BlueDL Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 In other words, the comparison is: Wired Ethernet into the optimised ‘input’ with optical SFP output to Optical Rendu vs Wired or optical Ethernet into a ‘standard’ input with ‘optimised’ wired output to an Optical Module (en route to the Optical Rendu). Once the hardware is on sale, I will await future comparisons with great interest! 🤔 Link to comment
ericuco Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, thyname said: Incorrect! There is no "dirty" or "clean" site, as long as you go input / output across Per Alex's first post in this thread: "The goal of the unit is to provide full isolation (and very high-quality clocking) for one special "clean" port--to be the port that feeds your Ethernet-attached streamer/renderer/DAC device (be that something like a micro/ultraRendu, Aries, SOtM, Ethernet input DAC, or whatever Ethernet connection is most directly connected to your DAC)." Did this change? Eric Audio System Link to comment
thyname Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, ericuco said: Per Alex's first post in this thread: "The goal of the unit is to provide full isolation (and very high-quality clocking) for one special "clean" port--to be the port that feeds your Ethernet-attached streamer/renderer/DAC device (be that something like a micro/ultraRendu, Aries, SOtM, Ethernet input DAC, or whatever Ethernet connection is most directly connected to your DAC)." Did this change? Yes it did. I cannot find Alex's subsequent post on this issue, a couple of months ago, but it is in this thread Link to comment
BlueDL Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I guess it all boils down to what detrimental impact (if any) the addition of an Opitcal Module has on the quality of the feed from the optimised port. By all accounts, the OM is being designed to be a simple low-noise solution which should out-perform other FMCs. Whether this claim is audible is open to opinion of course, but the approach being taken is reassuring at least. Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 12, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, ericuco said: Per Alex's first post in this thread: "The goal of the unit is to provide full isolation (and very high-quality clocking) for one special "clean" port--to be the port that feeds your Ethernet-attached streamer/renderer/DAC device (be that something like a micro/ultraRendu, Aries, SOtM, Ethernet input DAC, or whatever Ethernet connection is most directly connected to your DAC)." Did this change? Guess I should update the first post. Because indeed the design has changed a bit since then. Clocking, flopping, and buffering are now symmetrical on the two sides of the active isolator “moat.” Two clock synths, two Crystek 575s, two ultra-high-speed, ultra-low-jitter differential flip-flops. So it does not matter witch end one connects to the DAC-connected end-point—as long as you are crossing the moat one way or the other. See some posts starting here: And yes, what EtherREGEN does (with dual clock domains) is beyond—in function and performance—what the Sonore opticalModule FMC will do. Will that make a difference for opticalRendu users? Who knows—as neither product is on the market yet. And as I have said many times before, the EtherREGEN is aimed at a much broader market. Must just be the timing of all these products that has some of you conflating them together with these speculative questions. Bones13, tomjtx and soares 1 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
nonesup Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Acknowledge him Alex. This system of information release drop by drop, you have obtained it from some secret manual of torture of the KGB 😂 Superdad 1 Francisco Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5 Link to comment
wwc Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 This may be speculation at this point, but I'm going to ask anyway: 🤓 Regarding a fiber optic isolation filter, (Gigafoil for example): Is it believed that etherRegen might work additively in tandem with the g.foil, or would the etherRegen make it redundant? Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 15 hours ago, wwc said: This may be speculation at this point, but I'm going to ask anyway: 🤓 Regarding a fiber optic isolation filter, (Gigafoil for example): Is it believed that etherRegen might work additively in tandem with the g.foil, or would the etherRegen make it redundant? I don't really know what is in a Gigafoil so it is hard to speculate, but my guess is that the EtherRegen would make it superfluous. Remember that the etherRegen has two primary things: provide isolation from upstream leakage current (in all forms), AND prevent upstream clock noise (phase noise, jitter, whatever you want to call it) from propagating through. To my knowledge nobody else is doing both those. John S. beautiful music 1 Link to comment
jos Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 20 hours ago, JohnSwenson said: I don't really know what is in a Gigafoil so it is hard to speculate, but my guess is that the EtherRegen would make it superfluous. Remember that the etherRegen has two primary things: provide isolation from upstream leakage current (in all forms), AND prevent upstream clock noise (phase noise, jitter, whatever you want to call it) from propagating through. To my knowledge nobody else is doing both those. John S. Thanks, promises, promises, Johnn, so we can’t wait much longer. A release date, please? 🙏 RickyV 1 Link to comment
nonesup Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I think Jos is right. Francisco Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5 Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted March 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, jos said: A release date, please? Who knows if there may be any one of a thousand things that cause even a firmly projected release date to slip? My advice to manufacturers and developers is never to set release dates until the software can be downloaded or the hardware exists in quantity and can be ordered. Otherwise it happens far too often that the release date is missed and people don't like that. Superdad, Sonic77, k-man and 2 others 3 2 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
jos Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 26 minutes ago, Jud said: Who knows if there may be any one of a thousand things that cause even a firmly projected release date to slip? My advice to manufacturers and developers is never to set release dates until the software can be downloaded or the hardware exists in quantity and can be ordered. Otherwise it happens far too often that the release date is missed and people don't like that. Agree, but we are a year later now after starting this thread by Uptone Audio. I believe it is also a way from companies to prevent people from buying something similar. I don't care to wait a little longer than promised, if they can't reach a dead-line for a viable reason, but in this case there is no horizon, beside: 'we are getting closer'. So, I want to know: how close? And I assume others too. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, jos said: Agree, but we are a year later now after starting this thread by Uptone Audio. I believe it is also a way from companies to prevent people from buying something similar. I don't care to wait a little longer than promised, if they can't reach a dead-line for a viable reason, but in this case there is no horizon, beside: 'we are getting closer'. So, I want to know: how close? And I assume others too. Yes, I can certainly see your point. On the other hand, if you make your decision based on a projected release date and that slips.... So I am not sure there is one right answer here. I think everyone must make their own decisions. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
DelsFan Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 As someone with "only" a streamer, I'd like to know more too, since their fine USB products don't help me in my situation. How much will the EtherREGEN really cost, and when can I order one if I wish to do so? However, I expect Alex and John probably like to eat, like the rest of us, but it seems they are in this business because they love it, and they love what they produce. Therefore, I assume they haven't set a release date because they just (reasonably) can't. Regardless of the reason - upgrading or field testing the design, testing more components, finishing reliability studies, or parts (or one part) not yet available in quantity - surely they'd rather move from the design phase, and all the myriad paths and decisions still available to them, to the "sell it" phase, where there are almost no decisions to be made anymore: just accept orders, ship products, and make sure they have enough parts coming in so they don't run out. I'm sure they'd like nothing more this week than be able to start accepting orders (or pre-orders)! So I'm trying to be patient. Easier because my headphone amp is six weeks from arriving though... Superdad 1 Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!? Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. Link to comment
Bones13 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Well... my current d-link switch is quite adequate for the job at the moment. I plan to wait as long as needed for this product to surface. I have not been enamored of the other upgraded switches so far (function to price ratio). I would look again at the other offerings if this fails to make it to market, or some other terminal negative. Superdad 1 [Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers [Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL) [Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite [Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 18, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, DelsFan said: As someone with "only" a streamer, I'd like to know more too, since their fine USB products don't help me in my situation. How much will the EtherREGEN really cost, and when can I order one if I wish to do so? Well one thing I am fairly confident in restating is that EtherREGEN will sell for about $600 (+/- $25 should not matter to anyone). Less certain--and I know this is disappointing to all (none more than me)--is the exact release date. There have been some setbacks, some technical, some otherwise. On the technical front, one of the key chips we are using (the main Ethernet switch chip) has programing issues that we are waiting for a response from the manufacturer about. And another key chip we are using (as one side PHY and intermediate protocol for going over the moat) is so new that John has been working directly with project managers at TI on documentation issues--and it has become clear we are the first manufacturer to actually design for the part (Frankly with all the work he has put into that chip and the feedback he has given them, they ought to pay him a stipend!). On the "otherwise" front is the fact that the Sonore opticalRendu (another brilliant JS design as you all know)--estimated as a 6 week diversion after the start of the EtherREGEN project--turned into a 9 month affair, with then the opticalModule tossed in at the end. Of course UpTone and Sonore projects benefit each other development-wise. This is especially so in the case of these 3 Ethernet devices as several of the key chips and knowledge to program and implement them are common between them. I am very happy for Sonore, but make no mistake, the EtherREGEN development cycle was slowed a LOT by opticalRendu. C'est la vie. The one thing I can unequivocally state is that John constantly works incredibly hard on these projects. The hours and brainpower he puts into them are extraordinary. I gamely attempt to assist when he gets stuck: he talks through the issues with me (much of it over my head), and I make troubleshooting strategy suggestions that sometimes--due to my not too close to see perspective--work out or point a path forward. I also fund rounds of test boards and order EVM boards and parts as needed. We are getting closer though. Some key tests are taking place this week, and assuming they go as planned we will move forward with layout and fabrication of the most fully-functioning version of EtherREGEN so far. It will still have lots of diagnostic monitoring connections and configurable elements that will go away on the final board, but it will move us far forward. Once that board is produced and working on the bench, I'll be much more comfortable beginning to make new estimates of launch timing. But the truth is that even if these next few weeks go smoothly, we are still at least a couple months out beyond that. So to sum up: John and I both feel the pressure. From our waiting audience for the product, but also from ourselves. If anyone is not comfortable waiting, please go ahead and make other plans. While we feel an obligation to get this unique product out into the market--where we expect it will perform wonderfully for all--we have to get it right. Of course UpTone has not taken anyone's money in advance for EtherREGEN. We always decline to do so until final boards are in production and cases are inbound. Thank you to all for your enthusiasm, patience, and understanding, --Alex C. motberg, Bricki, thyname and 15 others 6 4 8 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
DelsFan Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Superdad said: Well one thing I am fairly confident in restating is that EtherREGEN will sell for about $600 (+/- $25 should not matter to anyone)... That is good to hear; I just emailed a guy telling him I'd budgeted $750... Of course there is the matter of an upgrading to an LPS. I have come and gone on this thread so I didn't remember, or know, what the recent estimate was. As I said before, I'm sure everyone is doing all they can to get the EtherREGEN to market. More and more people are taking up streaming daily, so there is a market for it and I'm sure you will be as excited for it to appear as we are. In the end, what is good for you is good for us - it does none of us any good for the product to come out when in reality it is only "almost" ready. You are very kind to give a concise update. Superdad 1 Who would have thought Idiocracy would turn out to be a documentary!? Mapleshade Samson V.5 equipment rack, 4" maple platforms and brass vibration isolation, DH Labs 12ga Silver Sonic Power Plus dedicated power line, IsoTek Sirius EVO3 Power Conditioner, EtherREGEN, InSound Audio Ebony Cat8 Ethernet Cable, Linn Genki CD player (transport), Cary DMS-550 streamer/DAC, Linear Tube Audio Z10e amplifier, (For Sale:) Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier, Meze Empyrian headphones, various Omega-Micro analog and digital interconnects and power cords. Link to comment
nonesup Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Well that is an honest explanation. You tell us frankly about the technical problems and that is much better than silence. After this explanation, I will wait as long as necessary. Regards Superdad 1 Francisco Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5 Link to comment
Popular Post k-man Posted March 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2019 Woah! I was thinking you were just procrastinating with fervorous forum activity. Just like the rest of us. Superdad and BigAlMc 2 Link to comment
greenleo Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I would rather order something that's ready to ship than to wait for the shipment forever. The work of Alex and John are very much appreciated. k-man 1 Link to comment
thyname Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 41 minutes ago, greenleo said: I would rather order something that's ready to ship than to wait for the shipment forever. ‘Like what? Link to comment
greenleo Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Just now, thyname said: ‘Like what? I can find at least two products in the AS forum. Definitely not from Uptone. Will not name them here but the two products are pretty infamous, MPOV, and you can see people losing patience rightly, again MPOV. Link to comment
jos Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Thanks for the explanation. It seems to be a groundbreaking product, so I will wait... Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 5:02 PM, Superdad said: as long as you are crossing the moat one way or the other. And the only way to cross that moat is still to use the only one 100mhz RJ45 port ? Nothing changed as explained in John’s post below. Then if one are an opticalRendu user, use that 5th RJ45 as input and the SFP as output. Should have exactly same effect as going the other way (fiber in), or use one of the 4 other RJ45 as input. Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 12 hours ago, greenleo said: I can find at least two products in the AS forum. Definitely not from Uptone. Will not name them here but the two products are pretty infamous, MPOV, and you can see people losing patience rightly, again MPOV. Infamous? Are you sure? Infamous = known for bad quality....Did you you mean 'renown' or or 'well-known'? Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
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