EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[vortecjr]

39 minutes ago, rickca said:

@superdad and @JohnSwenson can you please explain how EtherREGEN and Sonore systemOptique work together?  Some use cases would be helpful.  I'm not clear whether I need both products or just EtherREGEN.  I realize that Jesus hasn't yet announced all the systemOptique components.

The short answer is the UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a switch with optical Ethernet and cable Ethernet ports, the Sonore opticalRendu is a renderer or endpoint with an optical Ethernet port, and the Sonore opticalModule is a simple bidirectional optical Ethernet to/from cable Ethernet converter. The usage of these alone or in combination with each other depends on what you want to accomplish. 

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, Jiffi32 said:

@Superdad I suppose its too late to ask for 2 optical cages on the ether regen?

Agree...please add a second SFP port on the EtherRegen!

[vortecjr]

If you are having issues sleeping a comfortable reclining chair my might do the trick. Get well soon!

[vortecjr]

38 minutes ago, Adyc said:

For option 2, I would replace OM with ER. If what Alex says is true on the power supply of ER, one doesn’t need to buy an expensive LPS for ER. However, a lot of reports say OM improves with better LPS. So the total cost is actually cheaper for ER.  Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

 

That’s what I’m going to do.

 

We have the opticalModule with a SGC linear supply on our website for 395 USD. That is 240 USD less than a ER which will be 640 USD.

 

The PS on the ER does not matter...famous last words:) 

 

When Alex sends me an ER to try I'll be powering it with my linear supply.

[vortecjr]

13 hours ago, Adyc said:

Second, the technology is much more sophisticated for ER.

This is an incorrect assumption. The A side of the ER is an ethernt format converter run from LT linear regulators and femto series Crystek oscillator. This is the design of an opticalModule is as well. The A side and B side of the ER is separated by the moat via IC circuits. The opticalModule and opticalRendu are separated via fiber optic cable providing 100% galvanic isolation. The B side of the ER has a switch chip run from LT linear regulators and the femto series Crystek oscillator on the A side. The switch chip drives the SFP and RJ45 ports which pollute each other when utilized together. The opticalRendu has the same switch chip run from LT linear regulators, but has its own femto series Crystek oscillator. No other ports are provided on the opticalRendu to avoid the obvious pollution from other connected devices and because it's not necessary for an endpoint. 

[vortecjr]

Congratulations to Alex and John on an impressive product launch! 

[vortecjr]

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

You have our 'A' side and 'B' side backwards Jesus.

More importantly, what you are missing is that the EtherREGEN is about much more than simply galvanic isolation.  The active differential  isolators and the differential flip-flops are the heart of the design.  They block the passage of deterministic jitter--coming in from upstream connections and generated by the ('A' side) chips themselves. John will write about this and show measures of it, but these are second-order low-frequency (<100KHz) effects which show up on the power and ground planes and inside the chips themselves. It is common-mode stuff, so the only way to get rid of it is with differential isolation and differential reclocking flops.

 

Despite the opticalModule having some parts in common with the EtherREGEN (I'm avoiding saying "borrowing" despite John having begun the EtherREGEN 6 months prior to the oM ), our products are quite different from each other.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

 

Sorry I got them mixed up:)  

 

I understand about the differential aspects of the design. However, you can't be suggesting that a fiber optic cable can transmit common mode stuff.

 

John uses the parts he uses because he likes the specs and the company provides support. Having familiarity with a chip might have something to do with it as well. However, you can't discount all the work that went into the opticalRendu in regards to the switch chip. So the who is borrowing what comment is really silly. I was responding to the member suggesting the ER was much more sophisticated. The fact is that these different products share a lot of the same tech.

 

Anyway, congrats again!     

 

[vortecjr]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Use of an external reference clock is absolutely NOT required to get stellar performance from the EtherREGEN. 

I agree with you. However, the silly thread will say you need two ERs in series each with external reference clocks in order to get good sound. Also, for good measure the silly thread will say you need two linear power supplies that you have to wait over a year to get or it just won't sound quite right. I'm just saying... 

[vortecjr]

I prepared this diagram (approved by the heads of state) to help explain how to properly hook up a Rendu to an EtherREGEN. 

 

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, incus said:

This is exactly what I plan to do with the two eRegens I ordered so I will report back if there is any difference vs. one vs. no eRegen.  I also plan to test various power supplies - linears, ultracap, battery, wall-wart . As well as SOtM ethernet cables vs. generic Cat6 vs. Aqvox. (And yes I do have different optical cages and cables to compare!) I will do these tests, then I pass judgement. I believe that is the scientific method...

It's a lot of work to change only one thing at a time with all those variables. You will more likely than not have to make different tests depending on what you accomplish. Also, as soon as you introduce your opinion into the mix the scientific method goes out the door because others can't repeat the test to verify your results. It really just comes down to what you prefer.  

[vortecjr]

10 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Well, my intended use of an EtherRegen & UltraRendu is different, as the UltraRendu running SonoreUPnP Bridge, will be connected to ‘A’ ports, along with feed from NUC/Rock Roon Server & NAS, with the ‘B’ port going to my Naim NDS network player.

 

Yes, would be different if the UltraRendu was the USB output to a DAC path & not part of the TCP/IP path to a unit with a Ethernet input, then a Burr-Brown PCM1704U based 'sign-magnitude' digital converter stage with an analogue stage on a brass isolation platform.

Simon.

This makes prefect sense. I did not consider this application above in my diagram.   

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, simon_pepper said:

Well, my intended use of an EtherRegen & UltraRendu is different, as the UltraRendu running SonoreUPnP Bridge, will be connected to ‘A’ ports, along with feed from NUC/Rock Roon Server & NAS, with the ‘B’ port going to my Naim NDS network player.

 

Yes, would be different if the UltraRendu was the USB output to a DAC path & not part of the TCP/IP path to a unit with a Ethernet input, then a Burr-Brown PCM1704U based 'sign-magnitude' digital converter stage with an analogue stage on a brass isolation platform.

Simon.

Here you go