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Good Class D amps ??


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26 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Keep in mind that I’m neurotypical.

 

No indication from your posts that this is true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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Indeed the Crown amps are not bad at all.  President of Sonore has one in occasional backup use, but he much prefers the sound of his new mbl Corona integrated which uses Hypex class D modules.  

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

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38 minutes ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

There are several long threads about the XLS series amps in some AV forum.  Many users got great results on all kinds of speakers including fussy Magneplanars.  These amps (now the XLS2 series) are widely used by home theater installers in expensive elaborate systems.  You are entitled to your opinion, but these amps are working great for too many folks to dismiss.

 

I strongly recommend heading down to some place which caters to musicians like Guitar Center and trying one out.  It can always be returned for a refund, unlike some high end stuff.

 

Great results by people who re-watch Transformers 4 times a week and need to reproduce the sound of breaking glass and robots, not real instruments.

 

Same people who will tell you that the Crown and Pass amps sound identical because someone somewhere failed a double blind test once.

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14 minutes ago, emcdade said:

Great results by people who re-watch Transformers 4 times a week and need to reproduce the sound of breaking glass and robots, not real instruments.

 

Same people who will tell you that the Crown and Pass amps sound identical because someone somewhere failed a double blind test once.

That's excessive.

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On 27.3.2018 at 5:28 AM, sandyk said:

I have yet to see ANY graphs of Class D amplifiers where there isn't a tenfold increase in distortion between 5KHZ and 20KHZ in some cases, and as low as 2KHZ at some modest power levels, to 20KHZ.
Even the flagship Mola Mola Kaluga from Bruno, which starts off at around .0013% to almost 5KHZ at 10W power output, has almost a 100 fold increase in distortion from around 5KHZ to 20KHZ !

 

How about the Theta Prometheus ? ?

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22 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

How about the Theta Prometheus ? ?

Or any other Ncore based amp...

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

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I auditioned a Crown XLS2. It was hideously bad — in many ways it was okay but it’s ability to render inner detail was very lacking, a completely lo-fi experience. Burn-in won’t transform something that bad. Anyone who tells you it’s wonderful isn’t an audiophile.

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13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I auditioned a Crown XLS2. It was hideously bad — in many ways it was okay but it’s ability to render inner detail was very lacking, a completely lo-fi experience. Burn-in won’t transform something that bad. Anyone who tells you it’s wonderful isn’t an audiophile.

I would not argue with that point of view.  As with any amplifier topology, there are a few very, very good amps, and plenty of ordinary ones.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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53 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I auditioned a Crown XLS2. It was hideously bad — in many ways it was okay but it’s ability to render inner detail was very lacking, a completely lo-fi experience. Burn-in won’t transform something that bad. Anyone who tells you it’s wonderful isn’t an audiophile.

It is unfortunate that you continue to spread disinformation.  If I am not an audiophile, so be it.  That's a bit like saying someone is not narcissistic.  People who have invested big bucks in electronics simply can't accept that an inexpensive amp manufactured in quantity is any good despite the enormous investment in designing its chips.

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11 hours ago, STC said:

 

I use XLS with electrostatics SoundLab speakers and regularly demo my setup to many visitors. If anyone telling me that XLS was hideously bad than the problem is not XLS but the listener or his incompetence. Stop insulating a good product which I own and I find it  not in anyway inferior to Classe or Aesthetix. If you are really interested I can also use other really high end amplifiers which are far highly acclaimed than what your using for you to tell the difference.  I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinions but to criticize what I find to be an excellent product without any basis invites others to rebut your ignorance.

 

And if you are curious to find out what others think about XLS with a proper setup here are some quotes for you:-

 

" The clarity of music and precision of  instrument placement were startling.."

 

"..the vocal impressions were stellar"..

 

Good luck googling the quotes.

 

Sounds like people being polite and respecting the effort you put into it.

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I've owned and/or auditioned a number of 50-100W amps in my system, from Bryston, Meitner, Classe, Simaudio and NAD. The Crown had the worst sound of any these, by quite a lot.

 

I invite anyone to not take my word for it, buy a Crown amp. They're quite inexpensive, especially second-hand. I just sold the XLS-1000 for $250.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

I've owned and/or auditioned a number of 50-100W amps in my system, from Bryston, Meitner, Classe, Simaudio and NAD. The Crown had the worst sound of any these, by quite a lot.

 

I invite anyone to not take my word for it, buy a Crown amp. They're quite inexpensive, especially second-hand. I just sold the XLS-1000 for $250.

 

I bought mine from Amazon knowing I can return it no questions asked. I burned it for a a few weeks, not enough for class D, but the sound was so bad I just didn't see it transforming from burn-in. The thing that stood out to me the most was the very poor audio resolution -- by this I mean not just macro-resolution but micro-resolution; the ability to render harmonic structures, basically the ability to make instruments sound something like real instruments. Possibly due to the terrible distortion specs?

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On 4/2/2018 at 3:34 AM, barrows said:

I would not argue with that point of view.  As with any amplifier topology, there are a few very, very good amps, and plenty of ordinary ones.

 

@barrows I value your contributions very much. I am interested in which amps you consider very, very good. Can you list (or PM) them?

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18 minutes ago, barrows said:

.  The Nord does not appear to have the best internal layout/wiring, so it likely could be improved upon as well.  Even so, it produces superb sound as is a

It’s been posted that the Apollon Audio classD amps which are very similar to the Nord, have a superior internal wiring setup. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 hours ago, barrows said:

I am assuming you mean class D amplifiers specifically?  I can only comment on those which i have heard extensively, and this leaves out a few which could be very good.  For example, I have not heard anything using the new ICEPower 1200 AS1 or AS2 modules, which some have said "blow away" Hypex DIY NC-400 builds...

Of what I have heard:

 

The Hypex NC-400 with SMPS 600 (DIY only, but it is so easy, anyone can do it) is very good.  We (Sonore) ran mine (pictured earlier in this thread) at RMAF three years ago with expensive Raidho C 1.1 speakers and the combo sounded great.

 

The Merrill Audio Veritas amps, which use the Hypex NC-1200 modules and SMPS 1200 are better than the NC-400s, I am not sure why, it could just be the result of the extra headroom.  We used the mono blocks of these at RMAF last year with Focal Ultima Diablo speakers and again achieved excellent sound.  Even tube lover Lukasz Fikus (The LampIZator) loved the sound in our room.

 

I have a friend who has the Nord One Up amps.  These use Hypex NC-500 modules and an input buffer/driver stage of their own design.  I heard it with the Sonic Imagery 994 discrete opamps installed.  This is a friend's amp and I listened in my system, with about an hour of warm up (not ideal).  It is also better than my NC-400 amp, where it stands in relation to the Veritas I could not say without direct comparisons.  The Nord does not appear to have the best internal layout/wiring, so it likely could be improved upon as well.  Even so, it produces superb sound as is a fantastic value. 

 

The Mola Mole Kaluga, which uses a custom version of the NC-1200 module with a custom discrete input buffer/driver stage is the best class D amplifier I have heard, and the equal of any amplifier I have heard.  I have only heard this one at RMAF, but I kept going back to the room over and over to listen more and I could find no fault on any kind of music.  It was playing with Vivid Audio Giya speakers (I think G2, but they could have been G3) which are also tremendously good and very revealing.  If I had that kind of cash, I would put the G3 and Kaluga combo in my system and live happily ever after.

 

Of course, any amplifier with this level of resolution, has to be carefully matched to speakers and the system, suffice it to say, not every amplifier is going to sound its best when just dropped into any system.  This applies to all topologies of course.

 

And I am not suggesting that these class D amplifiers are better than the best class A and class A/B models, I am saying that the best of the class D amps are on a level playing field with the best of class A and class A/B amps though.  I have heard all the usual suspects, like Pass X.8 and XA.8 series, Constellation, Soulution, ARC, VTL, Lamm, etc, etc...  I really like Constellation.

 

I heard the Kaluga last year at AXPONA, was unimpressed but I don’t like making definitive judgements in that kind of environment. The statement that a traditional class D topology like the nCore stuff compares with likes of Solution and Constellation sounds like fake news.

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18 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

I heard the Kaluga last year at AXPONA, was unimpressed but I don’t like making definitive judgements in that kind of environment. The statement that a traditional class D topology like the nCore stuff compares with likes of Solution and Constellation sounds like fake news.

I think your fake post intended to compare to Soulution amps.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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