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EtherREGEN: The long development and active launch discussion thread.

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57 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units

 

will need to place something very heavy on top of it, thanks to my ethernet cables stiffness 9_9

please consider making it "wall mountable" ;)


Qnap HS-251+ NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 (Roon ROCK - powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Lumin U1 Mini (powered by a Vinnie Rossi Mini Pure-DC-4EVR LPS) >  UpTone Audio ISO Regen (powered by an Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2) > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier + First Watt J2 by Nelson Pass power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)

I guess you mean 10/100 Mbps.  I hope it's OK to ask for a clarification on this point.  Are the SFP fiber ethernet cage and the isolated ethernet output jack two separate ports?  If so, I guess I don't understand the role of the SFP cage.


NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 1903/HDPLEX 200W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:51 AM, Superdad said:

EtherREGEN (that's just a working codename, not saying we will use that)

Put me down for a pre-order unit!!!!!  :)

 

BTW, love the SFP port!


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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1 hour ago, tboooe said:

Put me down for a pre-order unit!!!!!  :)

 

BTW, love the SFP port!

 

Actually, I am not that thrilled about the SFP port due to my previous experiences with fiber optical solutions. Copper Ethernet just sounds much more natural to me, but I remain open minded for Uptones Upsleeve! ?


       Auralic Aries Mini, Ariston RD40 & Mytek Brooklyn DAC system

          with Fostex TH900 & Gibson Les Paul 8 reference monitors

                    For detailed info see Audio System and About Me

                                  

  Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others. Graucho Marx

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I'm using optical just between my music system (where every device, NAS and switch included, runs on LPS) and the router/rest of the network so... happy I can get rid of one MC :)

 

only concern I have is... looks 10/100 SFPs are becoming pretty hard to find (only did a quick search on local Amazon) :|


Qnap HS-251+ NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 (Roon ROCK - powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Lumin U1 Mini (powered by a Vinnie Rossi Mini Pure-DC-4EVR LPS) >  UpTone Audio ISO Regen (powered by an Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2) > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier + First Watt J2 by Nelson Pass power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

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On 3/22/2018 at 12:51 PM, Superdad said:

the XO itself

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just curious - did John and you consider using XO or even OCXO? Was that a cost tradeoff?

 

Of course, I can wait until you're ready to say more about the clock design.

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:51 AM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Blake:  Great question, though a bit premature.

 

Our switch will have one special "output" port (to go to the streamer/DAC), and that port will have a lot of expensive isolator chips (and high-quality clocking on that clean side--which also feeds back across the isolation moat to the switch chip) and crazy attention paid to power (lost track of how many voltage regs the whole thing has) and power plane domains.

So in theory the external DC supply for the EtherREGEN (that's just a working codename, not saying we will use that) should not matter to the performance.  But I won't be surprised if in reality it does.  Just like with our USB/ISO REGENs--which are plenty effective with their stock SMPS but also benefit from a great LPS.

 

 

But of course! :D

 

Oh heck, as long as I'm spilling a few beans, I'll give a few more tidbits (but we are saving details about all the whiz-bang performance stuff for the launch, so don't ask about the chips, the clocking, the isolation):

  • Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
  • One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
  • Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
  • Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

The cost of some of the parts is damn high, and we have not done anything more than a very rough cost analysis, so please don't ask about price.  I don't think it will be too bad (with very modest margin similar to LPS-1.2 we are hoping to keep this under $500), but given that it will smoke all those expensive modified off-the-shelf units, it should be another value winner for UpTone.

 

Please don't ask about release date.  You and I want it now, but I promised John he could first continue work on some important "clock fingerprint" measurement test boards.  As usual, we would dearly love to prove the efficacy of the REGENs (both USB and Ethernet), and if he is successful, the new measurement jig (involving special high-speed ADCs, a processor board, and a bunch of other boards) could provide proof for a range of upstream variables that we all hear, especially with regards to data clocking for which nobody understands why it makes a difference.  Could blow things wide open.  Or it could be a bust.  That's what research and test is all about.

Of course if the preproduction prototypes of the EtherREGEN test well on the bench--even if John's clock-marker tests don't get done in time or don't pan out--and if the unit is sonically effective in an audio system, then we are going to put it into production as soon as possible.

 

I honestly can't think of anything more that I would be willing to say about this forthcoming (a few months?) product.  So while I love you all, please don't ask. ¬¬

Back to the wonders and uses of the hot-selling UltraCap LPS-1.2!

 

--Alex C.

I so can't wait for this!!!

 

 

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On 3/25/2018 at 8:47 AM, austinpop said:

Just curious - did John and you consider using XO or even OCXO? Was that a cost tradeoff?

Of course, I can wait until you're ready to say more about the clock design.

 

Well the clocking in our switch is much more sophisticated than is typical as:

a) we have to pass the clock back across the isolation moat;

b) more than one frequency is used.

That is all I want to say about the clocking architecture at this time.

 

As for use of an OCXO: As John has written about this, cheap OCXOs are no better (often worse) than a good XO--one needs to spend hundreds (at OEM pricing) to get a really good OCXO.  And for data clocks (for USB, Ethernet, or processors), such is total overkill.  Save really great clocks for the DAC audio clock(s).  Even the clock boards in the SOtM units don't use a OCXO as a reference for the SiLabs synthesizer chip. 

Besides, this switch--and the issues we are tackling--is about far more than just clocking...9_9

 

3 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

I so can't wait for this!!!

 

That makes quite a few of us! :D

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Well the clocking in our switch is much more sophisticated than is typical as:

a) we have to pass the clock back across the isolation moat;

b) more than one frequency is used.

That is all I want to say about the clocking architecture at this time.

 

As for use of an OCXO: As John has written about this, cheap OCXOs are no better (often worse) than a good XO--one needs to spend hundreds (at OEM pricing) to get a really good OCXO.  And for data clocks (for USB, Ethernet, or processors), such is total overkill.  Save really great clocks for the DAC audio clock(s).  Even the clock boards in the SOtM units don't use a OCXO as a reference for the SiLabs synthesizer chip. 

Besides, this switch--and the issues we are tackling--is about far more than just clocking...9_9

 

Hi Alex,

 

Well - I am going to defer to John's expertise on this. Major kudos to him and you for trying to demystify this space. The audiophile switch market is heating up, and it will be interesting to contrast what you guys come up with versus other approaches:

  1. SOtM-modded switches, slaved to sCLK-EX on another box, in turn fed by an expensive OCXO 10 MHz reference clock
  2. SOtM's impending standalone switch (details unknown)
  3. Linear Solutions switch (OCXO in situ, plus external LPS)

I have no horse in this race. I just know how much I love the sound quality of config #1, which is what I currently have. If you guys can deliver that or better at a fraction of the cost, you'll have a major winner!

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I am really excited about this.  When I switched to Server 2016 core, I lost the ability to have a direct Ethernet connection between my HQP PC and NAA via a bridge.  Having to use a switch has taken away some of the dynamics and magic.  Hopefully this new Uptone product will help restore the great sound I was getting.


12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Why 4 ports ?

 

- Router (not everyone will use optical fiber)

- NAS

- Player (computer/network streamer)

- DSP (eg. HQ-Player, on a separate machine)

 

(- Network renderer -> OUT)

 

;)


Qnap HS-251+ NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 (Roon ROCK - powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Lumin U1 Mini (powered by a Vinnie Rossi Mini Pure-DC-4EVR LPS) >  UpTone Audio ISO Regen (powered by an Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2) > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier + First Watt J2 by Nelson Pass power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

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14 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

 

- NAS

- Player (computer/network streamer)

- DSP (eg. HQ-Player, on a separate machine)

- Router (not everyone will use optical fiber)

(- Network renderer -> OUT)

 

;)

 

But there is no difference in the switch you already have vs The Audio Switch. My understanding or reason for making this switch is the one 10/100 out to your endpoint or equal. There is where the difference is. But I could be wrong. 

Maybe that “dirty” side also have some magic ?

 

Also you would try to keep those devices you mentioned in a reasonable distance from your audio gear. (Ref. also JohnS latest post in another thread). 

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13 minutes ago, Celts88 said:

Any chance of the 2 x Superclean ports being a goer, or is that a no go?

 

I decline to state why, but that is a no-go.  Would require a second Ethernet switch chip.  If I say anything more we would begin to give away competitive details. Sorry.

Since the price of the product will be as reasonable as we can make it, so folks who really need 2 of the super-clean outputs may simply purchase two units.

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

I decline to state why, but that is a no-go.  Would require a second Ethernet switch chip.  If I say anything more we would begin to give away competitive details. Sorry.

Alex

 

Understand if it could compromise your design to keep quiet.

 

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

Since the price of the product will be as reasonable as we can make it, so folks who really need 2 of the super-clean outputs may simply purchase two units.

 

That's really generous of you to offer 2-to-1 price, thanks I'll have 88 please :P

 

On a more serious note, do you think going to my Antipodes Server or Devialet Amp, which would give the best option for the Superclean Ethernet. I suppose when listening to Antipodes I plug that into the SC port, and when listening to internet streamed to Devialet Amp plug that into SC port.

 

I've currently got an Aqvox switch, so assume your EtherREGEN would be a better option than that

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This could be a game changer for me... I was considering to send my wifi router to get it modded to get to a cleaner network. Perhaps EtherRegen would already do the trick for me.

 

looking forward to the details on:

 

1) recommended setup: I guess the typical setup for most people is - Modem --> Wifi Router --> switch --> a) NAS, b) Computer (probably a Roon Server), c) streamer. Where should EtherRegen(s) be placed

 

2) some technical explanations:

a) why the clean port is 10/100 not 10/1000?

b) the presence of the SFP, is it for bridging 2 EtherGen?

c) LPS1.2 can power EtherRegen?

d) best placement in the recommended setup and why?

 

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