fas42 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, GeneZ said: There is a mystery at work when it comes to music enjoyment. Its got to do with how we feel inside to begin with. The music only finds a welcoming opening to fill. If that opening is not there? It can be a 100,000 system, and be "meh." I don't think it's a mystery - I can be in a foul mood, for a reason unrelated to music and its playback; but if I hear live sounds at that time, or a competent presentation - it may not make me feel better, but i have no trouble still discerning that the desirable qualities are all there; it's just that I'm not in the right frame of mind to go off to la la land. The irksome thing in what I do with audio is that it's not push button available - peak quality is only achieved after spending some time getting everything in the environment exactly right. The compromise that is adequate, is that decent quality is what comes out on first switch on - it does enough to give good enjoyment on most recordings ... that suffcies, at that moment. Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, GeneZ said: The best sounding systems in my life were some of the worst sounding by today's standard. What we see often times today in reviews is like telling a depressed person to have happy thoughts and the depression will go away. A great sounding audio system is 90% how one feels to begin with. One of the symptoms of depression is the inability to enjoy normal things. Can what is considered a great audio system make a depressed person to not be depressed? Or, simply be distracted for a moment in time? If someone could make me feel 14 again? I would have absolutely loved many of the systems I have owned. If it can be done for age 12? Other styles of music would have been fully enjoyable. There is a mystery at work when it comes to music enjoyment. Its got to do with how we feel inside to begin with. The music only finds a welcoming opening to fill. If that opening is not there? It can be a 100,000 system, and be "meh." Gene paragraph one is completely wrong but this isn't the time or place to discuss it. I've owned only a few systems in my life. My the basic parts home and office system have made me happy since 1988. The home system from 1980 to 1988 would still make me happy today with the sound but would be missing digital connections. Finally paragraph three I disagree with too. Music can always find an opening into your heart and soul. When doesn't a $100,000 system sound "meh"? If they are good why wouldn't people would let me play Pet Sounds at the last six shows I've attended? esldude 1 Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, fas42 said: In my world, the speaker are never wrong for the room ... if the sound is 'wrong', then there is a major problem with the playback chain - which is nearly always the electronics. Glad I'm not in your world. In mine I've never heard a panel speaker that played "Already Gone" by the Eagles properly. Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, GeneZ said: What science can only measure is sexual arousal and euphoria... by hormones present in the body. But, that's not love. That is why amplifier measurements are not enough to know which amp will sound the best. Though measurements will be valid in showing which amps will sound bad. Well you missed the point completely. If science can measure love (I've no interest in discussing whether it can or what it is), then whether the measuring person is in love, out of love or never known love is of zero relevance. If it is a quantity/quality that is measurable, then having that quality in the scientist doing the measuring makes no difference. Amplifier measurements are valid to know which amplifier is of highest fidelity to the signal. If you start talking preferences, then it is another thing altogether. And you are displaying exactly and precisely the error in thinking I've mentioned earlier. The confusion this creates is a problem because you aren't thinking rationally about the difference in best sound as determined by individual preference and best fidelity to the signal. Until you get your head around this concept you'll wander aimlessly in the wilderness longer than Moses was in the desert. Trapped by your primacy of feelings for what should be design decisions. Ralf11, Rt66indierock, crenca and 1 other 3 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Hi @Ralf11 per your request you now have moderator permissions for this topic as the OP. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jtwrace Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I got into Class D when I built a pair of Hypex NC400's which replaced my 300wpc Class A Clayton Audio Mono blocks. The madness ensued on AC. Now I currently use the Hypex NC502MP as shown below. barrows 1 W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, jtwrace said: I got into Class D when I built a pair of Hypex NC400's which replaced my 300wpc Class A Clayton Audio Mono blocks. The madness ensued on AC. Now I currently use the Hypex NC502MP as shown below. I have yet to hear a Hypex Class D amplifier. I have heard an ICE amplifier (PS Audio S300) and its very good sounding. I prefer my NuPrime ST-10. If I never heard the ST-10? I believe I could be very happy with the S300. Audience manufactures excellent speakers and cables, was looking at Hypex N core for their own amplifier. As far as I know? Its not being manufactured as of yet. Audience is a highly respected - 'finicky -perfectionist' - audio company. Here is a video preview they gave with a prototype of their Hypex based amplifier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9hWRyrroz8 It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
John769 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 hours ago, jtwrace said: I got into Class D when I built a pair of Hypex NC400's which replaced my 300wpc Class A Clayton Audio Mono blocks. The madness ensued on AC. Now I currently use the Hypex NC502MP as shown below. Nice speakers! I have my eye on 4367's but that's a pipe dream really. Have you ever compared your NC502MP and NC500? I'm about to buy one or the other: Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 20 hours ago, esldude said: Amplifier measurements are valid to know which amplifier is of highest fidelity to the signal. If you start talking preferences, then it is another thing altogether. And you are displaying exactly and precisely the error in thinking I've mentioned earlier. The confusion this creates is a problem because you aren't thinking rationally about the difference in best sound as determined by individual preference and best fidelity to the signal. Until you get your head around this concept you'll wander aimlessly in the wilderness longer than Moses was in the desert. Trapped by your primacy of feelings for what should be design decisions. But the real world behaviour of amplifiers is never measured well enough - if the class D amplifier is injecting nasty current waveforms back into the mains, which is disturbing the behaviour of the other components in the system, then 'ideal' behaviour of the amp is all for nought. Just saying, "all well designed gear doesn't have issues" is not measuring for it. Link to comment
jtwrace Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 hours ago, John769 said: Nice speakers! I have my eye on 4367's but that's a pipe dream really. Have you ever compared your NC502MP and NC500? I'm about to buy one or the other: I used to have and sold my NC500's. You can chase the NC500 if that's what you're after. In my case, I'm not and having one board with the amp/SMPS does have many advantages and that's why I chose that direction. Oh, and get M2's, not 4367's. 😉 W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
kaka89 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I just got myself a ST-10 pairing up with Harbeth M30.1 and sounds very good. Using RME ADI-2 DAC as preamp, directly connected to the power amplifier. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, kaka89 said: I just got myself a ST-10 pairing up with Harbeth M30.1 and sounds very good. Using RME ADI-2 DAC as preamp, directly connected to the power amplifier. I just looked up the RME. Interesting how it flies under the radar... Here is a good review. https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/rme-adi-2-dacheadphone-amplifier-review It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 I'd love to have you do a blind test of it vs. your Yggy... Link to comment
kaka89 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, GeneZ said: I just looked up the RME. Interesting how it flies under the radar... Here is a good review. https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/rme-adi-2-dacheadphone-amplifier-review I bought the RME because... - I want to reduce the number of variables in my system, and RME is perfect because it objectively perfect - I want EQ for room correction - I want loudness control during low volume listening, RME implemented it perfectly So now I only need to mix and match my amp and speaker. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Ralf11 said: I'd love to have you do a blind test of it vs. your Yggy... I do not do blind tests. I live with a piece of equipment for several weeks to become accustomed to it. I will then try the other. It should not be hard to hear a difference if there really is one. If the differences are not obvious? Or, just another flavor? Then its not worth making any change. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, kaka89 said: I bought the RME because... - I want to reduce the number of variables in my system, and RME is perfect because it objectively perfect - I want EQ for room correction - I want loudness control during low volume listening, RME implemented it perfectly So now I only need to mix and match my amp and speaker. Yes.. Loudness control is essential for low level listening. I have gotten in trouble a few times when I mentioned it. For my loudness control I chose to use a Barcus Berry BBE Sonic Maximizer. The bottom end adjustment is dynamic EQ... with a linear boost. Its perfect for my desktop needs. Mine was designed for desktop studio work with balanced connections. WyWires makes great balanced cables. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
esldude Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, GeneZ said: I do not do blind tests. I live with a piece of equipment for several weeks to become accustomed to it. I will then try the other. It should not be hard to hear a difference if there really is one. Also not hard to hear a difference when there really isn't one using this methodology. 1 hour ago, GeneZ said: If the differences are not obvious? Or, just another flavor? Then its not worth making any change. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Quote Also not hard to hear a difference when there really isn't one using this methodology. In some cases, yes. But not when its obvious. You need to learn something.... https://www.zdnet.com/article/research-shows-musicians-have-better-hearing/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28266-musicians-brains-fire-symmetrically-when-they-listen-to-music/ It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
John769 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 hours ago, jtwrace said: I used to have and sold my NC500's. You can chase the NC500 if that's what you're after. In my case, I'm not and having one board with the amp/SMPS does have many advantages and that's why I chose that direction. Are those advantages mainly to do with using active crossovers (on your M2's) or other reasons you prefer the MP's? Your feedback is appreciated..😉 Link to comment
jtwrace Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 hours ago, John769 said: Are those advantages mainly to do with using active crossovers (on your M2's) or other reasons you prefer the MP's? Your feedback is appreciated..😉 Actually, that type of design where having the amp and SMPS on the same board is an advantage to any speaker requiring amplification. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
esldude Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 20 hours ago, GeneZ said: In some cases, yes. But not when its obvious. You need to learn something.... https://www.zdnet.com/article/research-shows-musicians-have-better-hearing/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28266-musicians-brains-fire-symmetrically-when-they-listen-to-music/ No one can hear a difference that isn't there. And until you have the study showing musicians aren't humans, we'll know when there is no difference they are prone to hearing one anyway. Plus equating audiophiles with musicians is leap in logic. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Class D people. Concentrate... Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Why only them? ...... It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
Veovis Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 No mention of Mytek's Brooklyn AMP yet? Been using them, in mono configuration, for a while and like them. The lack of coloration was something that struck me from the beginning (or rather after a quite hefty burn-in period). The AMPs don't even try to smooth things over with bad recordings/mastering or in any way "sweeten" the sound. It took a while to get used to this characteristic but now I really appreciate it. Whether or not this quality has do do with the class D thing I don't know and it doesn't matter. They sound great, period. Part of my decision to try out a class D amp was the small foot-print thing. Don't really know if this was valid though, since the AMPs get quite hot and in my experience like to be powered on all the time to sound their best. John769 1 Link to comment
satbox Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Hi, Another class D power amplifiers integrator: https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/power-amplifiers John769 1 Link to comment
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