EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 taking my wife to ski in Banff, Alberta for our 30th wedding anniversary

 

Gorgeous, been up there a few times, once with Lisa.

 

Happy anniversary!

[Jud]

8 hours ago, jos said:

How abouth this device, see link? Brand new by the way and promising!

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

AudioStream was quite positive in a review, about a year ago.

 

There are any number of Ethernet isolation transformers you can buy, and they do work to some extent for various types of noise, but to me they are a different type of product than the ER, not so much competing.

 

I agree that if folks want to discuss this other type of product, creating a dedicated thread would be a good idea.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, jos said:

A release date, please?

 

Who knows if there may be any one of a thousand things that cause even a firmly projected release date to slip?  My advice to manufacturers and developers is never to set release dates until the software can be downloaded or the hardware exists in quantity and can be ordered.  Otherwise it happens far too often that the release date is missed and people don't like that.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, jos said:

Agree, but we are a year later now after starting this thread by Uptone Audio. I believe it is also a way from companies to prevent people from buying something similar. I don't care to wait a little longer than promised, if they can't reach a dead-line for a viable reason, but in this case there is no horizon, beside: 'we are getting closer'. So, I want to know: how close? And I assume others too.

 

Yes, I can certainly see your point.  On the other hand, if you make your decision based on a projected release date and that slips....

 

So I am not sure there is one right answer here. I think everyone must make their own decisions.

[Jud]

28 minutes ago, Superdad said:

He said it was easily the most ambitious board he has ever placed with his pick'n'place machine (https://youtu.be/HbDLiXil6os ; the board in the video is not this one), as there are at least a couple hundred parts on it.

 

Watching the video, I thought two people who must have infinite patience are John and that machine's designer.

[Jud]

27 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

The clock on the B side has slightly worse phase noise than the clock on the B side because of this.

 

You're going to want to edit this (I think to "The clock on the A side has slightly worse phase noise than the clock on the B side because of this," if I follow correctly).

[Jud]

Nicely summarized. 🙂

[Jud]

2 hours ago, marce said:

Its SMD!!!

 

Well, the underside's a surface...  😉

 

Apologies for the OT, but just curious, have you ever seen two-sided SMD? If not, is there a very good reason not to do it?

[Jud]

29 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Those of us who use Euphony and cache the track before playing would have to wait hefty 2+ minutes before a DSD512 track is downloaded at 100 Mbps. But we would still buy an ER. I keep trying to make that point, but it keeps getting ignored with comments about streaming. Streaming and caching are two completely different strategies, and so far caching has sounded best to my ears (unless it's analog). 

 

Depending on the OS, there are players that cache the upsampled result before playing that don't require waiting. Audirvana does this up to DSD512 on Windows and DSD256 on MacOS. Just an FYI.

[Jud]

17 minutes ago, firedog said:

 

Basically, their claim is that there are no measurements to show improved output at the DAC end for any of these USB or ethernet clean up products: in other words, that all of this noise reduction doesn’t actually make any difference in the analog output at the DAC end. That if these products really make a difference, it would show up in the analog output. 

 

I think I hear a difference with some of these things (some I've liked, and some I haven't); I may well be wrong. But if I'm wrong, my mistaken opinion of how my system sounds is most pleasant!  

 

I always liked the joke about the distraught parents who take their child to the psychiatrist because she thinks she's a chicken. When the psychiatrist voices confidence in a quick cure, the parents hesitate, and when the psychiatrist looks at them quizzically, the father explains with some embarrassment, "We like the eggs."

 

I like the eggs.   

 

Meanwhile, though @Superdad started us off, perhaps we ought to get back to EtherREGEN....

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, sahmen said:

General question : Is what people are calling "switch" simply another name for a "router," at least in some of the cases?

 

I plan to position the EtherRegen between my Asus Router and my Metrum Acoustics Amber, which in turn feeds two DACs for two different rigs, the Yggdrasil A2 (via AES) and the Metrum Acoustics Onyx (via i2S) Ethernet,  I hope this works well.

 

(I have 2 IsoRegens that I am currently not using. If it is indeed an advantage to place one in the chain, I wouldn't know where to insert it for optimal results)

 

 

 

A switch and router usually perform different network functions. A router assigns local IP addresses and acts as a firewall between a home network and the Internet. It also usually has Wi-Fi capabilities.

 

A switch distributes Ethernet to multiple locations (something a router can also do).

[Jud]

In my chain the switch precedes the microRendu and the IsoREGEN is between the microRendu and the DAC, so there would be room for both the IsoREGEN and EtherREGEN in that configuration.

[Jud]

8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

What are the hurdles to shipping any right now

The reason I smiled is because this gave me an image of a couple hundred EtherREGEN customers (I’m one) thinking “Yes! What are the hurdles to shipping my unit *right now*?!”  🙂

[Jud]

5 hours ago, jos said:

You could also add a quick installation guide/card in front, with a step by step guide for installation. This because most people like to install it first and quick, and then start to read about the several technical aspects of the EtherREGEN. I have be doing this before for people upgrading computer networks and it works quite good.

Looks like that’s happening:

 

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

I'm going to also include a separate half-sheet "Quick-Start" insert.

[Jud]

26 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I’m leaving in the morning for a long weekend with my wife in the eastern Sierras

Please do sign in under “Mr. and Mrs. Pierre Delecto.”  😄

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Steady progress!   

Thermal compound/adhesive attachment of the heat sinks takes longer than anticipated, but my assistant is almost done with the first 200 boards.

My usually somewhat lazy 18 year old son has flashed the code on almost every board--that went fast--and is now performing the functional Q.C. tests on each board in the prescribed manner.

 

 

From the look on your assistant's face, I think when all this is done a spa visit on UpTone to massage that hand may be in order.   

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Sfine0 said:

Streaming CD quality music from Tidal sounds dull and lacking detail.

 

You might try Qobuz - seriously. I personally liked the sound quality better. How's your sound with local files (which I assume come through a system plugged into the same sort of wiring)?

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Blake said:

I understand the goal is that physical components upstream of the ER should matter less or not matter at all (cables, exotic power supplies, etc).   

 

However, I am curious whether music player/OS software upstream of the ER will still matter to the same degree it does now, for example, Audirvana, Euphony, Roon, etc. or Tidal vs Qobuz, etc.  

 

My hunch is that software will still matter, but will it be to the same degree as now?  Will software changes be more obvious or less obvious in terms of improving sound quality?  I look forward to experimenting myself as well as reading reports of others.    

 

I would suppose one aspect of player software that might conceivably continue to make a difference would be filtering options.

 

Aspects of player software designed to try to put less noise into the DAC's USB input, to the extent they were effective, have likely already been made less important by streaming setups through low-noise mini-computers.

 

Regarding streaming services like Qobuz vs. Tidal, notionally you would suppose that to the extent the EtherREGEN helps the system do a better job of presenting what's in the recording, better recordings should matter a bit more, and for me that's Qobuz.

[Jud]

If better shielded cables are reasonably inexpensive, why not try it/them, on the theory that at least it couldn’t hurt?

[Jud]

13 hours ago, jandersonhill said:

I spoke too soon, my EtherRegen isn't arriving today - it's stuck in Memphis and Fedex don't know why!

 

That may be worse than this:

 

 

[Jud]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:53 PM, EVOLVIST said:

Was it that people claimed that there was "noise" in their Ethernet, or studies showed that it was an imperfect system that needed to be remedied?

Well, in fact: I do recall years ago during the design and testing of the first (USB) REGEN, I’d managed to develop some sort of ground loop and hum in my system as it was at the time (I’ve since simplified the power side in particular and gone to cables with better resistance to EMI). A couple of Baaske Ethernet isolation transformers helped. So it’s evident Ethernet can carry electrical noise. And anything that can carry audible electrical noise can certainly carry noise low enough in level not to be audible over music, but enough to mask low level musical detail.

 

 I know Alex and John were aware of this, because it was part of my correspondence with them at the time.

 

Now this sort of transmitted EMI is not what the EtherREGEN is about, at least as I understand it. But I do recall John saying a few times on this forum that when you eliminate bigger sources of noise, lesser sources (such as those the ER was as I gather designed to deal with) become more evident. So at least the notion of noise over Ethernet was something John was contemplating several years ago, if not before.

[Jud]

26 minutes ago, nonesup said:

I simply hope that in my system, ER does not harden the trebels, that would not support it.

I imagine the system owners would disagree, but I got the impression that some who posted to this effect had speakers I would consider bright sounding. I think the ER helps bring out the sound of the rest of the system.

[Jud]

For what some people are spending on Ethernet cables, you can have an Optical Module and inexpensive optical Ethernet cable.

 

I personally have just plugged these into the system and everything sounds great:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-SlimRun-Cat6A-Ethernet-Patch/dp/B01BGV2TAA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=monoprice+slimrun+ethernet&qid=1574812177&sr=8-3
 

They replaced Blue Jeans tested and certified 6a, and everything sounded great with those too. Only reason I replaced them is that they’re heavy and stiff, and I figured the new light and flexible ones would torque the Ethernet connections less.

 

Thanks to @lmitche for turning me on to the Slimrun cables.

[Jud]

Happy to report that though the screws on my ER were snugly tightened, I loosened and retightened them without incident using a regular (non-medical) Torx  T-10 bit with an inexpensive set of smallish bits/screwdriver I have.

[Jud]

23 minutes ago, struts said:

 

Forza UpTone!

😀 We need T-shirts!