EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, Matias said:

What are your 3 good reasons not to be a $50-savings bundle?

 

1) I don't want people to think that an UltraCap supply is necessary to get fantastic performance from an EtherREGEN. It is not like the ISO REGEN or other products which clearly benefit from a great power supply.

2) Keeping it simple for users. Studies show that given too many choices or even the hint of there being an "upgraded version" (as in, making them think the more expensive bundle is what  they need), people will often choose to postpone purchase.  (The only way for us to offer a bundle is to make power supply a drop-down ordering choice; ISO REGEN and the questions we get has proven the point I am making here.)

3) Margin. With the ISO REGEN/UltraCap bundle I think of it as giving up some profit dollars on the ISO REGEN. Easier to do that. The UltraCap LPS-1.2 has about the same laughably narrow margin (versus what other companies run on) as the EtherREGEN will.

[tims]

22 hours ago, Superdad said:

File the above as an inside peek into John's expansive mind.   But please let's not let the conversation veer into distributed clock engineering possibilities in this thread.

 

I actually have a lot to report on about EtherREGEN--facts, usage experience, progress details, final price, etc.  But I'm really hungry, it's been a long Monday, and tomorrow morning my assistant returns from vacation and we have a half-dozen JS-2s to pack and ship as well as other tasks to keep moving with.  So the update will have to wait until at least Wednesday.

I will say that the beta-test units will be going our to the select few (very few) on Thursday--Friday at the latest.

 

Hi Alex

 

Will the beta testers be allowed to give public reviews of the ER or will they only report back to you and John?

[McNulty]

@Superdad: could you please share if during your tests the standard and upgraded power supply for your ER were connected to the same power distributor as the power cables of your other components, such as the DAC and the power amp?

 

The reason I ask is that even if the quality of the power supply would not influence the performance of the ER, the standard SMPS brick might 'contaminate' the power for other components if connected to the same power distributor.  

[Bernstein]

2 minutes ago, McNulty said:

@Superdad: could you please share if during your tests the standard and upgraded power supply for your ER were connected to the same power distributor as the power cables of your other components, such as the DAC and the power amp?

 

The reason I ask is that even if the quality of the power supply would not influence the performance of the ER, the standard SMPS brick might 'contaminate' the power for other components if connected to the same power distributor.  

 

@Superdad This tells (almost) everything  

 

[BigAlMc]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

a) Does an upgraded power supply improve the EtherREGEN's performance over the UpTone-branded 7.5V/36W SMPS brick that will be shipped with every unit?

b) Does running optical fiber into the 'A'-side port as the feed to EtherREGEN sound any better than running into one of the 'A'-side Gigabit RJ45 ports?

 

The short answer to both the above is NO.

 

Trying to tell this crowd a better PSU doesn't make a difference! Yeah good luck with that 😜

 

More seriously, great post Alex. Looking forward this product getting out there.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Bernstein said:

 

@Superdad This tells (almost) everything  

 

Hey, I recognize the voice of the man in the video.  When was this done?

[Superdad]

19 hours ago, tims said:

Will the beta testers be allowed to give public reviews of the ER or will they only report back to you and John?

The beta-test cycle is strictly about checking to be sure there are no weird network corner cases where usage might require us to make some last change to the programming of the switch chip. I will be speaking directly with the beta testers about this, and any such information would not really be relevant to the public (unless there is some issue that will remain in the final product which people would need to be aware of).

 

As far as our stance on beta-users' posting their subjective impressions of EtherREGEN in their systems, that's where my thinking is a bit split.  I'm disinclined to permit that. Not because we have anything to hide or any lack of confidence in the performance of the product. But because:

a) I do not want a couple of users' impressions (even if they rave positively) to be the basis upon which folks decide if they want to try the EtherREGEN (sold with 30-day money-back guarantee) in their own system;

b) I don't want those users to be peppered with a whole bunch of questions, requests, speculations before the launch. (And this forum is already enough of a time distraction to me during these critical busy weeks; I don't want to be drawn towards user test/experience discussions just yet.)

c) It will be much more fun, and frankly more informative, to have a couple hundred people receive their EtherREGENs and report about what they hear and how the they use them--all at once in a new "Listening Impressions/Usage" thread.

 

13 hours ago, McNulty said:

Could you please share if during your tests the standard and upgraded power supply for your ER were connected to the same power distributor as the power cables of your other components, such as the DAC and the power amp?

 

The reason I ask is that even if the quality of the power supply would not influence the performance of the ER, the standard SMPS brick might 'contaminate' the power for other components if connected to the same power distributor.  

 

Fair question.  I happen to plug the UpTone-branded 36W SMPS directly in the wall.  My DAC is plugged into a 250VA floating-secondary 1:1 isolation transformer (a Hovland VoltAire: 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/29662-discussion-of-ac-mains-isolation-transformers/?do=findComment&comment=594798).

 

 

13 hours ago, Bernstein said:

 

@Superdad This tells (almost) everything 

 

That video I made with the Entech mains noise tester and the Mean Well SMPS is interesting. And I repeated the test this morning with our branded 36W internally ground-shunted brick and got the same result of the SMPS seeming to quiet the line just as much as the Mean Well did.

Fact is, the mains in most people's homes is far noisier than the extremely low-level, extremely high frequency spread-spectrum switching noise that a modern (standards-compliant) SMPS kicks into the wall.  The real evil of an SMPS (aside from its DC output noise being not ultra-low) is the copious amount of common-mode  AC leakage it transfers onto its DC output. John has written extensively about this in other threads, so I won't recite the details here.  But the whole architecture of the EtherREGEN is such that it not only blocks the path of leakage from the supply powering it, it blocks leakage coming in via Ethernet cables from computers/routers/etc. that have switch-mode supplies.

 

That said, we understand that some people are "allergic" to having any SMPS plugged into their house--or at least anywhere within 20 meters of their audio system.   We accept that, even if I can't hear it.

 

10 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Trying to tell this crowd a better PSU doesn't make a difference! Yeah good luck with that 😜

 

 

I know. Pretty stupid of me--especially since we ourselves produce a compatible, high-performance LPS in a case that perfectly matches the EtherREGEN! 

 

It will be perfectly okay with me if some users find that--in their own systems--powering the EtherREGEN with a nice LPS makes a difference for them. 

I was simply being honest about my assessment.  It is not as if I don't hear the benefit of a great PS (and even of a good DC cable) everyplace else in my system.

 

10 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hey, I recognize the voice of the man in the video.  When was this done?

September 2018.

[simon_pepper]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

As far as our stance on beta-users' posting their subjective impressions of EtherREGEN in their systems, that's where my thinking is a bit split.  I'm disinclined to permit that. Not because we have anything to hide or any lack of confidence in the performance of the product. But because:

a) I do not want a couple of users' impressions (even if they rave positively) to be the basis upon which folks decide if they want to try the EtherREGEN (sold with 30-day money-back guarantee) in their own system;

 

Yes, you should run Product Beta testing in a private invitational only group, and may be not even on audiophilestyle.com, away from the public market forums.

You want feedback and issue raised out of sight of the market, not you are hiding issues, but a Beta testing is still part of the product development process, and the feedback from initial field trials are for you, to understand operations, resolve any found issues and finesse the product prior to market launch & introduction.

 

I have used ‘customer feedback sessions’ at the end of a Sprint cycle to gain input for future Springs, with ‘Show and Tell’ sessions and the customers were part of an invited ‘Customer Council’.

 

You could run a private Slack channel or Google Hangout chat or even a Skype Group chat to solicit the feedback from your testers, so everyone seeing the comments from the group.

Anyway good luck with this exciting phase of Product development as you prepare for launch.

Simon

[Adyc]

15 hours ago, Bernstein said:

 

@Superdad This tells (almost) everything  

 

 

Intersting. Is Mean Well SMPS a power conditioner? I can understand the Mean Well SMPS is a well designed power supply and won’t introduces noises. But the video actually seems to imply that it actually reduces noises! If this is true, it would be the cheapest power conditioner in the planet.

[cool_chris]

Alex and John

I am impressed by amount of work you did to make the ER reality and working as You wanted.

Also thank you for sharing your early general SQ benefit against cisco that is current swich for many of us.

I know it is early to ask for this but some of us are in 1G and few are in 10G networks.

Do you think it is possible to build in near future the 1G to 1G or 10G / 10G across the moat ?

 

This could be probably done easier with 1G to 1G bacause the A side is already 1G

Please be so kind to let us know if this could be done In the future?

I am sure there are many who would love to pay if 1G is available.

[Bernstein]

@Superdad

I want to operate the ER in a closed cabinet. Maybe a little sloth will provide air. How hot will it get? What is the temperature range? My (totally standard, stupid) switch today is running very low in temperature, but with all the IC in your unit I think it will produce a little more heat. 

[Superdad]

What a day...   BETA-TEST UNITS HAVE SHIPPED!!  

Here's a pic of a few of them.

[littledu]

16 hours ago, Superdad said:

What a day...   BETA-TEST UNITS HAVE SHIPPED!!  

Here's a pic of a few of them.

Just looking at the pics of the Beta units is making my system sound better! 😁

[Trabb]

 

Just realized what lesson you both have given us !

 

Do not give up your plans.

Stand for them in difficulty and for a long time.

It’s good to be patient. It is good to have strong will.

Do not get bored and nervous reading and answering hundreds of emails, some of them from disappointed people.

It is not a shame to have technical problems or problems with suppliers.

 It is not a shame to postpone launching date.

 

Keep my fingers crossed.

Have a good day Superdad and John !

[Superdad]

11 hours ago, Trabb said:

Do not give up your plans.

Stand for them in difficulty and for a long time.

It’s good to be patient. It is good to have strong will.

Do not get bored and nervous reading and answering hundreds of emails, some of them from disappointed people.

It is not a shame to have technical problems or problems with suppliers.

It is not a shame to postpone launching date.

 

Wow! Many thanks for those supportive and encouraging words. I may print them out and post by my desk. 

[Puma Cat]

On 9/18/2019 at 2:42 PM, simon_pepper said:

 

Yes, you should run Product Beta testing in a private invitational only group, and may be not even on audiophilestyle.com, away from the public market forums.

You want feedback and issue raised out of sight of the market, not you are hiding issues, but a Beta testing is still part of the product development process, and the feedback from initial field trials are for you, to understand operations, resolve any found issues and finesse the product prior to market launch & introduction.

 

I have used ‘customer feedback sessions’ at the end of a Sprint cycle to gain input for future Springs, with ‘Show and Tell’ sessions and the customers were part of an invited ‘Customer Council’.

 

You could run a private Slack channel or Google Hangout chat or even a Skype Group chat to solicit the feedback from your testers, so everyone seeing the comments from the group.

Anyway good luck with this exciting phase of Product development as you prepare for launch.

Simon

Well said. I was going to chime in and support Alex on the premise that the input from beta testers should be for internal, development use only, but you nailed it, Simon! 

 

 

[Puma Cat]

20 hours ago, Superdad said:

What a day...   BETA-TEST UNITS HAVE SHIPPED!!  

Here's a pic of a few of them.

Congrats, Alex and John! 

[Pinkfaunrookie]

On 9/18/2019 at 2:45 AM, Superdad said:

OFFICIAL FINAL EtherREGEN PRICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

After a final run through of costs, including some last items and an assessment of unit preparation and test-cycle labor, we have settled on a retail price of $640 (USD).

You dont know how happy i am with that number!

When can we reserve one of the first final versions?

After buying can we place a review like on headfi?  As i want to update my dead honest review there about my BC gear..but now with the new switch (and my new Pink Faun streamer) those two will be a marriage in heaven..ps..they look soooo tiny! My streamer is a huge monster . 😉

[Superdad]

15 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

You dont know how happy i am with that number!

Glad you like it!

 

15 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

When can we reserve one of the first final versions?

 

It won't be too long.  We expect to release the final production files to our PCB house this next week.  Could receive the boards about 3 weeks after that. Plus a week or so to program, test, assemble, etc.  So I am pretty comfortable saying we are about 6 weeks from first shipments.  

As for accepting orders, please refer to: 

 

Of course it now hits me that I need to focus on writing the web page so that once we can accurately predict the ship date we can open up to orders. (The Owner's Manual is the other big task weighing on my mind.)

 

 

15 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

After buying can we place a review like on headfi?

Sure.  We would never want to impose restrictions on what/where people discuss and review our products. 

 

15 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

My streamer is a huge monster . 😉

Don't let it bite you. 

[Blake]

On 9/17/2019 at 2:58 PM, Pinkfaunrookie said:

Lolz..us europeans are getting discriminated...whahahaha i have a nice Pink Faun streamer who volunteered to be a test mule also..with some Blue Circle Audio goodness..poor us...hehehehe

 

Good to see a fellow Blue Circle Audio fan.  Unfortunate that Gilbert semi-retired, as he was one of the most talented and, possibly the most creative audio designers I've ever encountered.  

 

The EtherRegen will be worth the wait. 

[HumanMedia]

Anxiously awaiting the next page of this narrative. Have the beta testers received their units yet?

[Superdad]

29 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Anxiously awaiting the next page of this narrative. Have the beta testers received their units yet?

 

They all received their units this past Saturday.  Functional reports have been perfect so far.  Beta-tester's reactions to the sonics have John and I grinning from ear-to-ear. And the level of their systems run the gamut from modest to SOTA.

 

John gave me the final minor BoM (bill-of-materials) revisions over the weekend, and this afternoon he is taking one last (out of 100) looks at the board files to be sure everything is perfect.  In the morning I will turn everything into our board house with the production order.  They already have all $60K+ of parts stock for the first run as I paid for all that months ago. The 4 additional capacitors that got added since the second round of beta are the same as one we already use 124 per board of, so no delay with that one.  John change the value of a few resistors to dim down both the power LED and the LEDs on the 'B'-side port (I hate bright LEDs), but those are tiny and totally generic so again, no delay added there.

 

That's all for now. 

[Tubeburner]

Looking forward to the release of the EtherREGEN!

[Bernstein]

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

They all received their units this past Saturday.  Functional reports have been perfect so far.  Beta-tester's reactions to the sonics have John and I grinning from ear-to-ear. And the level of their systems run the gamut from modest to SOTA.

 

John gave me the final minor BoM (bill-of-materials) revisions over the weekend, and this afternoon he is taking one last (out of 100) looks at the board files to be sure everything is perfect.  In the morning I will turn everything into our board house with the production order.  They already have all $60K+ of parts stock for the first run as I paid for all that months ago. The 4 additional capacitors that got added since the second round of beta are the same as one we already use 124 per board of, so no delay with that one.  John change the value of a few resistors to dim down both the power LED and the LEDs on the 'B'-side port (I hate bright LEDs), but those are tiny and totally generic so again, no delay added there.

 

That's all for now. 

The first order will feel like waiting for the Apple Store to open...lining up 😋 to the madness 😛

[baconbrain]

17 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

They all received their units this past Saturday.  Functional reports have been perfect so far.  Beta-tester's reactions to the sonics have John and I grinning from ear-to-ear. And the level of their systems run the gamut from modest to SOTA.

 

 

If the product is half as good as your pre-sales marketing skills, then it should be a winner ...