that way.

 

Of the first run’s 245 boards, 23 are being built as 50ohm.  18 of those 23 are going to our Hong Kong dealer AfterDark. That leaves us with 5–available for AudioStore or direct order.  I hope there won’t be too many people insisting on 50 ohm.  It is going to be first-come/first-serve on these. AudioStore will have first option for them.  Then, when we I am going through the direct orders, we will go in order number for any other 50 ohm requests—and I guess I’ll have to contact anyone beyond the point of those 5 available to give the option to take a 75ohm or to wait for a unit from the second run. (No way will we have time or be willing to risk damage to the board by typing to unsolder the 75ohm jacks to replace with 50ohm.)

 

Guess I forgot to mention how to make the request—on a direct-sale order with us: 

At the lower-left of the “YourCart” checkout page there will be a Special Instructions box.  Just type “50ohm” in that.

But for the above explained reasons, I caution against doing so unless you really do have a external clock you intend to use and that it has only 50ohm output available.

 

As was mentioned, we took an informal poll early on—and also I surveyed the impedance of all the popular, commercially available 10MHz reference clocks—and it was determined that 75 ohm would suit the vast majority. I guess we’ll see how that all shakes out. :ph34r:

 

Frankly, it is not yet known how much—if any, given long clock cables—an external reference will be of sonic benefit.

As you all can see from what we have explained and the annotated photo I posted last night, no other switch is anything at all like EtherREGEN. With other switches improving the clock is all they got, so it is important for those.

 

Yet we are doing so many other extremely important tricks, the greatest of which is the Active Differential Isolation Moat (“ADIM”, our first-ever marketing acronym! x-D) and equally important differential flip-flop reclocking. Thus we are confident that right out of the box, with the stock SMPS and the already quite excellent Crystek 575 oscillator, performance will exceed expectations.

[20 hours of clock warm-up/stabilization/“burn-in” does seem to benefit SQ; This was experienced by myself, John, and all our beta-testers.]

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