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EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]


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Ah! cautious man, you ask month but do not ask year.😂

Francisco

 

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Having earned my Engineering degree (way back) in 1981, I'm sometimes lost when it comes to networking.  Please clarify if the EtherREGEN is "perfect" for my situation.  I am hoping to purchase a simple (but high quality, how does one do that?) modem, preferably with one "out", and no wireless capabilities, then potentially insert the EtherREGEN between that modem and my dedicated Cary DMS-500 streamer.  No NAS, no computers, anywhere.  Sometimes a CD player.

It seems this would be the ideal situation for the EtherREGEN.  One short Ethernet cable to my streamer and another (of "plain" quality) to my wireless router (and after that, who cares: from the wireless router (wired or not) to everything else).  As opposed to my current methodology: late at night remove from the digital chain the wireless router, and plug the Ethernet cable from my modem directly into my streamer.  All other users... should be asleep.  (For good measure, power the EtherREGEN and my modem with a linear power supply with two correctly sized outputs.)  The EtherREGEN "should" preclude deterioration of the signal going to my streamer, from any of the other five or ten devices also utilizing the internet.  And perhaps provide other benefits which I haven't yet heard described.

Viola!  Yes?

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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43 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

Please clarify if the EtherREGEN is "perfect" for my situation.

 

We all want that 😀

 

Then the only way is to try.

 

Alex have to answer this to you, but you could ask him he may accept a return if you’re  not happy.

 

I don’t know if the plan this time is to only make 250 units in first batch. And they’re (previous products) normally sold out first day. So I would think it’s a good idea to be among the first ones to purchase. Then a return should be easy, as there’s most likely a high demand. 

On the other hand, others will wait for reports and feedbacks before purchase. 

In addition the EtherRegen is also Uptone most expensive product so far, so I have totally no idea how fast the demand will be. 

 

If you want answers from others, it may help telling about what system you have, as all things normally is system depending. 

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I have a high-end system, and music is normally steamed via TIDAL to a Cary DMS-500 Streamer.  System description below.  But just as thirty years ago, what I have in addition to the streamer is of little importance.  Back then, if you didn't have a good turntable, tonearm, and cartridge, it didn't matter what other equipment you had; NOW the quality of the data stream from the box outside my house (through a modem) to my streamer is the weak link in my system.  

 

Part of my system:

No computers, no NAS.  Sometimes I use my old Linn Genki CD player as a transport, but that is not pertinent to streaming.

I will employ a Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack and various other vibration isolation devices. I have a dedicated mains line servicing nothing but the modem, streamer, and headphone amp (and sometimes the CD player).   If that circuit ever sees 1.5 amps I'll be surprised.  IsoTek Sirius IVO3 power conditioner.  As my system is still in the works: for listening I have a tube headphone amp I borrowed from a friend and HiFi Man HE-400i headphones.  Likely replacements: Blue Hawaii SE amplifier and Stax SR-009 headphones. 

 

(I called about having installed a second dedicated modem; but AT&T says they allow only one modem per household for residential customers.  I guess it would be possible to get a second modem, and service, from my local cable provider.  But without a bundle, I don't know if that would be worth an additional $60 to $70 per month.  Comparing the sound quality between the two would be enlightening though!  Sadly there is AT&T fiber around me, but not at my house.)

 

The question remains, will the EtherREGEN allow me to deliver one pristine signal to my streamer, while sending (and isolating) the data stream for the myriad other pieces of electronic equipment off to a wireless router... and beyond?

 

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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2 hours ago, DelsFan said:

Having earned my Engineering degree (way back) in 1981, I'm sometimes lost when it comes to networking.  Please clarify if the EtherREGEN is "perfect" for my situation.  I am hoping to purchase a simple (but high quality, how does one do that?) modem, preferably with one "out", and no wireless capabilities, then potentially insert the EtherREGEN between that modem and my dedicated Cary DMS-500 streamer.  No NAS, no computers, anywhere.  Sometimes a CD player.

It seems this would be the ideal situation for the EtherREGEN.  One short Ethernet cable to my streamer and another (of "plain" quality) to my wireless router (and after that, who cares: from the wireless router (wired or not) to everything else).  As opposed to my current methodology: late at night remove from the digital chain the wireless router, and plug the Ethernet cable from my modem directly into my streamer.  All other users... should be asleep.  (For good measure, power the EtherREGEN and my modem with a linear power supply with two correctly sized outputs.)  The EtherREGEN "should" preclude deterioration of the signal going to my streamer, from any of the other five or ten devices also utilizing the internet.  And perhaps provide other benefits which I haven't yet heard described.

Viola!  Yes?

 

You will need a "router" somewhere in your network. Most would have the router take the output from the modem, it then creates the network. An etherRegen would plug in to your router, and then you could plug your other parts into the etherRegen.

 

etherRegen is a "switch", but not a router. Look up the difference between and router and a switch for more technical details.

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So, fifteen years ago I had a modem with a router built in (because it had one input and four outputs, so by definition it included a router); but being primitive it just wasn't a wireless router?

 

Looking up switch vs router now.  Although I have a niece working on her PhD in some sort of computer science; she presents papers in France and Spain and who knows where else, to some acclaim.  Maybe she is an under-utilized resource...

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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What many call modems are often bridges. What many call routers are are often bridge, switch, WiFi accesspoint and router all-in-ones. Some call the all-in-one routers modems etc. Complete chaos! :)

 

In a nutshell (and not 100% correct let alone complete which is not the point here):

Bridge: to ‘bridge’ data from one type of network to an other e.g. cable/DSL to ethernet (layer 1+2)

Switch: to transfer ethernet frames from one port on that switch to an other (layer 2)

Router: to transfer IP packets from one network segment or subnet to an other (layer 3)

 

You’ll need a router for Internet communications but not necessarily for a home network if all your devices are in one segment/subnet (e.g. 192.168.1.0/24).

 

You’ll need a switch if you want more than two devices communicating with each other in a (‘hub and spoke’) network.

 

You’ll need a WiFi accesspoint if you want to connect a device to your ethernet network using radio. Most WiFi routers (with built in switches and/or WAN-LAN routers and sometimes ‘modems’) can also be purely used as access points.

 

One can connect multiple switches together, if the devices connected to those switches are operating in the same network segment/subnet, as long as one doesn’t create loops.

 

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I thought I needed a switch because many people seem to think inserting one of the "better" ones between their router and streamer or computer increases sound quality.  I won't list examples.  However, the switch doesn't really isolate my streamer from the other five or ten devices in my home, which are also connected to the internet.

 

So although some switches might improve sound quality, if I am going to use any product similar in function to the EtherRENDU, incorporating a switch would be of little additional benefit?  I would use the EtherRENDU instead, as a device purpose built to increase sound quality, whereas some of the better switches just happen to provide a small increase, kind of by accident?

 

---------------------------

 

BUT, I also looked up modems, and there are modems with one connection to the outside world (via coax or RJ-45), but also only one RJ-45 output jack.  So, if I wanted to plug in my streamer directly to that modem, via one Ethernet cable, my streamer should work (? without a router); and the signal it receives should be "better" because none of my other equipment is interfering.  (My other pieces of equipment may be wondering what became of their access to the Internet, but they wouldn't be interfering with my streamer!)

This is what I am looking to do, isolate my streamer from everything else connected to the Internet (or each other) in my house.  Except somehow I have to give my other equipment access to the internet.  My preference would be for my streamer to NOT be part of the network in any way.

 

Edit:  Upon review, this is my goal in a nutshell, so let me say it again:

This is what I am looking to do, isolate my streamer from everything else connected to the Internet (or each other) in my house.  Except somehow I have to give my other equipment access to the internet.  My preference would be for my streamer to NOT be part of the network in any way.

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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12 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

My preference would be for my streamer to NOT be part of the network in any way.

 

Why? If you want it to have Internet access for Tidal and want to control it using an iPad/laptop you’ll need to make it a part of your network.

 

Of course you could configure a more advanced network using multiple subnets and thus -logically- separate your streamer from other devices. They all need to come together though at the same router/modem which connects your home to the Internet. If you don;t want that you’ll need an additional cable/DSL/fiber connection in your home. ;)

 

If you want to ‘isolate’ your streamer from your network or better said provide it with an ethernet signal with optimal signal integrity get the etherREGEN and connect the streamer to the isolated port and one of the other etherREGEN ports to any other switch in your home network.

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I really appreciate your responses.  Let me ask one question, then we'll consider the case closed (assuming my conclusion below is essentially correct).  If I had a modem with one RJ-45 "output", and I connected my streamer to it with one Ethernet cable, would TIDAL communicate with my streamer?

 

Conclusion:

I thought my iPad was communicating with my streamer via Bluetooth.  But that isn't really based on anything - I need to find my owner's manual.

 

Yes, what you say is what I'm looking to do:  Provide my streamer with an Ethernet signal with optimal signal integrity.

 

I saw where the front and back panels of the EtherREGEN were described, but don't remember what I read. From your pretty simple explanation: to accomplish what I want to do efficiently and in great amounts I need a device like the EtherREGEN, designed to allow my streamer to be on the network but still be "isolated" from the potential problems caused from being so - rather than a switch, which might accidentally improve sound quality by a small amount.

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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19 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

I really appreciate your responses.  Let me ask one question, then we'll consider the case closed (assuming my conclusion below is essentially correct).  If I had a modem with one RJ-45 "output", and I connected my streamer to it with one Ethernet cable, would TIDAL communicate with my streamer?

 

Conclusion:

I thought my iPad was communicating with my streamer via Bluetooth.  But that isn't really based on anything - I need to find my owner's manual.

 

Yes, what you say is what I'm looking to do:  Provide my streamer with an Ethernet signal with optimal signal integrity.

 

I saw where the front and back panels of the EtherREGEN were described, but don't remember what I read. From your pretty simple explanation: to accomplish what I want to do efficiently and in great amounts I need a device like the EtherREGEN, designed to allow my streamer to be on the network but still be "isolated" from the potential problems caused from being so - rather than a switch, which might accidentally improve sound quality by a small amount.

Look at it this way.  Your current network stays exactly the say way it is today.  You want to “isolate” the streamer for Sound Quality reasons.  The idea is to place the etherregen as shown below.  “—>” is an ethernet cable.

 

Your network today —> Your streamer

 

Your network today —> EtherRegen —> Your streamer.

 

Nothing else changes.  Your ipad still uses WiFi to control the streamer.    More than this may just take a tech support call!

 

 

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@DelsFan, I think you take the ‘isolation’ part too literal. The purpose of the etherREGEN is to provide devices the best quality ethernet connection Uptone knows. Since it is a network consisting of multiple devices full isolation is not what we want since then it is no longer a network. We need those devices communicating with each other and through our Internet router/modem with the Internet. Your iPad is most probably communicating with your streamer using WiFI and your streamer has access to the Internet for Tidal.

 

So in your case I’d forget the word isolation and just think about what you want from a functional viewpoint. I’m thinking you want to keep everything as it is right now since it works like you want but also want to increase the sound quality of your streamer by optimizing it’s connection to your network. That’s what the etherREGEN is designed to do.

 

The etherREGEN is a switch and you can connect multiple switches together. So you can connect the etherREGEN to any other switch (a device with say three, four or more ethernet ports) in your home. It’s also possible to take the ethernet cable from your streamer (or is it using WiFi?) and plug that into the etherREGEN and add a new cable which you connect to the isolated port on the etherREGEN and your streamer.

 

So no need to get additional Internet connections into your home or physically or logically separate networks. It’s an add-in solution.

 

——

NB. There’s Uptone with the etherREGEN but to be fair there’s also Sonore which has a different solution which they say is effective as well. They create fully galvanically isolated network connections using fiber optic cables (still ethernet) and their ‘opticalModule’. That’s different from what’s discussed above or in this topic. What’ll be the best sounding solution will differ from case to case and may differ as well when compared in the same situation. Time will tell what’ll be the best solution.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Dutch said:

@DelsFan, ...Since it is a network consisting of multiple devices full isolation is not what we want since then it is no longer a network. We need those devices communicating with each other and through our Internet router/modem with the Internet...

 

...So in your case I’d forget the word isolation and just think about what you want from a functional viewpoint...

 

 

Sorry, had to step away for 24 hours...

 

But other than my iPad (which in a high-end system "should" communicate with my streamer by Bluetooth), I DON'T want a network for my streamer; I want it isolated completely - I'd prefer to not have any signals passing back and forth through a router or switch that my streamer shares with everything else.  And I don't care too much about function; I still have a turntable with one button: it toggles on and off.  Only one speed.  Doesn't even pick up the "needle" when the record is done playing.  But for decades it was the best sounding turntable available... that didn't cost more than a car.  Some say Ethernet doesn't matter, everything else matters but not Ethernet; some say it's "perfect" (not so many people here).  In an interesting article one can read here, John Darko asserts:

 

"Everything matters – to some, a notion so obvious that it’s hardly worth the keyboard press. To others, [it is] a contentious proposition that results in calls for measurements and double-blind (ABX) testing..."

 

In his article he reviews a really expensive switch, but also comments the differences between a few Ethernet cables.  Which "should" sound the same, but unless many are deluded, don't.

 

For my situation:

I'm just saying, in my experience "everything" does matter.  Therefore, isolating my streamer from the remainder of my network "should" matter.  However, John makes another good point,

"Furthermore, I won't ask if you believe in audible differences between digital cables. The B-word suggests an unnecessary leap of faith that’s all too easily side-stepped by trying things out for yourself. Instead, I ask: have you experienced audible differences between digital cables? Because, y’know,   experience matters".

 

Since so few people even rely on a streamer, rather than their computer, I guess one way for me to find an answer to the question at hand, which is:

  • Is there any negative impact from "everything else" on my network on the signal that reaches my streamer; or, does it not make any difference whatsoever whether I plug my streamer into a "naked" modem, or alternatively, the back of my all-in-one AT&T wireless modem/router with five or six other devices connected?

is to do the experiment myself.  Disconnect everything but the streamer from my "internet source" (hopefully a stand-alone modem) and listen; then see if I hear any difference from when I connect it back to the way it was before.  Maybe modems and routers and switches don't matter...   But I'd be surprised if that were the case. 

 

What a happy surprise to my pocketbook that would be though, if it proves true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!?

 

Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. 

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15 hours ago, DelsFan said:

I want it isolated completely - I'd prefer to not have any signals passing back and forth through a router or switch that my streamer shares with everything else.

 

Only way to do this is install ipfire in this box or similar one.  

You can actually use an old 386 computer if you happen to have one laying around. 

 

Red network from your modem. 

Green to everything else

Blue to to EtherRegen -> Streamer. 

 

You can use two wireless access points. One on each network. 

Or you go into the “settings” and open for that your iPad only can communicate between blue and green network. 

370121A3-4948-4A8B-82CF-8D712EA72645.jpeg

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I admire this pursuit of audio perfection, I really do, but I suspect my rig downstream simply wouldn’t have the sensitivity to reveal the ‘nth degree’ of benefit that this kind of approach could provide.

 

A fibre feed to an EtherREGEN from my router (with a wired feed from the EtherREGEN to the Server and Render) is likely to be my default position - at least until I can convince myself that an OpticalRendu would be worth the outlay over my UltraRendu! [Sorry to mention non-Uptone products there].

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8 hours ago, BlueDL said:

Sorry to mention non-Uptone products there.

 

In the end that’s what we will have to do !

 

The questions for many of us will be:

  • is there any improvement using the EtherRegen over the Optical Module, Assuming you’re only after using its FMC capabilities. 
  • Will an combo of any non optical Rendu and the EtherRegen be pretty equal to the optical Rendu’s.

 

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

In the end that’s what we will have to do !

 

The questions for many of us will be:

  • is there any improvement using the EtherRegen over the Optical Module, Assuming you’re only after using its FMC capabilities. 
  • Will an combo of any non optical Rendu and the EtherRegen be pretty equal to the optical Rendu’s.

 

Or is there any improvement using EtherRegen PLUS optical Rendu ( or in my case EtherRegen and optical Signature Rendu SE) over using either individually

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6 hours ago, lxgreen said:

Or is there any improvement using EtherRegen PLUS optical Rendu ( or in my case EtherRegen and optical Signature Rendu SE) over using either individually

 

That was how my first question was to be understood as you then will need some sort of an FMC upfront 😀

 

One thing I didn’t taught about is to first use that special 100 MHz port out to a FMC, (The optical module or a second EtherRegen) and then to one of the optical Rendu’s. 

But that sounds like a totally overkill.

 

I must admit it’s not 100% clear to me at the moment the exact difference between that previous named super-clean port is VS the other ports, as my understanding is that the design has changed during the development. 

 

I must go back and read some of Superdads many posts about that. I think the explanation is there.

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8 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

Why can’t you use the EtherRegen optical out directly to the optical Rendu or optical port of the optical Signature RenduSE. Then no need for an optical module or FMC.

It is my understanding the the optical port is on the "dirty" side of the switch which would basically defeat the whole purpose of using the EtherRegen.

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10 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

Why can’t you use the EtherRegen optical out directly to the optical Rendu or optical port of the optical Signature RenduSE. Then no need for an optical module or FMC.

You can do, but that would be a path that would under-utilise EtherRegen’s killer feature.

The best scenario I can think of is connecting the SFP to an existing optical network, and utilising the super duper single clean port for the endpoint that is connected to the DAC. @thyname is correct to say there is no “dirty” side, so I hope my statements don’t confuse things further.

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