EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[afrancois]

An extreme version of the EtherREGEN could feature a separate power input for the A and B side 🙂

 

If not, an idea for the fearless DIYers?

 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, afrancois said:

An extreme version of the EtherREGEN could feature a separate power input for the A and B side.

Not necessary.

5 hours ago, afrancois said:

If not, an idea for the fearless DIYers?

No, that would never work.

[thyname]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:56 PM, Superdad said:

Thanks.

 

Ask me that 10 days from now. 

 

10 days are up 🙂

[Bones13]

42 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

10 days are up 🙂

 

LoL, it’s not going to be here till it’s ready, but that is funny.

[FredM]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:46 AM, Superdad said:

The EtherREGEN will be as effective in either direction.  So what you propose will work great.  It is why we went to the extra trouble and expense of making all the clocking, data, and power networks symmetrical on both sides of the moat.

 

Hi Alex,

Thanks for being so informative, the EtherRegen is keen product for sure. As the ER is designed symmetrical, I’m wondering: When connecting the ER between Server, Endpoint and switch/NAS, a double moat crossing can be achieved. Would this be beneficial? (Double treatment??)

 

Reason I ask: SOtM and Paul Pang claim a double box or dual switch respectively increases SQ. Perhaps a similar effect can be achieved within one ER, thanks to the symmetrical design (or am I just talking complete rubbish? 😉 )

 

[JohnSwenson]

The audio Endpoint should be on the opposite side from anything else. The way you have it here is probably the worst possible way to hook things up. The Endpoint is now susceptible to both leakage and clock effects from the NAS and external network.

 

The "two switch" approach espoused by other companies exists because they do not have leakage and clock isolation technology in the EtherREGEN. There is NO NEED for the double switch approach with the EtherREGEN.

 

John S.

[FredM]

2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The audio Endpoint should be on the opposite side from anything else. The way you have it here is probably the worst possible way to hook things up. The Endpoint is now susceptible to both leakage and clock effects from the NAS and external network.

 

The "two switch" approach espoused by other companies exists because they do not have leakage and clock isolation technology in the EtherREGEN. There is NO NEED for the double switch approach with the EtherREGEN.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John, Endpoint on opposite of the rest, appreciated and all clear!

[Summit]

10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The "two switch" approach espoused by other companies exists because they do not have leakage and clock isolation technology in the EtherREGEN. There is NO NEED for the double switch approach with the EtherREGEN.

 

John S.

 

You got me curious. What clock isolation technology have you implemented in the EtherREGEN that the other audiophile switches don’t have?

[Ehsu]

11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The audio Endpoint should be on the opposite side from anything else. The way you have it here is probably the worst possible way to hook things up. The Endpoint is now susceptible to both leakage and clock effects from the NAS and external network.

@JohnSwenson what if I have more than 1 endpoint? 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Summit said:

You got me curious. What clock isolation technology have you implemented in the EtherREGEN that the other audiophile switches don’t have?

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

[Bernstein]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

Get well soon!!!

Sorry to hear!

[Ehsu]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

Oh no! It’s the worst pain and doctors can’t do anything to fix them! You have to let them heal naturally 😞. 

Well looking at the bright side, at least broken ribs won’t affect your hearing 🙂

[drjimwillie]

Hi Alex

 It sounds like time to turn off all work related things and enjoy some music.

 And, I am sure, some well deserved rest.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Bernstein said:

Get well soon!!!

Sorry to hear!

Thank you!

 

1 hour ago, Ehsu said:

Oh no! It’s the worst pain and doctors can’t do anything to fix them! You have to let them heal naturally 😞. 

Well looking at the bright side, at least broken ribs won’t affect your hearing 🙂

What's that sonny?! I can't hear you.

 

1 hour ago, drjimwillie said:

 It sounds like time to turn off all work related things and enjoy some music.

 And, I am sure, some well deserved rest.

My wife is watching to be sure I do not overdo it.  But between the dozens of e-mails that came in since I left Thursday, the UltraCap LPS-1.2 boards arriving tomorrow for a couple dozen orders which were promised to ship tomorrow (now Friday seems more like it), the audit work I have to do on the EtherREGEN cases so we place the production order, and some work with John on the bill-of-materials for the next round of pre-production boards (more on that later)--I am just thankful for my standing desk! (Laying down is vastly more painful than standing.)

 

[stevebythebay]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

Really sorry to hear.  I did that on a bike a number of years ago (along with a collapsed lung).  Didn’t even know it at the time (finished my remaining 25 miles on the ride).  Took a few days till pain/breathing issues got me to my doctor for any X-ray.  Recovery was slow.  

 

Just take your time.

[austinpop]

Sorry to hear about the rib, @Superdad. Hope you feel better soon.

[soares]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

I am so sorry. I hope you get better soon.

cheers jorge

[PYP]

When you announced this product, I distinctly remember saying:  break a leg.  A leg!

 

I hope you don't find that unfunny and also that it didn't make you laugh (painful!)

 

My best for a speedy recovery.  

[lmitche]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs

Oh no!!!! Please take it easy. Best wishes for a quick recovery.

[willyhot]

12 hours ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

 Sorry to hear that, Get well soon!  

[vortecjr]

If you are having issues sleeping a comfortable reclining chair my might do the trick. Get well soon!

[thotdoc]

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

 

I am so sorry about your ribs...been there, done that and it is painful. Going out with friends tomorrow night for drinks..I'll have a few for you. Hope it makes you feel better...

 

Best,

 

G

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, thotdoc said:

I am so sorry about your ribs...been there, done that and it is painful. Going out with friends tomorrow night for drinks..I'll have a few for you. Hope it makes you feel better...

 

Laying down and sleeping is the worst.  I’m really trying to avoid the opioids, so I’m trying a few shots of a nice bourbon my wife got me. Also trying the couch tonight (firmer than the bed)—which will give my wife a break both from my pain yelps and my snoring. 

Still I expect it to be a long night. 

 

I do have news to share about EtherREGEN. Will try to get to that tomorrow. 

 

Thanks all,

ALEX

 

P.S. Here’s two pics from our Eastern Sierra trip the day before my bike accident:

Rainbow Falls and Devil’s Postpile National Monument. 

[Summit]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:12 AM, Superdad said:

 I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

We’ve been talking about the key differentiating and unique features of our EtherREGEN since the beginning. Here is post that covers a good deal of them—and in relation to competing products as well.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-we-are-getting-much-closer/?do=findComment&comment=965263

The key point in answer to your question is that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation. 

We format the data so that it can go back and forth over a “moat” via a high-speed, low-jitter, differential isolator—followed by fantastically low-jitter flip-flops on both sides.

 

Now the Ethernet chips (and the flip-flops) on both sides of the moat need clocks—which have to be synchronous—so we dedicate a second of the same advanced active isolator chip to pass the clocks into the two domains. 

 

Of course for the above data and clock isolation to be in effect, all the power planes must be galvanically isolated into two domains as well. And they are.  

 

Study the photo of the board that we posted and you will see all of the above.  This dual, isolated domain data/power/clocking topology is completely unique to the EtherREGEN. And we believe it will result in the elimination of the effects of upstream jitter/phase-noise (which may be heard not because of jitter in the data—Ethernet does not mind that—but because of the effect on power planes; John is testing this and his hypothesis is deeper than what I am saying here).

 

That’s all I can type on my phone for now. Time to change the ice pack on my rib cage. 

 

Sorry to hear about the accident, @Superdad.

 

I am, like many others here, looking forward to the EtherREGEN and believe that it can be a hit. Am no expert on switches and may be wrong, but from my understanding Up Tone Audio have some nice new ground breaking isolations solutions related to letting the signal go back and forth over a moat. To say that no other Ethernet switches have ANY clock isolation is probably not correct though. SOtM use a low phase noise oscillation circuit and have isolated differential clock signal distribution along with LAN filtering, LAN isolation and LAN insulation. I believe SOtM besides the GI from LAN rely more on passive filtering and insulation than you do. Maybe active is better, I don’t know.   

 

I sincerely hope you feel better soon and I am eagerly looking forward to get my hands on an EtherREGEN.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Laying down and sleeping is the worst.  I’m really trying to avoid the opioids, so I’m trying a few shots of a nice bourbon my wife got me. Also trying the couch tonight (firmer than the bed)—which will give my wife a break both from my pain yelps and my snoring. 

Still I expect it to be a long night. 

 

I do have news to share about EtherREGEN. Will try to get to that tomorrow. 

 

Thanks all,

ALEX

 

P.S. Here’s two pics from our Eastern Sierra trip the day before my bike accident:

Rainbow Falls and Devil’s Postpile National Monument. 

I broke a couple of ribs a few years ago. Not fun. Whatever you do, don't sneeze or cough- ouch!

After 3-4 days you should feel improvement, and after a week it will be much better. Takes about 3 weeks to really feel almost gone, though. 

Can you imagine that American football players play in games and get hit with the same injury? Yes, I know they wear padding, but believe me, if you get hit, it hurt like a b****.  Much less that just moving with broken ribs hurts.