EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Iving]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

[245 boards (with 80 allotted to our Hong Kong and UK dealers]

[So all of the first run of EtherREGEN will ship to clients the first half of November.]

[9:00 a.m. Tuesday date when the "AddToCart" button will go live]

[I am aiming for launch day to be October 8th.]

[Once the first 155 available units are pre-sold (probably within the first couple of hours)]

 

Is a keen UK customer best advised to order from a UK dealer or direct online as USA customers? Given high demand, is one alternative more likely to secure a unit than the other? If UK customers are obliged to deal with UK dealers, please advise info inc. dealership(s), release dates and order routes. Thank you!

[Iving]

1 hour ago, simorag said:

Stupid incoming question alert, sorry in advance 😳

 

Will the EtherREGEN provide a sound quality benefit even when playing local files?

 

I play local files ONLY ... as in PC > REDNET D16 AES > DAC. I'm looking forward with some confidence to trying an EtherRegen such: PC > EtherRegen > REDNET D16 AES > DAC. (Enquiries suggest 100 Mbps will work.)

 

I guess any offline system might benefit where the music signal passes along a network/ethernet cable.

 

(If local music doesn't, what is the SQ delta unplugging your upstream internet connection ...?)

[Iving]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

The order needs to be complete--including the payment--before it registers in our system.

 

Will international shipping (charges) be automatic? We can just order and pay without making bespoke enquiries?

Thanks

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No "bespoke" inquiries necessary! 

Overseas buyers are given a choice of 3 different shipping methods during checkout:

1) Insured International Priority Mail (that's U.S. Postal Service handing off to destination country customs office with final delivery made by your local post) -- $34; Typically 7~12 business days.

2) FedEx Express (FedEx has their own "custom cage" in many countries and either their own or a private-contract final delivery; Prior to delivery they will direct contact recipient for collection of local taxes and small brokerage fee.) -- $34; Typically 3~5 business days.

3) Express Mail International (EMS) -- $63; This is also postal service at both ends; Typically 5~8 business days.

 

No FedEx to Russia.

Canadians get just two choices: Priority Mail or FedEx -- $25 for either.  USA is generally via Priority Mail for $9, with other options presented as well.

 

All of the above rates are below our actual cost--sometimes by several dollars--especially with the  insurance we buy for every package (to our replacement cost only, not to full retail).

 

[Also, unlike some small audio firms I see, we do not add fees for use of credit card or PayPal. We absorb those.  Actually, we prefer--but do not require--that overseas people pay with a credit card as PayPal charges us 4.4% for international transactions--that's $30(!) we pay out of a $640+$34 shipping EtherREGEN sale.  Credit card is 2.9% fee, so at $20, that's a $10 savings to us.]

 

Regarding declaration for customs:

We are very experienced with international shipping and document requirements.  Every EtherREGEN shipped to outside the USA will have two copies of a commercial invoice declaring the item as a "Home use network switch" with HTS harmonized tariff code of 8517.18.

[We do not publicly discuss the customs value we declare. It is not full value. It is a fixed amount, so do not make special requests for crazy-low valuation. Nor can we declare any package as "gift" or "sample."]

 

Thorough. Brilliant. Amazing. Thank you

[Iving]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

 

Funny, they must think that we spent nearly two years--and a lot of $$--designing this expensive-to-produce switch simply as a money-grab. I can think of a lot of easier ways to make money! Remember too, we sell our products with a 30-day, money-back guarantee.  So the risk is more ours...

 

mkawa's only been on ASR 2 minutes and already he's the most stridently dismissive pistol-packer there ...

lol

better than TV

I miss Rob

[Iving]

I guess it's nail-biting for all of us pending "listening impressions".

With hundreds of EtherREGENs in the pipeline, there will be just as many variations in equipment permutations from which SQ effects will be reported.

Inevitably, cable alternatives will form part of that rich informational tapestry. To exclude cables from EtherREGEN experiences would be preposterous (literally - since EtherREGEN requires at least two).

I, for one, will be trying out a few combinations. I've already shielded the hell out of a couple of .75m AQ Cinnamons (with a drain option) in anticipation. I'll be trying a cheapo in their stead by way of A-B. If I hear an improvement either way then there *is* one. I need no narrower (or more theoretical) empiricism.

Even the most privileged amongst us cannot explore all possibilities. We are limited by time if nothing else! Seasoned and not-so-seasoned audiophiles, including myself, will be reading with glee - wondering what bang-for-dollar improvements we could engineer in our own systems based on the experiences of *others* which - in the scientific sense - we can extrapolate with only limited justification.

This isn't religion. No-one has to be right about anything. No-one *is* right about anything.

I do hope the EtherREGEN is as resounding a success as we all hope.

[Iving]

At the risk of drawing an unfair OT strike, I am sure @Ehsu has a point. I am so convinced from prior experience that - since, as a generic proposition, short and/or shielded ethernet cables yield better SQ than long and/or cheap - I have manually shielded a handful of AQ Cinnamons in preparation. It's not difficult to do. AQ have confirmed to me wrt their RJ/E ethernet cables "We do not tie the drains on the input #1 end. Only on the #2 end, destination end. This helps reduce overall system noise for better audio performance." I don't change the underlying integrity of the Cinnamons. I wrap them up and down with Aluminium cloth tape (Dewal 407 is best/ideal - if you can get it), then wrap with copper braid, then Aluminium tape again - before adding heat shrink over. It's easy to add a drain. I have three of these for PC > Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-S > EtherREGEN > RedNet D16 AES [>DAC via AES - and I don't play music streamed from the internet]. This does create a challenge for the EtherREGEN which I have seen mentioned once here at AS - it is a light box and heavy cables without good management will insist too brutally on their own way. It's a straightforward matter to mould the cables with a heat gun as heatshrink is applied - or afterwards provided a dressing braid has not yet been fixed. I've even engineered a new bespoke shelf for my EtherREGEN. Added to Christmas, and our UK General Election, the excitement is almost unbearable ;-).

[Iving]

16 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

I wouldn't bother and just get some Blue Jeans Cat 6 or 6a. Blow away the Cinnamon and Melco cables in my system. 

 

My experience is exactly and unequivocally the reverse. I don't have BJ any longer as the result. What's more, shielding improved the AQs. Very much worth both the exchange and the effort.

[Iving]

39 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Sounds good. I have a couple of short lengths of Cinnamon I'll be selling - always sounded thin in my set up, and the recent addition of BJC just right, but each person's need is different. Won't hijack the thread any further. 

 

I don't alter the manuf. product wrt the plugs.

"Thin" - my oh my that was the BJC problem - with "bright" and "banshee". Probably not all the BJC's fault ...

[Iving]

25 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

OT, but so sorry to hear of this.  

 

To be clear we are talking about Tubelover2 aka rb2013 - I think there is another "Tubelover" here.

Rob/Bob was a great audiophile pioneer/contributor and is greatly missed.

[Iving]

10 minutes ago, RickyV said:

You mean  Rob for usaudiomart forum?

 

Yes - https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1465&p=12173#p12136

[Iving]

5 hours ago, HeeBroG said:

Hi All.

 

The ER sounds like a fantastic product for server/endpoint/NAS setups and/or for those who stream music.

 

If I understand correctly, the B side is attached to the PC closest to the DAC and isolates upstream noise.

 

I would get one as well but I don't stream and plan to use a single PC setup very soon as top notch power supplies can be expensive.

My PC/NUC would only be connected to ethernet to control playback.

 

Is there anyone out there using ER in a single computer setup (eg. Euphony Stylus) who only plays local files attached to the local computer (ie. not NAS)?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

you may want to review my system - see signature

 

local playback only

no internet streaming

single windows pc (controlled by remote desktop from listening position)

dante / focusrite

etherREGEN!

 

(i don't use apple products and have no experience with euphony stylus)

 

[Iving]

2 hours ago, nonesup said:

There are already quite a few users who, together with the description of improvements in bass, spatiality, clarity, also report a certain roughness in trebels.  This besides worrying, because I hate it, I find it incomprehensible;  How does the digital hash increase if we are decreasing the phase noise?

 

I empathise because my life's work seems to be accounted for banishing "digititis".

I offer four morsels:

1. The cable *after* the ER can affect "roughness" (UTP) and "hash" (STP tied both ends). I am OK with an AQ (STP tied destination only).

2. Most of my generic digital pain so far as I can tell is accounted for by electrical noise. I say this because I can mitigate it with isolation transformers, Isotek strips, shunts etc - and I can tweak these endlessly - although I do usually settle down with something optimal.

3. This is true even with the ER (which has powered components both before and after it).

4. The EtherREGEN does stuff other components don't. Its implementation can produce weird effects (let's just say altering the relative emphasis of upstream and downstream SQ factors) which may be compounded with the burn-in dimension - but which effects make sense in the end.

After 200 hours + my ER is sounding as sweet as anything right across the frequency range.

No nastiness at all.

Tonally profound too.

I had to work to get where I am tweaking and allowing cooking.

I can't fault it today.

It's an awesome device.

I know as a fact of my experience that the ER is the *solution* to my digititis problem.

In summary - your problem is probably not the ER.

I say this with some humility (which I can summon) since I don't know how the ER engages with your system vs. mine.

I am no technician - I can't provide "bottom up" accounting for my trial-and-error triumphs.

🙂

 

[Iving]

1 minute ago, nonesup said:

I don't know if I didn't express myself correctly since English is not my language, but "I don't have any problem with the digital hash and ER" simply because I'm in the second batch and I still don't have it.  
It simply catches my attention that there are several users who describe a certain tightening of trebels with ER and that is something I would never have expected.  For the rest, if you look at my system, you will see the effort I have made in reducing noise: from the ethernet cable that goes from the AqVOX Switch to the Melco Server, which is not even close to any AQ (I have several and one Diamond of  1.5 m to the sale), up to LPS for Router and Switch, Shunyata Denali and the best Entreq boxes and cables.  
I simply hope that in my system, ER does not harden the trebels, that would not support it.

Best

 

lol yes you seemed to be talking from experience

look forward to your listening impressions eventually!

[Iving]

8 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Did you decide to try the ER? Since the recommendation is for the ER to be placed as close in the ethernet chain to the DAC as possible and it would be inserted after your source, which uses ethernet to connect to your Rednet DDC, then it seems to me to be a very good candidate to try.

 

I still have to scratch my head when considering how few here have adopted AOIP. For reasons other than SQ I moved to Audiolinux however it has taken a lot of time and additional expense for me to be as pleased with the sound...or at least as I remember it 🙂

 

Let us know if you try the ER.

 

Hi Paul,

Yes - [as mentioned briefly on the Head-Fi AOIP thread] my system is now PC > ER > D16 > DAC.

I could tell immediately that the ER is a worthwhile device. My listening impressions are here on AS.

2-300 hrs burn-in revealed further improvement.

Firmware update intriguing since first impressions were that original was better. I relent now.

Cables especially post-ER do make a difference.

Better without a Cisco switch or anything else in the way.

Better grounded (experiment!) even if not required per Uptone.

I wonder what Bob would have made of it but he had moved on anyway.

I wonder about @mhamel too ... and johnjen and the other aficionados on Head-Fi.

I recommend the EtherREGEN. It's a great little number. Bang for buck easy satisfaction.

Yes - surprised I haven't seen more on Dante/RedNet combined with EtherREGEN.

I am NOT going back to USB!

I'm more or less done [!] ... just gonna get an SR7 [19V rail for PC via HDPLEX DC-ATX 800W] and use a 12V rail for the ER.

(Scratching my own head about DC & ATX cables tho' - may make my own or use Ghent.)

Come back. You know you want to 😉