EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, jos said:

I would like it If I can also order an Uptone Audio approved 25cm ethernet cable to connect it to my ultraRendu.

 

I have used and liked the Blue Jeans/Belden CAT6A for over 5 years.  It is a bit thick and will be stiff in the short length you propose.  I have never tried any of the boutique audio brand Ethernet cables so can't comment on those.

At present it is not our intention to sell or include with the EthernetREGEN any Ethernet cables.  But the truth is I had not thought about the subject until you mentioned it. 

 

58 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

Hope the unit’s female RJ45 accepts the higher end connectors, often found on AudioQuest and WireWorld Ethernet cables. I know that my cable, using a Metz male plug, has trouble locking in place in some switches, and needs some home-brew work to stay in place when plugged into my Roon Nucleus. 

 

Well the (12 transformer core per port) magjacks we chose for the EtherREGEN are, to my chagrin, some of the most expensive on the market. At just under $25 our cost at quantity for the total 5 copper ports, these are not what you will find on a cheap $20-60 switch.

So I sure hope that nobody has trouble using fancy RJ45 plugs with them! 

[stevebythebay]

In the absense of my bringing over a couple of these for testing, wherever that’s happening, I guess I’ll just have to await getting the EtherREGEN in my system. 

[jos]

I have been reading an article (review) about ethernet cables (not off-topic to much, I think), including the combinations you can make with different brands. Perhaps this review is somewhat valid voor the etherREGEN too. I guess Superdad would know for sure. For who is interested, see....

 

https://audiobacon.net/2017/07/09/sotm-iso-cat6-special-edition-the-flavors-of-audiophile-ethernet/

[Bones13]

Ouch, his favorite setup is ~$2,500!

 

I really plan to use a simpler Ethernet cable with clean-up provided by etherRegen, and my Bricasti unit. I currently have some Cables off of Amazon, that have only 2 twisted pair of wires (no PPoE), thin, and flexible, and sound the same as other commercial Cat5-7 cables that have been there, and the one AudioQuest cable I own.

 

I have a typical amount of audiophile nervousa, but I’m not willing to pay that much for digital cables. I’m also sure that my 60 year old ears will never detect timbre, and sound stage, differences between competently constructed Ethernet cables. YMMV, of course.

[BlueDL]

Well, as the subject has shifted to Ethernet cables, I was wondering whether to use UTP or STP between the optimised wired output of the EtherREGEN and an Ultrarendu. Assuming the EtherREGEN is earthed down at its grounding point (I will probably try this), is there a noise rejection benefit in using a short run of STP to the Ultrarendu if I feed the uR with an LPS-1 (output not grounded)?

[jos]

I have Supra cat8 cables all over my house and they are not very expensive, and do have  fantastic shielding. In my opinion shielding is very important (without the etherREGEN in place). Before my ultraRendu, I have had a long Supra USB 2.0 cable and that was a great cable too. Also with superior shielding.  So I Will stick to Supra, but perhaps I wil chose an other cable after the etherREGEN based on the review mentioned  before.

[jos]

1 hour ago, Bones13 said:

Ouch, his favorite setup is ~$2,500!

 

I really plan to use a simpler Ethernet cable with clean-up provided by etherRegen, and my Bricasti unit. I currently have some Cables off of Amazon, that have only 2 twisted pair of wires (no PPoE), thin, and flexible, and sound the same as other commercial Cat5-7 cables that have been there, and the one AudioQuest cable I own.

 

I have a typical amount of audiophile nervousa, but I’m not willing to pay that much for digital cables. I’m also sure that my 60 year old ears will never detect timbre, and sound stage, differences between competently constructed Ethernet cables. YMMV, of course.

Yes, that is ridiculous indeed! I would chose for Blue Jeans 6a or Supra cat8.

 

[Superdad]

Hi gents:

There are a number of other threads in the public forums where people are discussing Ethernet cables.  Please take discussion of such there--so that this thread does not wander off. 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[BlueDL]

I wasn’t looking at particular brand comparisons per sé, it was more an SOS / plea for advice regarding the need (or otherwise) for shielding on a short cable run from the EtherREGEN and an UltraRendu. I think the trick is to avoiding multiple earths (i.e. ground the shield at one end only), so if the EtherREGEN is deliberately grounded (as it will be LPS-1 fed) and the UltraRendu is fed from the floated output of an LPS-1, I presume I’m OK using S/FTP cable?

 

Sorry if this is ‘speaking out of turn’ on this particular forum.

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, BlueDL said:

 ...plea for advice regarding the need (or otherwise) for shielding on a short cable run from the EtherREGEN and an UltraRendu. I think the trick is to avoiding multiple earths (i.e. ground the shield at one end only), so if the EtherREGEN is deliberately grounded (as it will be LPS-1 fed) and the UltraRendu is fed from the floated output of an LPS-1, I presume I’m OK using S/FTP cable?

 

Sorry that I did not answer your question directly (and my off-topic admonishment was directed at the other two fellows peeking down the rabbit hole ).

 

It is preferred to use Ethernet cables that do not have metal shrouds over their RJ-45 plugs--as there is a possibility (depending upon the internal magnetics configuration of other devices) of undesirably linking grounds.

 

Most Ethernet cables with shields do have metal shrouds, however, the Blue Jeans/Belden CAT6A that we like is shielded--but has no shrouds and leaves the shield floating.  Effectiveness of that shield and comparisons to other cables are outside the scope of this thread.

 

Hope that helps.

Best,

Alex C.

[BlueDL]

13 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Sorry that I did not answer your question directly (and my off-topic admonishment was directed at the other two fellows peeking down the rabbit hole ).

 

It is preferred to use Ethernet cables that do not have metal shrouds over their RJ-45 plugs--as there is a possibility (depending upon the internal magnetics configuration of other devices) of undesirably linking grounds.

 

Most Ethernet cables with shields do have metal shrouds, however, the Blue Jeans/Belden CAT6A that we like is shielded--but has no shrouds and leaves the shield floating.  Effectiveness of that shield and comparisons to other cables are outside the scope of this thread.

 

Hope that helps.

Best,

Alex C.

Perfect! Thanks for the advice 👍🏻

[jos]

On 3/3/2019 at 7:54 PM, Superdad said:

Hi gents:

There are a number of other threads in the public forums where people are discussing Ethernet cables.  Please take discussion of such there--so that this thread does not wander off. 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

You are right, but we need the etherREGEN at Home to discus it further...😍

[LewinskiH01]

Hello Alex.

 

Trying to understand if this design is meant for an application such as mine: I have a regular PC running Roon in a bedroom, my audio PC on the rack running HQPlayer and connected thru USB to a multichannel DAC. Both PCs connect thru CAT6 to the router, as does the internet service provider modem.

Is the etherRegen meant to be connected to the modem and Roon PC on the dirty side and the AudioPC on the clean side?

 

Regards

Horacio

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Hello Alex.

 

Trying to understand if this design is meant for an application such as mine: I have a regular PC running Roon in a bedroom, my audio PC on the rack running HQPlayer and connected thru USB to a multichannel DAC. Both PCs connect thru CAT6 to the router, as does the internet service provider modem.

Is the etherRegen meant to be connected to the modem and Roon PC on the dirty side and the AudioPC on the clean side?

 

Regards

Horacio

Is your modem also a router?  For home users, switch should be connected to a router in general as the simplest solution. 

[diecaster]

3 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Hello Alex.

 

Trying to understand if this design is meant for an application such as mine: I have a regular PC running Roon in a bedroom, my audio PC on the rack running HQPlayer and connected thru USB to a multichannel DAC. Both PCs connect thru CAT6 to the router, as does the internet service provider modem.

Is the etherRegen meant to be connected to the modem and Roon PC on the dirty side and the AudioPC on the clean side?

 

Regards

Horacio

 

The EtherREGEN, in my opinion based on what I know so far, isn't going to be all that great in your situation. You have a general purpose PC feeding music over USB to your DAC. That PC is going to be passing along all kinds of electrical noise to the DAC over the USB connection. The noise added over the PC's Ethernet connection is minor in comparison.

 

Where the EtherREGEN will really shine is when you have a purpose built endpoint with Ethernet in, like an ultraRendu or sms200, feeding your DAC. The EtherREGEN would go in between the endpoint and the rest of the network.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Hello Alex.

Trying to understand if this design is meant for an application such as mine: I have a regular PC running Roon in a bedroom, my audio PC on the rack running HQPlayer and connected thru USB to a multichannel DAC. Both PCs connect thru CAT6 to the router, as does the internet service provider modem.

Is the etherRegen meant to be connected to the modem and Roon PC on the dirty side and the AudioPC on the clean side?

 

Hi Horacio:

 

To know where the best connection of EtherREGEN will be in any system it is easiest to think of first as if it has only two ports--one in and one out. (Of course it has more and Ethernet is bi-directional, but stick with me here.) And it goes "inline" closest to the endpoint.

 

Put another way, you want to put EtherREGEN just before whatever device (computer, streamer/renderer, or DAC with Ethernet input) is connected to your DAC.  So the Ethernet cable you now have going to your computer--coming from wherever--goes in one side of the EtherREGEN, and then you use a short cable from the other side of the EtherREGEN to your DAC-connected computer/endpoint.

 

[Note that above I just referred to the "output" side as the "other side."  We are avoiding the use of the terms "clean" and "dirty" side because the isolated clock/data/power domains of the unit are symmetrical--both sides are exceedingly low-noise/low-jitter.  But you do want the DAC-connected device to be connected alone on the side/domain opposite all the upstream equipment.]

 

Following the above, you can see that no disruption or replacement of any other network modem/router/switches you may have is necessary.  Once you attach the EtherREGEN in-line to your DAC-connected computer/streamer (or as such becomes more popular, DAC with Ethernet input), you are then free to utilize the other free ports on the EtherREGEN for other devices, just as you might with any switch.

 

Hope that all makes sense.

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

41 minutes ago, diecaster said:

The EtherREGEN, in my opinion based on what I know so far, isn't going to be all that great in your situation. You have a general purpose PC feeding music over USB to your DAC. That PC is going to be passing along all kinds of electrical noise to the DAC over the USB connection. The noise added over the PC's Ethernet connection is minor in comparison.

 

Where the EtherREGEN will really shine is when you have a purpose built endpoint with Ethernet in, like an ultraRendu or sms200, feeding your DAC. The EtherREGEN would go in between the endpoint and the rest of the network.

 

You may be right, and the EtherREGEN does not preclude the need or use of optimizations of the DAC-connected computer/streamer endpoint to isolate noise and produce better USB signal integrity for a DAC.  

Yet purpose-built Linux-based renderers such as you mention are not the only way to do that.  An ISO REGEN--with its true galvanic isolation, complete USB signal regeneration, ultra-low-jitter clocking, and 5VBUS replacement--will do a great deal for a typical laptop or desktop computer.  Just ask the thousands of people using REGENs.  And a lot of those users are even adding the ISO REGEN after their "purpose built endpoints" and reporting fine results. 

 

Still, I see your point, though I might have phrased it differently.  Indeed while the EtherREGEN will be a good value for the technology and performance, it will likely give much better "bang for the buck" to those whose DAC-attached computers are already enhanced to produce  good signal integrity from their USB port.

So yes, I'd probably advise someone like Horacio to start with an ISO REGEN (at just over half the EtherREGEN's price.), or to consider a low-power endpoint device such as a Rendu. 

[wwc]

When you day use a "short cable" between the EtherREGEN and DAC, how short do you mean?  Is 15' longer than optimal?   I thought it would be a good idea to locate the Switch 15' away from the magnetic fields of my Amp and Topaz iso transformer...

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, wwc said:

When you day use a "short cable" between the EtherREGEN and DAC, how short do you mean?  Is 15' longer than optimal?   I thought it would be a good idea to locate the Switch 15' away from the magnetic fields of my Amp and Topaz iso transformer...

 

Well the fields of your power amp and isolation transformer won't reach even 3-feet, so there is that. 

 

And yes, I would think one would be a little better off keeping the EtherREGEN to DAC-connected-endpoint connection shorter than 15', if only to avoid having such a long cable itself pick up stray leakage fields itself.  

 

But honestly we have no idea if people are going to hear differences with cable length.  There is plenty of innovation going on in the EtherREGEN which the skeptics are still going to question. I'm not going to hang our hat on Ethernet cable length and give them more to ridicule. 

[LewinskiH01]

19 hours ago, greenleo said:

Is your modem also a router?  For home users, switch should be connected to a router in general as the simplest solution. 

The Internet service provider's modem is set to bridged mode and connects to the router thru cat6. The Roon PC and HQPlayer PC also connect to the same router thru cat6 each. 

[LewinskiH01]

20 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

The EtherREGEN, in my opinion based on what I know so far, isn't going to be all that great in your situation. You have a general purpose PC feeding music over USB to your DAC. That PC is going to be passing along all kinds of electrical noise to the DAC over the USB connection. The noise added over the PC's Ethernet connection is minor in comparison.

 

Where the EtherREGEN will really shine is when you have a purpose built endpoint with Ethernet in, like an ultraRendu or sms200, feeding your DAC. The EtherREGEN would go in between the endpoint and the rest of the network.

I'm afraid you misunderstood. The general purpose PC running Roon doesn't feed the DAC. It streams thru cat6/router/cat6 to a purpose built audio PC (see my signature) to hqplayer, and that PC connects thru USB to the DAC.

[LewinskiH01]

19 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

You may be right, and the EtherREGEN does not preclude the need or use of optimizations of the DAC-connected computer/streamer endpoint to isolate noise and produce better USB signal integrity for a DAC.  

Yet purpose-built Linux-based renderers such as you mention are not the only way to do that.  An ISO REGEN--with its true galvanic isolation, complete USB signal regeneration, ultra-low-jitter clocking, and 5VBUS replacement--will do a great deal for a typical laptop or desktop computer.  Just ask the thousands of people using REGENs.  And a lot of those users are even adding the ISO REGEN after their "purpose built endpoints" and reporting fine results. 

 

Still, I see your point, though I might have phrased it differently.  Indeed while the EtherREGEN will be a good value for the technology and performance, it will likely give much better "bang for the buck" to those whose DAC-attached computers are already enhanced to produce  good signal integrity from their USB port.

So yes, I'd probably advise someone like Horacio to start with an ISO REGEN (at just over half the EtherREGEN's price.), or to consider a low-power endpoint device such as a Rendu. 

Post clarification of the misunderstanding above, it seems the etherregen would connect on the special side to the audio PC and the other 4 ports to router and Roon PC.

 

What's an estimated launch date? Won't hold you to it! 😀 Just to get an idea.

[greenleo]

5 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

The Internet service provider's modem is set to bridged mode and connects to the router thru cat6. The Roon PC and HQPlayer PC also connect to the same router thru cat6 each. 

If so, the switch should connect to ur router and the ROON and HQP PC should connect to the switch.

[Bones13]

On 3/6/2019 at 4:36 PM, LewinskiH01 said:

Post clarification of the misunderstanding above, it seems the etherregen would connect on the special side to the audio PC and the other 4 ports to router and Roon PC.

 

What's an estimated launch date? Won't hold you to it! 😀 Just to get an idea.

 

This is pretty much as I understand it. The etherRegen unit is designed to be the “last” ethernet connection to the music endpoint, be it an Ethernet streamer that feeds USB or SPDIF to a DAC (ex. ultraRendu), or some other Ethernet endpoint which converts music files, delivered via Ethernet, to analog audio out (ex. a DAC with built in Ethernet streamer). 

 

The point being that the etherRegen would clean up the Ethernet signal before the last connection. If there is USB after this streamer, it would need to be considered for cleaning separately.

 

I suspect they are still testing options, defining the final project before developing the price, before coming up a possible delivery window, which would allow a pre-order to be set up. I’m preferring to let them figure out how to make their version special. I have a functional switch that will do until then.

[thyname]

Hey Alex @Superdad any projected release date on etherRegen? Say April? 

 

Much appreciated!