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EtherREGEN: Early general details [We are late but getting closer! ;-)]

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34 minutes ago, mfaoro said:

In lieu of constantly monitoring this thread, is the best way to find out about preorder/launch to sign up for the newsletter on your web site?

 

Yes, entering your e-mail address on our web site to receive the newsletter is the easiest way. :D

 

But don’t worry about receiving lots of emails from us (and I will NEVER share the list with any other companies).

New product launches are about the only time we ever send any “newsletters” to our mailing list. (We are just always too busy to do any promotional marketing. Plus I know that nobody enjoys receiving lots of emails, so I refrain from it until we have new products to offer.)

 

 What we do for launches is notify everyone via our mailing list (which you are already on if you ever bought anything from us) and via our forum—a few days before, when the product page is up but the “AddToCart” button is not shown.  We do not take orders until we know the exact date we plan to ship (that's once we have dates from our PCB and aluminum case companies).

 

We tell in the e-mail the date and time (always 9:00 a.m. PST, usually a Tuesday) that order taking will begin, and right at 9:00 orders pour in.  People set their alarms to get their orders in because the first run (150-250 depending upon my expectation for launch) often sell out in the first hour.

This is really the only manageable way for us to do these launches. No pre-pre-order lists.

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Perfect. Thank you Superdad. 


Sound: Linn Klimax DSM + Linn Duo amp, Maggie 3.7i

Wires + Power: Transparent Reference & XL

Digital: Roon Nucleus+, QNAP HS251, AQ Jitterbugs

Analog: Radikal Linn LP12

Isolation: Stillpoint & HRS

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Using an Acoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator (isolation transformer + choke coil).  A few observations:

  • Noise enters via the ethernet connection
  • a better-than-generic ethernet cable improves the sound
  • there is room for further improvement vs. the AR isolator

So, looking forward to trying EtherRegen.  This site has a somewhat helpful graph:  https://www.lotusgroupusa.com/lan-isolator.html  Thought it would be OK to post in this thread since the AR is NOT a competitor for the EtherRegen, which is clearly an all-out effort to fix the noise problem.


Roon / Mola Mola Tambaqui / Kubala-Sosna XLR / Mola Mola Kaluga / KS biwire / B&W 803 D3

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8 hours ago, PYP said:

This site has a somewhat helpful graph:  https://www.lotusgroupusa.com/lan-isolator.html  

 

Hi:

Actually I think their fuzzy graphs are very deceptive.  Look closely at all the settings and you'll see that its the bandwidth frequency that differs and not the scale.  Also, it is entirely unclear what they are measuring.  Is that a leakage test?  It sure is not a noise test--of what? [As an aside and in general I loath the way so many companies and audiophiles toss around the tern "noise" so generically. It is about as specific as the terms "food", "germs", or "fuel." x-D

Plus $275 seems like an awful lot to pay to just add an $2 inductor to a RJ45 mag-jack (they say that’s basically what the did).

And people need to think about what that class of isolators are actually designed to do and what one does or does not want to filter from the Ethernet signal. Remember, depending upon what bandwidth you look at, the "noise" is the signal!

 

I'll not get too far into it here (besides, JS is more qualified to speak about it), but I will say that such "isolators," including the linked AR and the more reasonably priced units from EMO Systems and Baaske Medical are primarily medical environment safety devices to prevent passage of large voltage spikes and to reduce leakage currents (the latter indeed a good thing for audio systems), though a purposely designed switch can readily accomplish the latter without much extra cost (even see the couple of specific $20 Netgear switches that John confirmed will shunt external leakage if grounded).

 

Hope everyone is having a great weekend. I've just caught up with virtually all my e-mail so I'm in a good mood. Think I'll go outside and wash the car before my trip to the Bay Area.  

Ciao!

--Alex C.

 

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

Plus $275 seems like an awful lot to pay to just add an $2 inductor to a RJ45 mag-jack. 9_9

 

Well...I didn't mention that it came with an origami crane (it is a Japanese company).   You might want to think about something similar to include with the EtherRegen.  Perhaps a miniature bald eagle?   


Roon / Mola Mola Tambaqui / Kubala-Sosna XLR / Mola Mola Kaluga / KS biwire / B&W 803 D3

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3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I think something with silk will be quite revolutionary. Fantastic measurements.

 

3 hours ago, nonesup said:

My experience with an EMO 70 HD, is that it "kills" the emotion of music

 

I have the older version of the RLI-1 (have used it for years) and have not heard the latest.  Some think that the earlier version dulled the music, similar to the comment from nonesup regarding the EMO.  That doesn't happen in my system, so I continue to use it while I await the EtherRegen.  Given what the RLI-1 does in my system (increased clarity, more refined HF and greater LF), I'm stoked to try the EtherRegen.  


Roon / Mola Mola Tambaqui / Kubala-Sosna XLR / Mola Mola Kaluga / KS biwire / B&W 803 D3

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On 4/28/2019 at 1:23 PM, nonesup said:

My experience with an EMO 70 HD, is that it "kills" the emotion of music

 

So not my experience! I have a Emo Systems EN-70HD between Roon server (Uptone LPS-2 modded Mac Mini) and dCS Network Bridge and it only changes things for the better.


Roon server (Mac Mini/i7/SSD/16GB/Uptone DC mod/external SDD via firewire/Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Cables CAT6 UTP ethernet, Transparent premium AES/EBU, Nordost Leif Red Dawn analog RCA, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, custom power cables Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) | Audio-technica ATH-M50 Software High Sierra | Roon 1.6 | Tidal hifi Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, 0.0001pf, balanced) | Vibex one 6R power distributor | Emo Systems EN-70HD network isolator | Jensen CI-1RR isolator

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Only half way through Q2. They still have a while. At this point, no news is good news. I figure when it’s ready, they will announce/send emails for pre-order. I’d be more concerned if they were here talking about difficulties in the development process.


[Home Digital] Bricasti M12 > McIntosh MC60 > Zu Druid V + Undertone (BHSE + Voce)

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > K&K Audio Phono Amp (Zu DL-103/Benz Glider-SL/Denon DL-301 II)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia Headphones (balanced)

[beach/Travel] Laptop > DragonFly Red > Ether Headphones

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13 hours ago, Bones13 said:

Only half way through Q2. They still have a while. At this point, no news is good news. I figure when it’s ready, they will announce/send emails for pre-order. I’d be more concerned if they were here talking about difficulties in the development process.

 

Well, there is a saying that no news is good news but it is extremely quiet in this corner of the Uptone forum lately. I get the impression that there are some non disclosured hiccups..


Roon server (Mac Mini/i7/SSD/16GB/Uptone DC mod/external SDD via firewire/Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Cables CAT6 UTP ethernet, Transparent premium AES/EBU, Nordost Leif Red Dawn analog RCA, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, custom power cables Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) | Audio-technica ATH-M50 Software High Sierra | Roon 1.6 | Tidal hifi Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, 0.0001pf, balanced) | Vibex one 6R power distributor | Emo Systems EN-70HD network isolator | Jensen CI-1RR isolator

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Nicely summarized. 🙂


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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8 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Not at all!  Things are moving quickly now.  The recent set of prototype boards is working perfectly--with data (and music!) going end to end, through the 3 Ethernet chips, through the 600MHz isolators and the 10GHz-capable differential flip-flops, and with the clock synthesizer.

This is quite exciting for us, as it means Pinocchio will be a real boy soon! :D

 

Now it all about the power networks and the final board layout.  The 13 data and clock devices on the board need a total of about 22 voltage lines (several chips require 3 different voltages).  There will be at least six LT3045 regs on the 'A' side, and four on the 'B' side--plus step-down pre-regulators for at least half of those. Not counting all the select X7R output caps for those regs and the rest of the passive parts for the power networks, we are already well about $50 just in premium voltage regulators! (And that's at 2,500 piece pricing for the regs--which sadly Linear Tech charges near the same for 100 pcs. as 10,000 pcs.)

 

John is pretty tied up this week, but he will be starting on the final layout next week.  We expect that to take at least 10 days, giving a good deal of time for triple checking and also working with me on the spacing of the jacks and switches at the busy edge of the board.  Depending upon our degree of confidence, we will then run somewhere between 3-10 pre-production boards (for such a small run those will likely cost us $800 each, so 3 if we are unsure and 8-10 if we think the will be useable for a small beta-test group).

 

As soon as all the jacks/switches/LED/ground screw positions are at production spots on the layout, a lifelong friend of mine (former CEO and Chief Industrial Designer from my Hovland years) will do the CAD and lettering files for the casework--as he has for all other UpTone products--so I can then get the enclosures on order.

 

Please don't ask for an availability estimate.  To me the above looks like 2 months--assuming no issues or parts shortages.  But the days do go by quickly.  You can be I'll keep everyone up to date here whenever there is news to report or pictures to post. 

 

Cheers!

--Alex C.

 

 

Thank you Alex. An update like this, once in a while, will put our minds (certainly mine) at ease.


Roon server (Mac Mini/i7/SSD/16GB/Uptone DC mod/external SDD via firewire/Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Cables CAT6 UTP ethernet, Transparent premium AES/EBU, Nordost Leif Red Dawn analog RCA, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, custom power cables Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) | Audio-technica ATH-M50 Software High Sierra | Roon 1.6 | Tidal hifi Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, 0.0001pf, balanced) | Vibex one 6R power distributor | Emo Systems EN-70HD network isolator | Jensen CI-1RR isolator

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8 hours ago, Trabb said:

It sounds like UltraCap LPS-1 with its 1A would not be able to handle EtherREGEN as planned. Am I right ? 

 

No, that is not a certainty yet.  It likely will be very close, but there is still a chance that the EtherREGEN will come in under the 1.1A-continuous limit of our UltraCap supplies. We can't defy physics, but we do have a few tricks up our sleeves. B|

 

Remember too that the EtherREGEN is not only filled with the best available voltage regulators (and carefully planned power networks around each), but that by design the whole unit is to be highly effective at blocking AC leakage--the primary evil of SMPS.  So while I am sure some will wish to power the EtherREGEN with a linear PS, it is as yet a complete unknown what if any sonic benefit will be gained versus using the SMPS brick that will be included. (Same UpTone-branded 36W, internally ground-shunted unit that is supplied as the charger with the UltraCap LPS-1.2).

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26 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No, that is not a certainty yet.  It likely will be very close, but there is still a chance that the EtherREGEN will come in under the 1.1A-continuous limit of our UltraCap supplies. We can't defy physics, but we do have a few tricks up our sleeves. B|

 

Remember too that the EtherREGEN is not only filled with the best available voltage regulators (and carefully planned power networks around each), but that by design the whole unit is to be highly effective at blocking AC leakage--the primary evil of SMPS.  So while I am sure some will wish to power the EtherREGEN with a linear PS, it is as yet a complete unknown what if any sonic benefit will be gained versus using the SMPS brick that will be included. (Same UpTone-branded 36W, internally ground-shunted unit that is supplied as the charger with the UltraCap LPS-1.2).

Will the upper input voltage be 12VDC?

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@SuperDad:

 

Will unshielded CAT6 cables, going in and out, suffice, or shielded is preferable? 

 

 


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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@LowMidHigh

You may want to differ between cables that is using metal plugs, and hence are able to add a connection between devices through the shield. As you probably know the BJ has a shielded cable with plastic plugs. 

 

And there are available cables with JSSG360 with metal plugs that doesn’t connect the shield to the plug as well. 

 

Expensive cables like the Vodka is another option, not following the standard, where the cable is shielded, but the shield is not connected to the plug. 

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6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@LowMidHigh

You may want to differ between cables that is using metal plugs, and hence are able to add a connection between devices through the shield. As you probably know the BJ has a shielded cable with plastic plugs. 

 

And there are available cables with JSSG360 with metal plugs that doesn’t connect the shield to the plug as well. 

 

Expensive cables like the Vodka is another option, not following the standard, where the cable is shielded, but the shield is not connected to the plug. 

 

Thanks for expanding the discussion and lying down multiple options in a clear fashion. 

Still, in that light, the question is what does UpTone recommend for said future device?


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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