SGC - sonicTransporter Series and Signalyst HQPlayer 4 Embedded

[soares]

Just to share that my sti5 does upsample  to DSD256 with Roon and HQP but not DSD512 at least with the  filters by default that came with HQO. Using just Roon  it upsamples to DSD512 with a lesser charge than DSD256 with Roon and HQP engaged. But this in not a surprise as HQP seems to be more elaborated that just the DSP from Roon. Any views? I am using an Oppo 205/ ultraRendu/ Tidal. Thanks 

[asdf1000]

Hi JR @vortecjr @agillis

 

Today I stopped RoonServer running on the sonicT i7.

 

I then setup RoonServer on an old iMac (2010, old i5, 8gb of old RAM) 

 

So now HQP Embedded had the sonicT i7 all to herself for DSD512 up-sampling duties, since RoonServer was now running on the old and slow iMac.

 

Nothing else in the system/chain changed apart from moving RoonServer from the sonicT i7 to the old iMac.

 

Network audio backend buffer set to 0ms and volume set to -3dB in HQP Embedded config.

 

And voila, poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s filter at DSD512 working flawlessly with no pops to the ultraRendu and to the Pro-Ject S2 Pre Box DAC.

 

So it appears my sonicT i7 can NOT run RoonServer and HQP Embedded on the same machine doing DSD512 up-sampling.. of course DSD256 is no issue. 

 

For background inforomation, in all previous failed tests with popping sounds, RoonServer on the sonicT i7 was never doing any CPU intensive tasks - no background audio analysis, no Roon DSP, no importing of library etc.
 

Now I just need someone else out there to test and confirm the same.

 

[jamesg11]

Ok, that be really interesting ... for future sonicT buyers, but also for further thoughts re combining items together on the same - whatever - platform.

[asdf1000]

17 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Ok, that be really interesting ... for future sonicT buyers

 

I hope someone can prove me wrong and show that both (Roon and HQP DSD512) can run on a single machine. That way I don't need to buy a separate Roon Core... In the mean time, the old iMac is doing fine as Roon Core, so I'm in no rush to add a separate headless Roon Core.

 

I'm ok with the sonicT i7 not being able to do both Roon Core + HQP at DSD512 on the same machine - if that's what it is then that's what it is.

 

But I was just hoping JR/Andrew could have actually tested it when I asked on page 1...

 

 

[R1200CL]

@Em2016

What does system status say ?

Can you post a pic doing both DSD256 and 512 like this one ?

 

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi JR @vortecjr @agillis

 

Today I stopped RoonServer running on the sonicT i7.

 

I then setup RoonServer on an old iMac (2010, old i5, 8gb of old RAM) 

 

So now HQP Embedded had the sonicT i7 all to herself for DSD512 up-sampling duties, since RoonServer was now running on the old and slow iMac.

 

Nothing else in the system/chain changed apart from moving RoonServer from the sonicT i7 to the old iMac.

 

Network audio backend buffer set to 0ms and volume set to -3dB in HQP Embedded config.

 

And voila, poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s filter at DSD512 working flawlessly with no pops to the ultraRendu and to the Pro-Ject S2 Pre Box DAC.

 

So it appears my sonicT i7 can NOT run RoonServer and HQP Embedded on the same machine doing DSD512 up-sampling.. of course DSD256 is no issue. 

 

For background inforomation, in all previous failed tests with popping sounds, RoonServer on the sonicT i7 was never doing any CPU intensive tasks - no background audio analysis, no Roon DSP, no importing of library etc.
 

Now I just need someone else out there to test and confirm the same.

 

poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s filter at DSD512 working flawlessly...nice. That is a good test. Roon is actually doing a lot of background stuff regardless. Did you you now that the remote display on your controller is actually a real time display being sent over the network? Anyway, can you post an image of Roon - Settings / Library.  

[asdf1000]

8 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s filter at DSD512 working flawlessly...nice. That is a good test. Roon is actually doing a lot of background stuff regardless. Did you you now that the remote display on your controller is actually a real time display being sent over the network? Anyway, can you post an image of Roon - Settings / Library.  

 

Yes I did know that - and as Brian (CTO) says, Roon is very 'bursty'.

 

As an example:

 

I did note that while streaming some very quiet Keith Jarrett on Tidal (quiet songs, to hear the pops more easily) that when I tried to browse Roon library and search Tidal while music was playing, that the popping became much more frequent and more noticeable. When there was no Roon Remote activity (browsing) then the pops were quieter and less frequent. This suggests the spikes in CPU activity caused by Roon library browsing (via Roon Remote) was causing issues when HQP was up-sampling to DSD 512 at the same time, on the same machine. Hence the 'bursty' nature of Roon.

 

8 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Anyway, can you post an image of Roon - Settings / Library.  

 

Which settings? Roon DSP is off, background audio analysis is already complete months ago and on throttle, nothing is being imported as library was setup months ago. So Roon was running as 'lean' as possible and still causing pops - but when Roon got busy (like library browsing), the popping intensified. There's nothing else special with the settings.

 

With this 2 box solution (3 box if you include the ultraRendu) HQP can be set at volume -3dB and 0ms buffer. No problems with poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s filter at DSD512

 

[vortecjr]

52 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

I hope someone can prove me wrong and show that both (Roon and HQP DSD512) can run on a single machine. That way I don't need to buy a separate Roon Core... In the mean time, the old iMac is doing fine as Roon Core, so I'm in no rush to add a separate headless Roon Core.

 

I'm ok with the sonicT i7 not being able to do both Roon Core + HQP at DSD512 on the same machine - if that's what it is then that's what it is.

 

But I was just hoping JR/Andrew could have actually tested it when I asked on page 1...

I was clear that I could not do it. When I can I will be happy to do it. If it doesn't work I'll do what I can to try to make it work. Thats what we do around here.

[vortecjr]

6 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Which settings? Roon DSP is off, background audio analysis is already complete months ago and on throttle, nothing is being imported as library was setup months ago. So Roon was running as 'lean' as possible and still causing pops - but when Roon got busy (like library browsing), the popping intensified. There's nothing else special with the settings.

 

Okay all good. 

[vortecjr]

On a side note: I know everyone wants answers to everything when they ask for it in real time. However, understand that we are small and focused group and sometimes we have to prioritize.

[asdf1000]

Just now, vortecjr said:

On a side note: I know everyone wants answers to everything when they ask for it in real time. However, understand that we are small and focused group and sometimes we have to prioritize.

 

Noted and no problem. I already said yesterday no problem with you testing when you have an i7 in hand.

 

But when Andrew replied to me earlier in the thread that DSD512 works, it doesn't appear it was actually tested with RoonServer on the same machine (which is what I asked...). If the initial reply was 'don't know but we'll test and report back' then no problem. I never asked for an instant answer but I got one that wasn't correct it seems.

 

Anyway I'm convinced I've solved the issue as it is right now. And I know you guys will try to solve it at your end if it's possible. You guys are great. That's not even in doubt here. Just a minor communication bump earlier :-)

 

PS: the combination of HQP DSD512 + ultraRendu + Pro-Ject S2 Pre Box DAC is fantastic (as Jussi has recommended before).

 

[vortecjr]

4 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Noted and no problem. I already said yesterday no problem with you testing when you have an i7 in hand.

 

But when Andrew replied to me earlier in the thread that DSD512 works, it doesn't appear it was actually tested with RoonServer on the same machine (which is what I asked...). If the initial reply was 'don't know but we'll test and report back' then no problem. I never asked for an instant answer but I got one that wasn't correct it seems.

 

Anyway I'm convinced I've solved the issue as it is right now. And I know you guys will try to solve it at your end if it's possible. You guys are great. That's not even in doubt here. Just a minor communication bump earlier :-)

 

PS: the combination of HQP DSD512 + ultraRendu + Pro-Ject S2 Pre Box DAC is fantastic (as Jussi has recommended before).

 

I was talking about Andreas...just kidding Andreas:) There was a ton of coordination taking place behind the scene both pre and post release and my guess is that HQ player is what was tested. The plan was always to send a DSD512 capable iFi DAC and an i7 here for final testing. The only thing I need now is i7 since I was able to get DSD512 sorted out with an ultraDigital and i2s/DSD DAC.   

[asdf1000]

30 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

The plan was always to send a DSD512 capable iFi DAC and an i7 here for final testing. The only thing I need now is i7 since I was able to get DSD512 sorted out with an ultraDigital and i2s/DSD DAC.   

 

All good JR. That's all you needed to say on page 1 when I asked  :-)

 

Everything is cool and blessed.

 

[asdf1000]

35 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@Em2016

What does system status say ?

Can you post a pic doing both DSD256 and 512 like this one ?

 

 

I really don't want to re-visit popping with DSD512 again, until JR has something for me to try later when he's got an i7 to play with and investigate. Things are working well with the sonicT i7 + iMac Roon Core machine so I'll leave everything as is for now.

 

But when I was having problems yesterday with DSD512, I did look at CPU usage status in sonicOrbiter OS. The 'overall' value was fluctuating between 35%-55%. Individual cores going to 99%. I didn't bother to look at DSD256 because it was working without any issues. 

 

Check out my post above about the popping getting worse, when browsing Roon library and searching Tidal etc - probably causing spikes in CPU usage while HQP was simultaneously up-sampling to DSD512.

 

[asdf1000]

@vortecjr

 

Someone on the Roon forum said "Looking back over the linked thread I see I was reporting getting some pops with CUDA off."

 

When you get your sonicT i7 for testing, have a look at CUDA options in HQP. I haven't got a clue how that works and what GPU is inside the sonicT i7 and if it can offload some of the CPU work. Anyway I'm sure you'll talk to @Miska behind the scenes anyway. 

 

Just thought I'd mention that feedback I got from someone who did experience pops, and I'll let you guys try to work it out in the background.

 

Cheers

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

@vortecjr

 

Someone on the Roon forum said "Looking back over the linked thread I see I was reporting getting some pops with CUDA off."

 

When you get your sonicT i7 for testing, have a look at CUDA options in HQP. I haven't got a clue how that works and what GPU is inside the sonicT i7 and if it can offload some of the CPU work. Anyway I'm sure you'll talk to @Miska behind the scenes anyway. 

 

Just thought I'd mention that feedback I got from someone who did experience pops, and I'll let you guys try to work it out in the background.

 

Cheers

I don't see a CUDA option in the HQ player embedded configuration GUI. 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, vortecjr said:

I don't see a CUDA option in the HQ player embedded configuration GUI. 

 

Talk to Jussi please @Miska

 

He told me last week the settings are there.

 

“if you want to adjust multicore or cuda settings, you need to edit the configuration file manually. Some of the settings are not shown in the web configuration because they are usually set by a hardware manufacturer”

 

 

 

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Talk to Jussi please @Miska

 

He told me last week the settings are there.

 

“if you want to adjust multicore or cuda settings, you need to edit the configuration file manually. Some of the settings are not shown in the web configuration because they are usually set by a hardware manufacturer”

It doesn't look like this is the solution because it will not work as needed with the video processor on the unit.

[asdf1000]

17 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

It doesn't look like this is the solution because it will not work as needed with the video processor on the unit.

 

I guessed the same. I'm just throwing out ideas.

 

This solved the issue for another guy with an i7-7700 having pops with RoonServer+HQP on the same machine - but he had a monster GPU.... so CUDA was probably very useful in that case.

 

Anyway I'm sure you'll test a bunch of things when you get your sonicT i7 in hand.

 

[R1200CL]

@vortecjr

 

When will update be available, and do we need to reinstall ?

 

 

 

[agillis]

I just released HQPlayer embedded 4.1.0 for the sonicTransporter. Jussi says this has some fixes that should help. Tell me what happens.

 

To update

 

go to sonicoribter.com -> manage -> apps -> Software Manager -> update

 

There is a also a small fix for HQPlayer on multi-Ethernet interface boxes. If you have one of those uninstall and reinstall HQPlayer.

 

Also make sure you have Settings -> Library -> Background Audio Analysis Speed in Roon set to Throttled.

[diecaster]

I tried to update but the software manager says that HQplayer Server is 4.0.6.......

[R1200CL]

36 minutes ago, diecaster said:

I tried to update but the software manager says that HQplayer Server is 4.0.6.......

 

Maybe uninstalling first ?

 

[agillis]

2 hours ago, diecaster said:

I tried to update but the software manager says that HQplayer Server is 4.0.6.......

 

Try un-installing it first although this should not be required.

[vortecjr]

Be advised that Andrew has uploaded a stable version of HQ Player Embedded for the sonicTransporter series. I recommend that everyone install it. We will continue work on DSD512 on the i7 and in the mean time you can enjoy everything this powerful software has to offer with DSD256.

 

If you do not want to update to the stable version then please post logs for Jussi to review and comment on.