EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

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Can’t wait for it and the first reviews!

 

And I’m sure we’re all going to enjoy the stories of the people who will link two or more ETHERregens in series using the ‘clean’ output port! ?

 

Happy anniversary Alex and enjoy the ski trip with the mrs.!

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1 hour ago, jos said:

Thanks, but I was meaning the additional staterskit with the switch inside.

 

It’s been mentioned several times, it’s the TRENDnet TEG-S51SFP which one can buy at any shop for cheap. The starter kit with switch, fiber optic cable and SFP module is just there to take out the guess work for people who are computer illiterate but still want to venture beyond their simple CD players.  

[Dutch]

What many call modems are often bridges. What many call routers are are often bridge, switch, WiFi accesspoint and router all-in-ones. Some call the all-in-one routers modems etc. Complete chaos!

 

In a nutshell (and not 100% correct let alone complete which is not the point here):

Bridge: to ‘bridge’ data from one type of network to an other e.g. cable/DSL to ethernet (layer 1+2)

Switch: to transfer ethernet frames from one port on that switch to an other (layer 2)

Router: to transfer IP packets from one network segment or subnet to an other (layer 3)

 

You’ll need a router for Internet communications but not necessarily for a home network if all your devices are in one segment/subnet (e.g. 192.168.1.0/24).

 

You’ll need a switch if you want more than two devices communicating with each other in a (‘hub and spoke’) network.

 

You’ll need a WiFi accesspoint if you want to connect a device to your ethernet network using radio. Most WiFi routers (with built in switches and/or WAN-LAN routers and sometimes ‘modems’) can also be purely used as access points.

 

One can connect multiple switches together, if the devices connected to those switches are operating in the same network segment/subnet, as long as one doesn’t create loops.

 

[Dutch]

12 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

My preference would be for my streamer to NOT be part of the network in any way.

 

Why? If you want it to have Internet access for Tidal and want to control it using an iPad/laptop you’ll need to make it a part of your network.

 

Of course you could configure a more advanced network using multiple subnets and thus -logically- separate your streamer from other devices. They all need to come together though at the same router/modem which connects your home to the Internet. If you don;t want that you’ll need an additional cable/DSL/fiber connection in your home.

 

If you want to ‘isolate’ your streamer from your network or better said provide it with an ethernet signal with optimal signal integrity get the etherREGEN and connect the streamer to the isolated port and one of the other etherREGEN ports to any other switch in your home network.

[Dutch]

If I had a white board I’d explain it to you in five minutes. Using ‘chat’ makes it quite a bit harder.

[Dutch]

@DelsFan, I think you take the ‘isolation’ part too literal. The purpose of the etherREGEN is to provide devices the best quality ethernet connection Uptone knows. Since it is a network consisting of multiple devices full isolation is not what we want since then it is no longer a network. We need those devices communicating with each other and through our Internet router/modem with the Internet. Your iPad is most probably communicating with your streamer using WiFI and your streamer has access to the Internet for Tidal.

 

So in your case I’d forget the word isolation and just think about what you want from a functional viewpoint. I’m thinking you want to keep everything as it is right now since it works like you want but also want to increase the sound quality of your streamer by optimizing it’s connection to your network. That’s what the etherREGEN is designed to do.

 

The etherREGEN is a switch and you can connect multiple switches together. So you can connect the etherREGEN to any other switch (a device with say three, four or more ethernet ports) in your home. It’s also possible to take the ethernet cable from your streamer (or is it using WiFi?) and plug that into the etherREGEN and add a new cable which you connect to the isolated port on the etherREGEN and your streamer.

 

So no need to get additional Internet connections into your home or physically or logically separate networks. It’s an add-in solution.

 

——

NB. There’s Uptone with the etherREGEN but to be fair there’s also Sonore which has a different solution which they say is effective as well. They create fully galvanically isolated network connections using fiber optic cables (still ethernet) and their ‘opticalModule’. That’s different from what’s discussed above or in this topic. What’ll be the best sounding solution will differ from case to case and may differ as well when compared in the same situation. Time will tell what’ll be the best solution.

 

 

[Dutch]

15 hours ago, DelsFan said:

Sadly I'm not a networking person, so I have a question.  I use my iPad as a "remote control" for my DMS-500 Streamer - the iPad communicates with the Streamer via the wireless network.  I was hoping to isolate "everything" from the Streamer (to the extent of: I considered a "dedicated" internet supply with its own modem that serviced nothing but the Streamer) but it seems that isn't possible.

 

However, it seems I need to utilize the wireless network in order to use the Streamer (with the iPad, because using the Streamer's remote is cumbersome).  Will the EtherREGEN, used as shown in the diagram below, allow the wireless router (and the iPad) to talk to the Streamer?  I guess my question is: will the wireless router allow communication back "out" through its Ethernet "In" port?  Thanks very much for your assistance; if I need to go another direction I might as well start thinking about it now! 

 

I guess plan B would be to place the wireless router between the Modem and the EtherREGEN ?  Coming from an analog background, my instinct is to keep everything possible out of the path between the Modem and the Streamer!  Thus the layout shown in the diagram below, where the path from the box on the side of my house to the Streamer is as direct as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Delsfan, this setup will absolutely work but you can view any ethernet port as both in and output port. You may confuse the single separate clock domain ‘isolated’ port on the etherregen as an out port as that port is advised to be connected to the ethernet device closest to your DAC. Functionally though it’ll operate as any other port on an etherregen or any other switch.

[Dutch]

Regarding @DelsFan’s question, I had been assuming the modem is also the Internet router (and firewall, switch). In my country this is near to 100% the case. If not Lmitche is right and this won’t work. If it’s really just a modem bridging cable to ethernet than absolutely the router has to come directly ‘behind’ the modem.

 

I remember similar questions perhaps it was you (delsfan) too. It’s quite difficult to advise online when not knowing what function each device has. Perhaps it’s easiest to get someone over or open a separate topic specifiying in detail the types of devices you have, what functions they perform and how they’re connected now.

 

Communications between wireless devices and wired devices are not subject to filtering/security when the wireless router is in the same network/subnet as the switches for the wired network. So there has to be an ethernet link between the wireless router (LAN) and the switches.

[Dutch]

😂

 

[Dutch]

5 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Here is a typical post that appears--oddly from another small manufacturer--over on a "science-based" forum, in a thread devoted to attacking the whole concept of the EtherREGEN, or anything related to improvements in this realm

That, I guess, same small manufacturer (who is now on my “never buy anything from”-list ) is writing the same rubbish on the AU/NZ edition of the Stereonet Forum..

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1 hour ago, sicher said:

Which power cable do I need (for Austria)? Which plug goes into the PS? Is it one on the photos attached? 2 or 3 pins?

It’s the three pin cable you need (IEC15) with the standard SMPS Uptone delivers.

 

1 hour ago, sicher said:

I think I read somewhere here that no fancy LAN cable is necessary. Am I right? I just thought about using my MeiCord opal. Or should I get one of the (hyped) audioquest cables? 😉

IIRC John wrote about the cable going to the etherREGEN which should not matter much. Between the etherregen and the device closest to the DAC I think the cable will still matter for preserving the signal integrity. Just how much, if at all, is topic of discussion and likely varies with each setup. Experimentation, I’m afraid is key here.

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@octaviars, it appears you may have read the thread below in which power saving features were mentioned by Miska as a good thing for SQ. I’d like to add here that most tuning/optimization guides I’ve read for DAW’s and music servers/streamers suggest to disable power saving features of the NIC. It could as well be a good thing if these features are not enabled in the etherREGEN.

 

For me it’s almost a ‘pity’ the etherREGEN is unmanaged when it has the feature to be managed (I love to tweak a bit :)) but of course I can understand Uptone Audio’s decision here.

 

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11 hours ago, Ehsu said:

Hi John;

 

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge here. I am wondering if better shielded copper LAN cables upstream into A side makes EtherRegen's job easier?

The logic here is that EtherRegen would have an easier job to filter out all the noise if there is less noise RF etc.. got into A side cables. If the answer is yes to my logic above, then wouldn't it improve sound quality further at outputs?

 

Cheers

 

Eddie

I *think* John answered that here

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ehsu said:

 

@Dutch Exactly why I asked the question because John Swenson said the purpose of the ER is to " greatly reduce effects from upstream system" so I was wondering wouldnt it be better off to have " less " noise upstream for EtherRegen to deal with? Say ER can reduce 90% of noise from upstream but imagine if your upstream system generate much less noise to begin with.... 

 

I understand, did not know if you read that post.
 

And yes, if something is not fully blocked (like EM noise when using fiber optics) the next best thing is attenuation. So, you’re right if it reduces noise by say 60dB it’s still not zero and the outcome is better when there’s less noise to begin with. Of course the question is,mhoe much or how little is audible.

 

I can’t wait for it to be in everyone’s hands, we’ll probably only then learn how effective it is in several different use cases and setups.

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, Ricardo007 said:

Better to habe 3 dedicated switches linked to each server nas streamer on one side all sws connected to a router non wireless like ubiquti edgerouter 6p .

One of the switch is etherregen for streamer. 2 other cheap cheap pro cisco 2960. Use sfp port on router reconfigured as lan port to link with etherregen with startech 80km sfp module monomode fiber

See i have my plan...

Looks like you don’t really believe Uptone when they say anything upstream should matter way less. 😉😂

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

Will it be FedEx that does the international shiping?

You chose the preferred shipper when ordering.  If you didn’t change anything; the default shipper was Fedex.

[Dutch]

There weren’t any malfunctioning boards @Superdad? Don’t know why I thought about this but that could have disappointed some users with high order numbers in batch 1 if you didn’t reserve some ‘spares’. So hope they were all alright! 
 

Enjoy your weekend, looks like you’ve deserved it! 😉

[Dutch]

Ach, na 1,5 jaar kan die ene week er nog wel bij! 😉😁

 

(After 1.5 years of waiting, what’s another week!)

[Dutch]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

FedEx is fast, so assuming no delays in customs, our overseas friends should be receiving their EtherREGENs be early next week.

Fedex has scheduled the delivery to me (in The Netherlands) for tomorrow..if they make it that is incredibly fast! 
 

Thank you Alex and your employees for your hard work! 👍

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20 minutes ago, nonesup said:

Emile de Taiko audio, has just received her EtherRegen and has posted a very positive review on WBT.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-uptone-audio-etherregen-audiophile-switch.29106/page-3#post-608363.  

This should also be (according to ASR) a fool who does not make measurements and only trusts his ears.

Thanks for posting. Though I’m not sure it’s Emile’s personal feedback since he wrote it’s the first feedback from Hong Kong. I suspect it’s from one of his customers.

[Dutch]

At home all day, except for one hour and of course right then the delivery guy stopped by! 😪😁

 

So I made a new appointment, Fedex will come again Monday morning.

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Shall I tell you about the 3 JS-2s that are stuck in a Chinese customs cage for 8 weeks without movement towards our mainland China dealer? 

No, that would be severely off topic here in an ER thread and also before you know it it turns into a political discussion since of course Trump is to blame for those delays. 😉😂

[Dutch]

A general FYI, the metal shields of the Supra ethernet cables can, with some care, easily be pulled/pried/peeled of with some pliers. Do it on one side or both of course. I did this earlier this year on just one side to ‘isolate’ a device in my home office/study.

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53 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Did it make an audible difference?

No idea! 😁 I just did it ‘for peace of mind’ and it was just one of a number of commonsense changes (all related to grounding) I did all at once.

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9 minutes ago, Bricki said:

The reason I ask is just because I still prefer the Supra cat8... It has better layering than the Audioquest Pearl and both have a bigger soundstage than a standard no name 1 meter long $3 cat 6 cable... Not sure that I want to dismember my Supra cat8 cables 😕

I understand but really don’t know. Also your application is very different than mine (in my case this cable is used way upstream near my DSL modem/router after I upgraded it).
 

I just gave this as a tip for anyone who has the cable and had not thought about it. Perhaps use some electrical tape around the connector to test first.