Kuja Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Ok, whatever! ...But this old newsletter could be interesting, coming directly from the maker of professional audio software. Does this mean that some differences in Core Audio or in the ways how OS X handles audio over USB CAN exist? https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=8104091&postcount=42 Well everyone dismissing the OP may just eat their words.From NI horses mouth: Quote: Dear Native Instruments user, This newsletter provides important information about the compatibility of Native Instruments hardware products with MacOS 10.8, as well as with the current-generation MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models equipped with USB 3.0 ports.Due to USB audio driver issues present in recent versions of OSX, some NI products will experience a degraded audio signal when used with OS X 10.8 "Mountain Lion" on any Apple hardware. The same issue occurs with the current-generation MacBooks under 10.7 using USB 3.0. Specifically, the following NI products are affected: AUDIO 2 DJ / AUDIO 4 DJ / AUDIO 8 DJ AUDIO KONTROL 1 GUITAR RIG MOBILE GUITAR RIG SESSION KORE 1 RIG KONTROL 2 / RIG KONTROL 3 TRAKTOR AUDIO 2 TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 Native Instruments has provided beta drivers* for these hardware devices to make them fully compatible with the newest Apple technologies. If you own one of the affected devices and run the latest MacOS version 10.8, or have a MacBook with USB 3.0, you can download and install the beta drivers from our unprotected drivers and updates page.... Best regards, The Native Instruments team Not sure what it means but I won't be upgrading until NI can come up with a non-beta driver for my laptops Audio10.Also RME were fairly slow in upgrading the Fireface 400 driver to Lion so I'll be waiting for them as well Link to comment
Kuja Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 ...There are lots of posts like this from professional audio users: https://discussions.apple.com/message/22506466#22506466 Why audio sounds different in the Mountain Lion over 10.6 Hi I just upgraded my system OS 10.6.8 to the latest 10.8.4, and I found that audio on the 10.8.4 sounds different. I did some tests and I can say that audio when listening on the 10.8.4 has less bass content and the hi-mids are more agressive. I running the audio studio on my Mac Pro and this was a big dissapointment for me. Also I rendered audio file from Logic Pro 9 on the both system and they are the same, but when you listening on the 10.6.8 it sounds correct while on 10.8.4 sounds different. I have the same audio drivers from RME Fireface 800 on both systems. In tests I used identical Logic arrangement file on both systems. I just don't like the sound on the new system at all. It is worse than it was on the 10.6.8. I switched to the Snow Leopard again and I regret that I puchased your latest OS. Why it is done? Apple? https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=9250295&postcount=24 I find this very interesting. I'm not one for jumping on to these sorts of bandwagons - and certainly never get into the discussions about DAWs sounding different , etc etc - but now I wonder.I am building up a 10.8 drive to prepare for my transition in the studio from 10.6.8... Clean install,... But as I add plugs and Vi's into the new system- i.ll fire up one of the DAWs to visage what I've done so far... Have PT10, LP9 and X, DP8.... Tested some audio in DP and LPX and from my mix position... where I sit for hours a day,,, something didnt sound right.,, mixes that I had been working on... Sounded maybe a bit thin... ... So I decided to google and boom... Right to Gearslutz. - While I am not adding fuel to the fire- it's ironic that I felt something was off.FYI - I'm running a MoTu pCI424System with a 2408mkIII, 2x24ios, and a 308.Thinking that is this really were an issue - there would be a serious outcry about this.,,,Lets keep this conversation going. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/prorecordingworkshop/osx-lion-10-7-sound-quality-vs-snow-leopard-10-6-t4268554.html#p2516 16 Nov 2011, 09:14 #1 I bought a new computer that came with OSX Lion installed and immediately heard something weird with the audio. It is hard to describe, I can only describe it as brighter and a little phony sounding. It can be confusing at first because sometimes brightness is perceived as "better" but it is more of a technical issue than just a simple sonic preference. I then did some tests switching Snow Leopard and Lion Printing the identical files as well as listening. Lion was definitely the issue. The issue happens with any audio software that I used with Lion and was not isolated to any particular software. The problem was most problematic when recording. I really gave Lion a try but it became even more apparent while mastering that its a problem. At this point I find it unusable for mastering and staying with Snow Leopard. Link to comment
Ipoci Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I'm an Apple laptop user from ages and I experienced multiple times the sound differencies using various OS X releases on top of the same hardware via external USB/SD card boot. After I spent many hours playing with different systems (never tried super aggressive process removal, just optimization scripts) I ended up with the idea that the results for me can be classified in the range of good/good-enought ... but never in the top class. If you want to have an idea about the Mac capabilities running a tiny (and ugly) software, burn a wtf-play USB key and boot the computer. It's an interesting experience ... So, finally I use a non optimized OS X for easy listening sessions but the wtfplay USB key is always ready for the serious one! Have a nice day, Massimiliano Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 using the internal DAC on your laptop or what? Link to comment
semente Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 On 19/03/2018 at 12:48 AM, wgscott said: Me too. I am also using this (10.11) on my various computers at work. I've updated a few to 10.12 and then to 10.13, but I see no advantages, and there are, as @Ralf11 mentioned, a bunch of bugs. Also, if you are using Audirvana's direct mode, 10.11 is the last one it is compatible with (unless you want to recycle the older kernel extension -- so why upgrade?). Same here, although I only did so (was forced to) because my computers are not used exclusively for audio (couldn't submit my tax return) or I'd have stayed on 10.9. "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Ipoci Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 7:10 PM, Ralf11 said: using the internal DAC on your laptop or what? External usb DAC of course ... Have a nice day, Massimiliano Link to comment
Lio_B Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 You are all talking about SQ difference between OS using USB output, is it the same with FireWire audio output ? thanks My system Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Lio_B said: You are all talking about SQ difference between OS using USB output, is it the same with FireWire audio output ? thanks No idea. Not many Firewire interface DAC's out there besides Weiss. Maybe Weiss owners have some insight on this. Hytek Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 What is the best power cord to use with ver. 10.13 ?? Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 3/19/2018 at 3:24 PM, Kuja said: In my case there is a significant SQ difference between different OSX versions: This is why I'm still using Mountain Lion 10.8.2. Even 10.8.5 sounded worse in my case. I'm using a USB Audio Class compliant device (M2Tech HiFace Two), so maybe this is the reason - no drivers from device's manufacturer, just different OSX versions having different versions of USB audio libraries. I finally managed to get a copy of 10.8.2. Wow! So much better than anything else! Thanks for the tip. Hytek Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 3/19/2018 at 5:12 PM, Kuja said: The OSX version is the only difference (the drivers are part of the OS). Now I have two HDDs in my dual boot MacMini. El Capitan for work, ML 10.8.2 for music. With the same versions of playback software (Amarra and Audirvana) installed, there is a significant difference in sound quality between the two OS-es. Finally got a copy of ML 10.8.2. You are so correct! Anyone should be able to hear the difference. Hytek Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 3/20/2018 at 1:02 PM, Kuja said: I have a dual boot MacMini with two different OSX versions, that I can switch to and from at any time, so I'm not speaking from some distant memory. The playback software and audio settings are identical in both OSX versions that I'm using. Different OSX versions do sound different in my case. Mountain Lion 10.8.2 (and 10.8.3) is noticeably better sounding than all of the newer OSX versions that i have tried. Maybe this is hardware specific, maybe some audio devices that are using their proprietary drivers (not relying on OSX inbuilt USB audio support) are working fine with the latest OSX versions (or their drivers are "tuned" to newer versions). With great difficulty I finally managed to obtain a version of 10.8.0 and then the update to 10.8.2. This gives the same improvement I heard almost 7 years ago while using a friend's MBP running ML. Everything is subtly more refined and musical or should I say, enjoyable! Apple only lets you download the 10.8.2 or 10.8.3 updates. The only full install they have posted is for 10.8.5, which does not have the same musical quality. You'll need a 10.8.0 install disc to try this out, but it certainly is worth it. I enthusiastically recommend it to anyone. Hytek Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 8 hours ago, hytechrednek said: With great difficulty I finally managed to obtain a version of 10.8.0 and then the update to 10.8.2. This gives the same improvement I heard almost 7 years ago while using a friend's MBP running ML. Everything is subtly more refined and musical or should I say, enjoyable! Apple only lets you download the 10.8.2 or 10.8.3 updates. The only full install they have posted is for 10.8.5, which does not have the same musical quality. You'll need a 10.8.0 install disc to try this out, but it certainly is worth it. I enthusiastically recommend it to anyone. What player do you use? Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 On 9/11/2020 at 4:02 AM, AnotherSpin said: What player do you use? A+ Pure Music, Amarra, Decibel, Bit Perfect, Fidelia, iTunes, Cog, JRiver, etc Hytek Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 hour ago, hytechrednek said: A+ Pure Music, Amarra, Decibel, Bit Perfect, Fidelia, iTunes, Cog, JRiver, etc I see. Now, your preference for old versions of OS X would be understood. Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 16 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: I see. Now, your preference for old versions of OS X would be understood. My preference is for musical sound. Age has nothing to do with it. Hytek Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 1 hour ago, hytechrednek said: My preference is for musical sound. Age has nothing to do with it. Of course. Nevertheless, one may encounter (or not) certain issues while trying to use latest build of advanced player, such as HQ Player on archaic software. Or, when trying to use archaic player, such as Cog on latest OSX. Hope you will enjoy your sound. Link to comment
hytechrednek Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 12 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: Of course. Nevertheless, one may encounter (or not) certain issues while trying to use latest build of advanced player, such as HQ Player on archaic software. Or, when trying to use archaic player, such as Cog on latest OSX. Hope you will enjoy your sound. Of course I would prefer using a later Mac OS and realize there are limitations that will be encountered with 10.8.x but the benefits outweigh the liabilities. I'm using A+ or Amarra primarily. Cog was mentioned just to cover the breadth of all the things I've tried and have in the playback arsenal. None of these software packages bring to the party what 10.8.2 and 10.8.3 provide. It's that significant! kerisabe 1 Hytek Link to comment
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