EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Ehsu]

11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The audio Endpoint should be on the opposite side from anything else. The way you have it here is probably the worst possible way to hook things up. The Endpoint is now susceptible to both leakage and clock effects from the NAS and external network.

@JohnSwenson what if I have more than 1 endpoint? 

[Ehsu]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I’m in bed with a couple of cracked ribs—from a stupid biking accident on Sunday—very painful, so I’ll be brief:

Oh no! It’s the worst pain and doctors can’t do anything to fix them! You have to let them heal naturally 😞. 

Well looking at the bright side, at least broken ribs won’t affect your hearing 🙂

[Ehsu]

On 7/30/2019 at 3:07 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The audio Endpoint should be on the opposite side from anything else. The way you have it here is probably the worst possible way to hook things up. The Endpoint is now susceptible to both leakage and clock effects from the NAS and external network.

 

@JohnSwenson and @Superdad. Maybe you guys missed my question earlier? I was wondering what would you suggest if I plan to plug in more than 1 end-points? Is the performance on the Gb sides inferior to the 10/100 side? My plan is to have Roon ROCK, home network, bedroom audio and Apple TV on the Gb side and my main music room streamer on the lone side to maximise main audio system performance. I will also use an audio linear PSU to power ER within a separate dedicated power circuit which is again separated from my main music system power circuit.   

[Ehsu]

@JohnSwenson Thanks John! I cant wait to get my hands on one of your first batch

[Ehsu]

5 hours ago, sicher said:

Hello,

 

every now and then I am tempted to upgrade my naim system. (-:

 

Some days ago my dealer recommended the AQ-Switch SE to me. Looking for more information I found the EtherREGEN which looks very promising and appealing to me. There’s much I like about it - from the philosophy behind it to the open discussion about its design and the obvious know how and experience of the developers. 

 

So I wonder if someone could please summarise the differences between those two.

 

Actually I am looking for arguments to wait for the EtherREGEN instead of going for the AQ-Switch SE right now. 😉

 

Thanks a lot,

Michael 

Hi Michael @sicher, I can give you some feedback once I receive my ER as I have a Naim rig including ND555 but you will have to wait until Jan next year because my order is in the second batch unfortunately. I am keen to hear if ER improves on PRaT and music engagement. That is " IF " you can wait that long :-). My experience tells me network switch before my ND555 affect the sound so much that I got much more dynamic, open and faster sound after I upgraded its PS. The improvement was so big that shocked me and my Naim dealer. In short, I am pretty sure UpTone ER will improve the sound further compared to my existing non-audiophile Netgear + LPS. But the question is, which area or direction will it take me to? Hope its not tube kind of sound....

 

Cheers

 

Eddie

[Ehsu]

Hi Alex, I am confused with ground arrangement after seeing all these questions and answers. Signal ground is a subject I am not very familiar with. I have a dual output Keces PS so it has floating ground according to your previous comment a while ago. I am planning to power both home network switch and ER by that PS and both go into the A side. Shall I use the ground pin on the ER? And where should I connect that ground cable at the other end? To the pre-amp or the wall socket? Usually with turntable, you connect the ground to preamp, right? Same case with ER? However, I use Naim gears and their signal ground all goes to the source which is their streamer in my case. And in my case, I intend to feed Naim streamer from the B side of ER. But somehow I think this is not what you wanted?

Sorry if I asked a stupid question here :-)

[Ehsu]

Hi Alex; Thanks for your quick reply. And sorry for my typo. Yes, my dual output linear PS powers both the ER and the home network switch that goes into the A side. 

30 minutes ago, Superdad said:

On the contrary: If your Naim streamer is the box connected to your DAC, then the 'B' side port--on the other side of our ADIM™ moat--is the ideal place to connect it. 

 

 

The point of the question is ground. In a Naim system, all Naim components share one ground at " source " ie, my streamer. So if I connect the ER ground screw to Naim preamp then it means that I will bridge the A side to the B side through Naim preamp? Doesnt it defeat the purpose of all the isolation work you have done?

 

Cheers

[Ehsu]

@k-man thanks for the advise but the whole reason for getting a multi output linear ps is because I ran out of wall socket and do not want noisy switch mode near my system. I ran 3 dedicated power spurs into my music room so there is no noisy electronics in the chain. 

[Ehsu]

@Superdad Thanks so much for yours and John's time to reply my question. Please enjoy your well deserved holidays and come back re-energised, ready for production!

 

@k-man and @Indydan: Not sure why you guys think my simple question not related to ER or unimportant? I asked the question because Alex has talked about this a few times here and also in the instruction manual. I would not be bothered to ask the question if Alex had not insisted that ER should be earthed to minimise current leakage and using the ground screw if using a PS with floating ground. So I simply asked where best to connect the ER ground because my Naim has an unique earth arrangement. Is asking a technical question too much on this forum now? Are we suppose to only ask about ethernet cables or A/B sides here, there were hundreds of them before..... 

[Ehsu]

12 minutes ago, octaviars said:

@Ehsu I think the most common way to ground the eR will be to ground it at the protective earth where your PSU is connected (this is how the Mean Well smsp has it's internal -0V connected to ground). 

 

I dont know exactly how Naim does the ground but I think it is a good thing to start with the ground from where the PSU is connected.

The ground and -0V is connected internally in eR and is on the A-side so connecting the ground to something that is connected to the B-side (your streamer) would make a path that might not be so good, at least that is how I think.

 

 

 

 

@octaviars Thank you so much for your suggestion. I would prefer this as well but was wondering what would UpTone guys recommend. ER user guide suggested ground connection to the audio system which I thought it contradict ER's isolation intention in the Naim ground arrangement. My house power supply is designed with audio system in mind from earth peg to dedicated power spurs. I even have a 3 phase supply into my house and 1 phase is dedicated to audio and visual equipments to keep other household electric pollution away. So I would very much prefer running ER earth to the wall. 

Can I simply connect the other end of earth wire from ER to a power plug ( connect only the earth pin ) and plug into a wall socket ( perhaps the same outlet as PS )?

[Ehsu]

@octaviars I'm so glad to be talking to you and appreciate you sharing your knowledge and ideas here. We have the same concept and a similar setup so your input here is very helpful. However, I will be using all 4 A-side ports because I will connect my second music system and cinema system to it as well.

I dont know why so many audiophile underestimate the importance of power mains and proper system ground. Its the foundation of everything.... My mate is an electrician and audiophile so we have done a lot of listening with different types ( or thickness ) of mains cable and earth wires. We concluded 6mm mains cable is the best in our systems.  Tried to run earth wire in the different direction and used thicker than standard 2mm earth wire and that sucked the life out of music. I was very sceptical about all those things until I tried! 

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

You mention things like digital cables etc depleting bass, this has nothing to do with bits being changed. It is all about some form of noise (usually either voltage noise or phase noise) hitching a ride along with the digital data (the bits) and getting into the DAC. This causes very small distortions in the analog signal which somehow cause the human perceptual system to hear "depleted bass". It really isn't depleted bass, if you measure the actual audio signal the frequency response doesn't change, but those specific small distortions cause your perceptual system to hear it that way. (there is way more to this than just bass). THAT is what the EtherREGEN is all about. Getting rid of those noise components before they reach your DAC.

Hi John;

 

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge here. I am wondering if better shielded copper LAN cables upstream into A side makes EtherRegen's job easier?

The logic here is that EtherRegen would have an easier job to filter out all the noise if there is less noise RF etc.. got into A side cables. If the answer is yes to my logic above, then wouldn't it improve sound quality further at outputs?

 

Cheers

 

Eddie

[Ehsu]

27 minutes ago, Dutch said:

The whole purpose of the EtherREGEN is to greatly reduce effects coming from the upstream system.

 

@Dutch Exactly why I asked the question because John Swenson said the purpose of the ER is to " greatly reduce effects from upstream system" so I was wondering wouldnt it be better off to have " less " noise upstream for EtherRegen to deal with? Say ER can reduce 90% of noise from upstream but imagine if your upstream system generate much less noise to begin with.... 

 

[Ehsu]

I assume there is no one cancel their order in the first batch then?

[Ehsu]

Yay!! Christmas has arrived early!

[Ehsu]

7 minutes ago, cheetah said:

My EtherRegen is quite hot to touch. It is not so hot that one has to lift his fingers immediately. The unit is placed on open area with nothing around to hinder ventilation.  is it normal?

+1. Apparently it is normal. I had my concern too.

[Ehsu]

7 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

If you are NOT using an external clock then using an end to end tied shielded cable should be fine. It looks like the only difference to that is if you have an external clock. The end to end tied shielded cable MAY cause a problem with that.

 

John S.

I just tested all my fancy ethernet cables with a multimeter and they are ALL tied shielded at both ends! They include Audioquest Cinnamon, Supra Cat8 and various Chord Cables. I heard Cat7 & Cat8 standards require both ends to be shielded. So are you suggesting to use Cat5 or Cat6 only? Is this shielding suggestion relevant if ER is grounded?  

[Ehsu]

6 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

 Are you using an external clock? If NOT use whatever you wish. If you ARE using an external clock you MAY have an issue with those end to end tied cables.

 

I'm not TELLING you what to do. I'm stating where there MAY be an interaction that might cause a decrease in sound quality. It is entirely up to you to try different cables and listen for your self. If your expensive cables sound the best, stick with them. If something that is not shield tied from end to end sounds better, use that.

 

All the above is related to the B side, the ground screw etc is just for the A side.

 

John S.

Great!! I am not using an external clock. It can be confusing reading people's comments on the forum 😞 Thank you John!