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EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]


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8 hours ago, jos said:

How abouth this device, see link? Brand new by the way and promising!

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

AudioStream was quite positive in a review, about a year ago.

 

There are any number of Ethernet isolation transformers you can buy, and they do work to some extent for various types of noise, but to me they are a different type of product than the ER, not so much competing.

 

I agree that if folks want to discuss this other type of product, creating a dedicated thread would be a good idea.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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13 hours ago, jos said:

How abouth this device, see link? Brand new by the way and promising!

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

@Superdad has addressed this earlier:

"Those single port GigaFOIL devices, starting at $475 (https://www.djmelectronics.com/ethernet-emi-rfi-filter.html) are fiber-optic based isolators, strictly focused on EMI.  As detailed elsewhere, we are taking a broader approach." 

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I would be wadding to share an experience that I am experiencing right now.

My network configuration is: Router to Switch Aqvox to Melco and from this USB to DAC. I am currently reproducing Mozart's Sinfonia 40 from my Melco (not Streeming). I go to the kitchen and I disconnect the Ethernet cable that goes from the Router to the Aqvox. The sound instantly becomes "much more natural." This gives an idea of the amount of noise circulating on the network.

And I think it will be the definitive test for EtherRegen, if disconnecting the same cable there is no change in the sound is that Uptone has succeeded.

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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I'm not so sure about this. I am describing the test I intend to do with EtherRegen to check its effectiveness, not with GigaFOIL.

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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5 hours ago, nonesup said:

I would be wadding to share an experience that I am experiencing right now.

My network configuration is: Router to Switch Aqvox to Melco and from this USB to DAC. I am currently reproducing Mozart's Sinfonia 40 from my Melco (not Streeming). I go to the kitchen and I disconnect the Ethernet cable that goes from the Router to the Aqvox. The sound instantly becomes "much more natural." This gives an idea of the amount of noise circulating on the network.

And I think it will be the definitive test for EtherRegen, if disconnecting the same cable there is no change in the sound is that Uptone has succeeded.

 

Does the same thing happen when you disconnect the ethernet from the Melco (instead of at the switch)?

 

When talking differences in produced audio, I must say that the Uptone LPS-1.2 is one of just a few devices I have had over the years that an upmarket power cable made no obvious difference to the sound. That is testimony to the great design and isolation that the LPS-1.2 gives in my system, at least. The only other 2 devices where a power cable change made no appreciable difference to the sound produced were the Metronome Reference DAC and Mark Levinson CD Transport.

 

Regards

GG

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If I disconnect the ethernet cable from the Aqvox to the Melco, then sound stops playing. I guess it's because it's Aqvox acts as a DHCP server. There is nevertheless a way to do it. I can disconnect that cable and go to the Melco screen and play through the screen menu in Melco. For this I would have to activate Twonky (which is the software installed in the factory), which is disabled because I use Minimserver lately.

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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On 1/24/2019 at 4:02 AM, Superdad said:

The GigaFOIL is a passive filter device.

 

Only replying to your text of the GigaFOIL here, but if you don't want to discuss this product, that's fine of course.

 

But it needs 5Vdc external power to work and uses optical isolation?

 

Isn't that 'active' isolation? Isolation of the data, not incoming power of course.

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

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13 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Only replying to your text of the GigaFOIL here, but if you don't want to discuss this product, that's fine of course.

 

But it needs 5Vdc external power to work and uses optical isolation?

 

Isn't that 'active' isolation? Isolation of the data, not incoming power of course.

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

From their website:

"However, these types of filters often eliminate the high frequencies that make up the sharp edges of high-speed digital square wave signals, thereby degrading the integrity of the signal."

 

Don't you  just love the smell of BS in the morning?

 

 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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Does the JS-2 also have internal shunting? I notice there is not a grounding screw on the back panel. Would the etherRegen need to be separately grounded if using the JS-2? If so, would it be hard to have a ground terminal installed in the JS-2? I hope to avoid switching PSUs in the final configuration. I would be using the JS-2 to power the switch and the Roku.

[Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite

[Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys

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36 minutes ago, Bones13 said:

Does the JS-2 also have internal shunting? I notice there is not a grounding screw on the back panel. Would the etherRegen need to be separately grounded if using the JS-2? If so, would it be hard to have a ground terminal installed in the JS-2? I hope to avoid switching PSUs in the final configuration. I would be using the JS-2 to power the switch and the Roku.

.......and in addition to the above, where would you recommend accessing the earth from (i.e. the opposite end to the solderless ground terminal on the power supply), in the AC feed to the SMPS perhaps? 

I guess you can buy mains sockets with grounding terminals if needs be. Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Bones13 said:

Does the JS-2 also have internal shunting? I notice there is not a grounding screw on the back panel. Would the etherRegen need to be separately grounded if using the JS-2? If so, would it be hard to have a ground terminal installed in the JS-2? I hope to avoid switching PSUs in the final configuration. I would be using the JS-2 to power the switch and the Roku.

The JS-2 has both its outputs isolated from ground. To use one as the supply for the EtherRegen, you need an external safety ground connection, there are a couple ways to do this: buy a "ground plug" and connect the wire to the ground connector on the EtherRegen. The ground plug looks like a normal mains plug except only the ground pin is metal, the others are plastic. There is just one wire coming out of this special plug (usually green). You plug this into an outlet on the same power strip you plug the JS-2 into. You do need to get a ground plug that works with your country's AC sockets.

 

09838use1.jpg

The other option is the GroundHog from iFi, it is a kit that starts with an IEC SOCKET, into which you plug your own power cord (whatever works in your country), the output has various different adapters, one of which is a little spade lug that fits around the barrel of a standard DC barrel plug. Just clip this on to the plug going into the EtherRegen and it is grounded, simple to use, but fairly expensive.

 

John S.

 

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@John S,

 

Please bear with my question again.  If a switch is already grounded (shunted?  Which is the correct term), do I still need to use LAN cables that do not use metal caps at both ends?

 

I'm told that plastic caps should be used but usually high quality RJ45 caps are with metals.

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11 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

It would be great to offer one of those ground plugs as an optional paid extra for owners of JS-2?

 

I was thinking of a grounding screw addition to the back plate of the JS-2 similar to a grounding screw for turntable grounding. I assume (?) that the JS-2 chassis is grounded to earth via the power cord. Simply drilling a hole, and installing a good looking screw terminal (cleaning off some aluminum coating on the inside if needed) would provide correct grounding.

[Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite

[Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys

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11 hours ago, greenleo said:

@John S,

 

Please bear with my question again.  If a switch is already grounded (shunted?  Which is the correct term), do I still need to use LAN cables that do not use metal caps at both ends?

 

I'm told that plastic caps should be used but usually high quality RJ45 caps are with metals.

 

The Audioquest Vodka as an example use metal plugs but they are not connected by the shielding. 

 

If you purchase cables  that Is FTP (which mean shielded) with metal plugs, you probably have a problem. It you make or purchase ethernet cables according to JSSG 360, you should expect to get the best possible cable. The metal plugs in this design is not connected to the shield, and they are probably also adding some EMC/RFI protection.

 

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On 1/29/2019 at 10:06 AM, Bones13 said:

Does the JS-2 also have internal shunting?

 

No it does not.  As mentioned, the DC outputs of the JS-2 are "floated."  That is, their zero-volt -VE DC jack shells are not connected to AC mains ground.  We go to a lot of trouble (using on the regulators hand-cut/punched high performance thermal pads that are also electrically isolating) to accomplish this--the idea being "Why go to the trouble of building a very low-noise LPS only to invite back in some of the house mains ground grunge?"

[For safety the JS-2 chassis and transformer shield are connected to AC mains ground--via the AC power inlet/cord's ground pin.]

 

Let's back up to be clear about what the point of so-called "ground-shunting"--making DC output common to AC mains--is for in relation to power supplies:

Switch-mode power supplies have a LOT of AC leakage current (over a VERY broad range of frequencies--from 60Hz on up over 1MHz) due to their design and required use of 'Y' capacitors across their transformers.  I am not going to rewrite the full explanation about the two forms of leakage coming out of SMPS units and how the common low-source-impedance ("touch current") form is hard to block yet the lesser-known, high-source-impedance form is simple to get rid of by shunting the -VE of the SMPS to ground.  John and I have written extensively about this--and published measurements--elsewhere on this forum.

But I want to remind people that although any power supply connected to the AC line will have some leakage, linear power supplies, depending upon their transformer type, have vastly less than any SMPS.

 

Thus there is no reason for us to "ground-shunt" a JS-2.

 

On 1/29/2019 at 10:06 AM, Bones13 said:

I notice there is not a grounding screw on the back panel. Would the etherRegen need to be separately grounded if using the JS-2?

 

Yes, and in my detailed explanation of EtherREGEN grounding I said just that.  For any use of a "floating" output power supply--be it an UltraCap supply, a JS-2, batteries, or some other brand of LPS (or even someone's ungrounded SMPS)--it will then be desirable to earth-ground the EtherREGEN so that it can be effective at its port-to-port blocking of leakage that may arrive to it from Ethernet cables that are connected to computers and other devices powered by SMPS.  

 

On 1/29/2019 at 10:06 AM, Bones13 said:

If so, would it be hard to have a ground terminal installed in the JS-2? I hope to avoid switching PSUs in the final configuration. I would be using the JS-2 to power the switch and the Roku.

 

We are providing a ground terminal on the EtherREGEN.  That is the place to accomplish this.  There is no need for a ground terminal on the JS-2.  It would only confuse people.

 

On 1/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, BlueDL said:

.......and in addition to the above, where would you recommend accessing the earth from (i.e. the opposite end to the solderless ground terminal on the power supply), in the AC feed to the SMPS perhaps? 

 

Where you get the earth ground--for an EtherREGEN powered by a floating PS--is not critical.  Heck you could use a ground or chassis screw on your preamp or power amp if you first use a meter to confirm that its chassis is common to your AC wall ground.

(And remember the PS that will come included with the EtherREGEN is already ground-shunted so no separate wire is needed at all if you use the SMPS we provide.)

 

On 1/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, BlueDL said:

I guess you can buy mains sockets with grounding terminals if needs be. Thanks.

 

Hmm... never seen a wall socket with room-facing ground terminal.  But really there is no need to go to such lengths.  Every hardware store in the world sells AC plugs that you can screw wires to (for repair or to make extension cords), and most all of those have a ground pin.  One of those with just a single wire screwed to the ground terminal is perfectly safe.

 

While John posted a photo of a purpose-made plastic/metal grounding plug (typically sold for use with anti-static grounding straps), such are useful only in the USA and I have no plans to include one with the EtherREGEN for the minority of users who might need to ground their EtherREGENs.  I have not been able to find similar items for overseas mains outlets.  John also mentioned the iFi GroundHog, which comes with various worldwide plugs.  

 

I honestly don't think think the grounding issue is that complicated.  There are plenty of simple options.

 

14 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

It would be great to offer one of those ground plugs as an optional paid extra for owners of JS-2?

 

Please read all the above.  Truly no need for such.

 

3 hours ago, Bones13 said:

I was thinking of a grounding screw addition to the back plate of the JS-2 similar to a grounding screw for turntable grounding. I assume (?) that the JS-2 chassis is grounded to earth via the power cord. Simply drilling a hole, and installing a good looking screw terminal (cleaning off some aluminum coating on the inside if needed) would provide correct grounding.

 

Please don't do this to a lovely JS-2.  :o  No need. 

 

Cheers all!

--Alex C.

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17 minutes ago, Superdad said:

mm... never seen a wall socket with room-facing ground terminal. 

I was thinking of this:

 

https://www.russandrews.com/supersocket-double-with-earth-terminal/

 

But this is a UK socket which would obviously only benefit the minority of customers.

 

From what you’ve stated on this topic, I’m leaning towards using the shunted SMPS and keeping things simple.

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I found where I will be grounding mine (when available) Accessory Ground terminal on my power conditioner (Bryston BIT15)

 

 

Bit15 rear.jpg

[Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers

[Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL)

[Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite

[Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys

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