EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

@JohnSwenson a question regarding the metallcase around the LAN port on the B-side how is that connected to other parts of the etherREGEN? Is there a connection to other metallcases (RJ45 A-side) and to the groundconnection or is it floating compared to them for example?

 

The metal shroud of the ‘B’-side RJ45 port absolutely is not common to any other EtherREGEN ground (or to anything on the ‘A’ side). If it was then that would defeat much of isolation which we go to so much trouble to create. 

[octaviars]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 If it was then that would defeat much of isolation which we go to so much trouble to create.

 

I assumed this but better to ask. Is the metal shroud on the ´B`-side not connected to anything? So if I were to use a screened cabel from streamer to etherREGEN with the screen connected to the plug it would just end in the metal shroud on the B-side is this correct?

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

I assumed this but better to ask. Is the metal shroud on the ´B`-side not connected to anything? So if I were to use a screened cabel from streamer to etherREGEN with the screen connected to the plug it would just end in the metal shroud on the B-side is this correct?

The metal case of the B RJ-45 is connected to the GND of the B side. BUT the GND of the B side is not connected to the GND of the A side.

 

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

John S.

[octaviars]

18 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

 

 

[JohnSwenson]

6 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

 

 

I highly doubt it. Of course nothing is stopping you from trying, but my guess is that it will make no difference.

 

John S.

[marce]

On 8/17/2019 at 12:43 PM, octaviars said:

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

 

 

the magnetic's provide an isolation transformer and a common mode inductor so they don't need any GND connection as such. The  RJ45 (shield) case is either connected directly to the board 0V direct, the boards 0V via a cap or many design have a separate chassis connection, the shield can be connected either directly to this or again by a cap.

Myself I wouldn't connect the screen of a Ethernet cable for domestic use, the wires are not that long and you never know what the RJ45 case is connected to in other devices so you can create an unintentional ground loop....

[octaviars]

20 minutes ago, marce said:

Myself I wouldn't connect the screen of a Ethernet cable for domestic use, the wires are not that long and you never know what the RJ45 case is connected to in other devices so you can create an unintentional ground loop....

 

I think @JohnSwenson already answered how it is in the etherREGEN

 

On 8/16/2019 at 6:57 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

John S.

 

So if you dont use any external 10MHz connection as I see it wont be able to make any groundloops to other equipment if you would (by accident or intentional) use a LAN cable with the screen connected to the plug in both ends (I dont plan to do it) but I might be wrong about this, I am shure John will fill in if I got it wrong

[Bones13]

Yeah, this thread has quieted down, as the earliest possible (not promised!) shipping of the first round is now November. I’m still happy to see the progress, and the careful development of this box. Fortunately, no one should be doing without music, with some other switch/hub working in their system. (I have some D-Link generic hub currently in that spot)

 

(crossed fingers that another board, or part supply, issue occurs)

 

Still looking forward to improving my system with the etherRegen, it has been great fun watching the development process, along with the trials, and tribulations faced by the UpTone team. Thanks again for sharing with us!  It would have been so easy to not mention this product until the actual release.

 

I'm taking the Thanksgiving week off, maybe I will get to put the etherRegento use that weekend?

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

Yeah, this thread has quieted down, as the earliest possible (not promised!) shipping of the first round is now November.

 

Not sure how you came up with November as the “earliest possible shipping.”  We are still crossing our fingers for October. The cases for EtherREGEN arrive October 2nd.  Of course everything depends on how functional the new (final?) round of pre-production/beta-test boards are.  Those should arrive at John’s lab this coming Monday and he will get started with them right away.  I have a good feeling about these...

 

1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

Still looking forward to improving my system with the etherRegen, it has been great fun watching the development process, along with the trials, and tribulations faced by the UpTone team. Thanks again for sharing with us!  It would have been so easy to not mention this product until the actual release.

 

Yes, well there are pros and cons to announcing early.  And really if we had known development would take this long we probably would not have started talking that far in advance.  Seeing what was going on in the market—with several other rather uninspired switches and mods, some at silly prices—is what compelled us to reveal the project and its wholly unique architecture.

 

We have had a couple of other innovative products in the works concurrent with EtherREGEN, and so far I’ve done a good job keeping my mouth shut about them.  It would be fun to for once launch a product and have it be a surprise.  I’m sure that within a couple of months of the EtherREGEN launch I’ll start to spill some beans. But by then at least one of the new pieces will be fully working on the bench and be much easier to predict production for.  

 

1 minute ago, Bones13 said:

I’m taking the Thanksgiving week off, maybe I will get to put the etherRegento use that weekend?

 

And what, you think I’m planning to give up my Thanksgiving holiday week to get you an EtherREGEN?! 

Honestly, I’ll be pretty bummed if they are not in people’s systems well before then...

[Bones13]

I do apologize for saying November. You mentioned that the cases were arriving in October. Some one else said November - my mistake.

 

I was trying to refer to the development of the etherRegen as you have shared it with us. As a non-entrepreneur and non-electronic whiz, and a non-manufacturer, your work process seems very scary to me.

 

I don’t take much time off, and I’m only taking the three days of the Thanksgiving we off to be with my kids coming home for that period. It will also be a good time, for me, to give a good listen to any changes I might make in my system.

 

Again, I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

[Bernstein]

3 hours ago, Bones13 said:

I do apologize for saying November. You mentioned that the cases were arriving in October. Some one else said November - my mistake.

 

I was trying to refer to the development of the etherRegen as you have shared it with us. As a non-entrepreneur and non-electronic whiz, and a non-manufacturer, your work process seems very scary to me.

 

I don’t take much time off, and I’m only taking the three days of the Thanksgiving we off to be with my kids coming home for that period. It will also be a good time, for me, to give a good listen to any changes I might make in my system.

 

Again, I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

 

I also have done development project several times. This is quiet normal from my experience! Important to know: when you have the board in your hand the reality check often shows something new. Ideally you can try to solve it with SW and/or live with compromises. This idealistic guys are obviously trying not to bring it to the customer ASAP and rather looking for ways to further refine it and extent the performance by going into more detail.

Additional beta testing by customers are also adding information about performance in the field! 

 

I am very confident of the way of working and impressed about the communication.  

[Pinkfaunrookie]

I am late to this thread but have a quick question, will the switch have sfp(+) ports also to minimize the noise out of your system? I ask this as i want to build a music system based on sfp switch (fiber optic), as i understand thats the best way to go to keep noise/ inteference out.

Thanks.

[Puma Cat]

I  may have missed it in the posts above, but is there a voltage spec for powering the EtherREGEN yet? 

 

I'm hoping my LPS-1 will power it,  but my guess is it will require about 9V. 

[brad225]

I have read through all 49 pages with great interest but not always understanding many technical parts of the discussion.

 

If this has been covered and I missed it, my apologies. Is there information about preorder and pricing anywhere that I have overlooked?

 

Thanks Brad

[octaviars]

On 3/22/2018 at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

• Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
• One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
• Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
• Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

 

@Pinkfaunrookie in the first post there are much information, often long threads here on this forum have the first post updated with information so you dont need to look all over the place.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

Please don't ask about release date.  You and I want it now, but I promised John he could first continue work on some important "clock fingerprint" measurement test boards.  As usual, we would dearly love to prove the efficacy of the REGENs (both USB and Ethernet), and if he is successful, the new measurement jig (involving special high-speed ADCs, a processor board, and a bunch of other boards) could provide proof for a range of upstream variables that we all hear, especially with regards to data clocking for which nobody understands why it makes a difference.  Could blow things wide open.  Or it could be a bust.  That's what research and test is all about.

Of course if the preproduction prototypes of the EtherREGEN test well on the bench--even if John's clock-marker tests don't get done in time or don't pan out--and if the unit is sonically effective in an audio system, then we are going to put it into production as soon as possible.

 

 

@brad225 no preorder yet and I think the price target is $625

 

29 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

I  may have missed it in the posts above, but is there a voltage spec for powering the EtherREGEN yet? 

 

I'm hoping my LPS-1 will power it,  but my guess is it will require about 9V. 

 

7-12V and I think time will tell if a LPS-1 will power it, depends on how many LAN ports/SFP you use as that affects the current draw.

 

 

[brad225]

Thanks Octaviars. I will keep an eye open for announcement.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Bones13 said:

Again, I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

No feathers ruffled, I promise!   Sorry if the tone of my reply seemed like it.  I consider every reply to be an opportunity to update the public on the status of the project.

 

1 hour ago, Bernstein said:

I am very confident of the way of working and impressed about the communication.  

That is very kind of you to say. I enjoy being open about our thinking and strategy.  It is who we are and folks seem to appreciate it.  This forum is truly the only "Marketing" I do.  Easy, pleasant, and cheap! 

[Superdad]

51 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

I am late to this thread but have a quick question, will the switch have sfp(+) ports also to minimize the noise out of your system? I ask this as i want to build a music system based on sfp switch (fiber optic), as i understand thats the best way to go to keep noise/interference out.

 

Yes, the EtherREGEN does include one Gigabit SFP port.  But use of it is not necessary to keep "noise/interference" out because all the unique advancements included--using active differential isolators and dual-domain clocking/data/power--should isolate the copper ports from upstream elements just as well as fiber.  

 

My apologies to everyone: All the design features, benefits, and tech explanations--including some diagrams--really need to be gathered together soon. As a starter for a new launch thread, and on a web page for the EtherREGEN. People should not have to dig through a 50 page thread to find all of what we have said (though searching for just my and @JohnSwenson's long posts will reveal a lot).  Even the first post of this thread desperately needs updating.

 

43 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

I  may have missed it in the posts above, but is there a voltage spec for powering the EtherREGEN yet?

 

7~12V +DC.

 

43 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

I'm hoping my LPS-1 will power it,  but my guess is it will require about 9V. 

 

EtherREGEN will draw more current at 7V than at 12V.  So while the UltraCap LPS-1.2 (which users can set to 12V/1.1A) will work fine, the original UltraCap LPS-1, with top voltage of 7V/1.1A will not have enough current. Sorry, we did try hard to make it possible, but there are a LOT of chips to power.

[Superdad]

On 8/21/2019 at 9:03 AM, brad225 said:

I have read through all 49 pages with great interest but not always understanding many technical parts of the discussion.

 

Welcome to the Audiophile Style forum Brad!

Sorry if a lot of what goes on in this thread gets overly technical (plus some enthusiasts here enjoy taking tangents and asking questions about things that may or may not matter ).

I'm working on consolidating and simplifying all the most important information--for both a new thread and for the product web page.

 

Actual use of the EtherREGEN will be exceedingly simple.  Just place it right before whatever is your DAC-connected computer/streamer/renderer (or Ethernet-input DAC if you have one) and enjoy all the benefits of our sophisticated design.

 

Quote

If this has been covered and I missed it, my apologies. Is there information about preorder and pricing anywhere that I have overlooked?

 

We are not yet accepting pre-orders for the EtherREGEN.  What we do for launches is notify everyone via our mailing list and via our forum—a few days before, when the product page is up but the “AddToCart” button is not shown.  We will not accept any orders until we know and announce the exact date we plan to ship.

 

We tell in the e-mail the date and time (always 9:00 a.m. PST, usually a Tuesday) that order taking will begin, and right at 9:00 orders pour in.  People set their alarms to get their orders in because the first run (250 units) may sell out in the first few hours. But even if they do sell out, we will quickly order more boards even before the first ones arrive—so that the gap between shipping of first and second production runs should be only 2-3 weeks.

 

This is really the only manageable and ethical way for us to do product launches. We appreciate your patience.

 

[thotdoc]

To get the best SQ, the eR should be powered by an LPS-1.2 and very short power cable...ie, the same drill as with the uR...Is that correct?

 

Thank you..

 

G

[JohnSwenson]

8 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

To get the best SQ, the eR should be powered by an LPS-1.2 and very short power cable...ie, the same drill as with the uR...Is that correct?

 

Thank you..

 

G

That is one of the intriguing things, we don't know yet.In the configuration most people will be using it (B side RJ45 to streamer) we have a built in high quality isolating power supply between the external power supply and the circuitry. The B side chips actually have a 4 stage power network powering them. I'm not sure how much of external power supply will get through that.

 

Even on the A side from say RJ45 to another A side RJ45, there is a two stage power network for everything. The result is that the quality of the external supply may not be as important as for other designs. But we really won't know for a while.

 

John S.

[gstew]

John and/or Alex,

I just re-read the great description a few posts above and had a thought. Will the "four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks" connect to a non-Gigabit source? I know from a previous answer the SFP module is Gigabit only... will I have to have a Gigabit source to connect to the "dirty-side" RJ5 jacks?

Likely a dumb question for those who know more about networking than I (and I thought I could get along ok, but am learning there's a LOT I haven't encountered yet).

Greg in Mississippi

[JohnSwenson]

The A side RJ45 jacks are all 10/100/1000. The A side SFP is just 1000 and the B side is 100.

 

There really is no "clean" and "dirty" side with the current implementation. There is a slight difference in clocking and power between sides, but certainly not worthy of the monikers "clean" and "dirty". I'm just using A and B sides. A has the 4 RJ45 jacks and the SFP cage, B has the single 100Mb RJ45.

 

John S.

[thotdoc]

On 8/22/2019 at 7:10 PM, JohnSwenson said:

That is one of the intriguing things, we don't know yet.In the configuration most people will be using it (B side RJ45 to streamer) we have a built in high quality isolating power supply between the external power supply and the circuitry. The B side chips actually have a 4 stage power network powering them. I'm not sure how much of external power supply will get through that.

 

Even on the A side from say RJ45 to another A side RJ45, there is a two stage power network for everything. The result is that the quality of the external supply may not be as important as for other designs. But we really won't know for a while.

 

John S.

Thank you

 

G

[Puma Cat]

On 8/21/2019 at 9:43 AM, Superdad said:

 

Yes, the EtherREGEN does include one Gigabit SFP port.  But use of it is not necessary to keep "noise/interference" out because all the unique advancements included--using active differential isolators and dual-domain clocking/data/power--should isolate the copper ports from upstream elements just as well as fiber.  

 

My apologies to everyone: All the design features, benefits, and tech explanations--including some diagrams--really need to be gathered together soon. As a starter for a new launch thread, and on a web page for the EtherREGEN. People should not have to dig through a 50 page thread to find all of what we have said (though searching for just my and @JohnSwenson's long posts will reveal a lot).  Even the first post of this thread desperately needs updating.

 

 

7~12V +DC.

 

 

EtherREGEN will draw more current at 7V than at 12V.  So while the UltraCap LPS-1.2 (which users can set to 12V/1.1A) will work fine, the original UltraCap LPS-1, with top voltage of 7V/1.1A will not have enough current. Sorry, we did try hard to make it possible, but there are a LOT of chips to power.

Thanks, Alex, appreciate the info.