Article: dCS Rossini DAC Review

[joelha]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Joel - Hope all is well in your life since we last talked. 

 

Do you have the version of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan I used in the review?

Hey Chris,

 

I have that SACD however, until I get home, I can't tell if it's the MoFi version.

 

Maybe MoFi's is the only version.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Joel

[barrows]

Nice review Chris.  What a cool system set up with the Rossini driving the direct input of the Constellation amps.  I have seen John Atkinson's measurements of most dCS DACs, and they all have very beefy output stages and driving capabilities, so I was not surprised that this approach worked, but it is always good to have actual listening confirmation that there was no loss of body/substance driving the Constellation amps through their "direct" input.  A nice simple system with just Rossini/Constellation and speakers... nice!

[firedog]

17 hours ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

I have a dim view of products this expensive where the only possible difference with far less expensive products is the elusive and completely subjective pursuit of sound quality.  High end audio has become a carnival of many small manufacturers selling tiny quantities of very expensive items.  My gripe is not with this product alone, but with the entire high end scene.  Remember the $3,000 amp which got great reviews and turned out to be made from $150 worth of components?

In audio today there is fantastic relatively low and mid priced equipment.  X number of years ago it would have been considered "state of the art". Today it just very good, but not state of the art. 

There are some rip-offs in the high end. That doesn't mean all of it is a rip-off. 

 

There's no question that the diminishing return curve in audio is very steep. Just on performance. And that doesn't take into account  that in the high-end you end up paying a lot of money for looks, and for (in many cases) hand assembly in a high wage rate location. 

That pumps up the price way above the pure parts/performance cost.

 

With the very high end, you do get better performance, but the increased performance is small compared to the increase in price. Every person has their point at which they say the increase in price needed to get the next bit of performance "isn't worth it". 

 

I've got little doubt that the 24K MSB DAC is better than the 9-10K model. Is it's sound 2.5 times better? Surely not. But just as surely, it is better. 

 

No point in arguing at what point that bigger spend "stops making sense". 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, joelha said:

Hey Chris,

 

I have that SACD however, until I get home, I can't tell if it's the MoFi version.

 

Maybe MoFi's is the only version.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Joel

 

Just wondering if you've had the chance to listen to such a great version of this recording. 

 

 

[joelha]

38 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Just wondering if you've had the chance to listen to such a great version of this recording. 

 

Well, now you're going to force me to find out.

 

I'll check and let you know.

 

Thanks for asking.

 

Joel

[ted_b]

5 hours ago, joelha said:

I have that SACD however, until I get home, I can't tell if it's the MoFi version.

 

Maybe MoFi's is the only version.

There are 3 SACD versions of this great recording.

1) the original from 2003 (Sony Legacy)

2) the Mofi 2012 stereo

3) the Mofi 2017 mono

Edit:  Oh, and the first notes have the guitar in the right channel on both the original and the 2012 MoFi.  It comes from the middle on the Mono Mofi 

[joelha]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Just wondering if you've had the chance to listen to such a great version of this recording. 

 

 

It pains me to say this, Chris, but it appears I don't have the MoFi version. Please don't tell me I have to get that version.

 

Joel

[joelha]

9 minutes ago, ted_b said:

There are 3 SACD versions of this great recording.

1) the original from 2003 (Sony Legacy)

2) the Mofi 2012 stereo

3) the Mofi 2017 mono

As always, you're good, Ted.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Joel

[ted_b]

10 minutes ago, joelha said:

As always, you're good, Ted.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Joel

Email is often a good thing. 

[Priaptor]

5 hours ago, barrows said:

Nice review Chris.  What a cool system set up with the Rossini driving the direct input of the Constellation amps.  I have seen John Atkinson's measurements of most dCS DACs, and they all have very beefy output stages and driving capabilities, so I was not surprised that this approach worked, but it is always good to have actual listening confirmation that there was no loss of body/substance driving the Constellation amps through their "direct" input.  A nice simple system with just Rossini/Constellation and speakers... nice!

Hi Barrows. 

 

Same here. I love it. I’m going direct from my MSB Select II into a CH Precision and it’s fantastic, simple and one less piece of gear!

 

When Vince from MSB was bragging to me about the pre stage of the MSB I pretty much ignored him. I mean how could it beat my REF10?  Reluctantly I went direct into my then ARC GS150 and was literally blown away. The difference wasn’t close. It also pleased my pocketbook in helping make take the upgrade.  

 

For all digital system it’s a dream although MSB does allow extra inputs (at a steep price) for vinyl lovers. 

[Priaptor]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

In audio today there is fantastic relatively low and mid priced equipment.  X number of years ago it would have been considered "state of the art". Today it just very good, but not state of the art. 

There are some rip-offs in the high end. That doesn't mean all of it is a rip-off. 

 

There's no question that the diminishing return curve in audio is very steep. Just on performance. And that doesn't take into account  that in the high-end you end up paying a lot of money for looks, and for (in many cases) hand assembly in a high wage rate location. 

That pumps up the price way above the pure parts/performance cost.

 

With the very high end, you do get better performance, but the increased performance is small compared to the increase in price. Every person has their point at which they say the increase in price needed to get the next bit of performance "isn't worth it". 

 

I've got little doubt that the 24K MSB DAC is better than the 9-10K model. Is it's sound 2.5 times better? Surely not. But just as surely, it is better. 

 

No point in arguing at what point that bigger spend "stops making sense". 

Hey FD

 

i agree with you. Having been a very happy MSB owner for years now I can say my initial experience with what I was going to buy, the Analog was very positive. Then my devil pal put a IV plus in my system and I was hooked. Of course it wasn’t worth the difference in cost but no doubt there was a difference and not subtle. 

 

Having lived with IV plus and then V (not a huge sonic improvement moving to the V) I will say it was a quantum move to the Select II. Again was it worth the cost?  In my case the big upgrade expense was significantly offset by being able to sell my REF10 and to me the sonic benefits are a significant leap forward to what was already tremendous. 

[PeterG]

7 hours ago, Priaptor said:

But Peter, his comments were using an assumption that just aren't true.  The TADs CR1 are wonderful speakers, so good that they have stood the test of time and unlike the Magico and Wilson merry go round, haven't had to be upgraded every other month.  His preamp and amp are also top notch.  It is not as though he is testing the Rossini in a sub-optimal system where he can't extract all that the Rossini has to offer.

 

I can't speak for his setup including his room.  The TADs are on my shortlist if I were to move to smaller place as they are remarkable.  I owned early Constellation amps with Magico Q1 and while I didn't like the Constellation (or Magico), the newer stuff is totally different in the same league as the Soulutions and CH stuff.  And while I didn't like it because it didn't do the things I like in a system, it doesn't mean I couldn't appreciate the merits.

 

I think it would be worth it for you guys at a show to go listen to dCS.  They make remarkable equipment and have been one of the pioneers in digital not just for the end-user but also in the professional world.  

 

People can have their preferences and I sure have mine, but to dismiss the Rossini and all dCS as Amir did with the assumption that Chris's system can't reveal the "deficiencies" in the dCS is to me,  absurd. Again, I can understand WHY someone may prefer a different DAC, whether it be more or less expensive than the Rossini but to dismiss outright, in my opinion, is nuts.  It's a great piece.  I think one can have preferences but still recognize something that sounds great, whether they can afford it or not and/or whether its meets their goals or not

 

Priaptor--thanks for your helpful post. 

 

One of the funny things about audiophiledom, is that we are often using different levels of scrutiny to describe things.  When Amir said the dCS was weak, I didn't think he meant that it did not sound as good as my Yggy in my $30K system.  I thought he meant it was not great for a $100K+ system.  Similarly, when you criticize Magico and Wilson, I assume you only mean they have some weaknesses relative to other excellent speakers.  I trust that all the components in Chris's system are excellent, but I also appreciate that even great systems have weaknesses when compared to other great systems.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Solstice380]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Just wondering if you've had the chance to listen to such a great version of this recording. 

 

 

 

The stereo or mono SACD?

[ted_b]

33 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

The stereo or mono SACD?

Clearly the stereo; otherwise that "guitar out of the right speaker" comment means he is missing a signal in his left speaker. 

[PeterG]

On 3/17/2018 at 7:59 PM, firedog said:

Others will jump all over me, but if I was starting a Dylan collection, the two albums I'd want are Highway 61 Revisited and Blood on the Tracks.

 

What you should really get is, The Original Mono Recordings, Box Set:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Mono-Recordings-Bob-Dylan/dp/B003XRDYX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521330944&sr=8-1&keywords=dylan+original+mono+recordings+CD

 

The sound is fantastic and the entire 8 disc set is a bargain. I think you can get if for even less than the Amazon price if you look. And really, the SQ here is competitive with any other version you will spend your money on. You don't have to buy super expensive audiophile versions to get audiophile level sound. 

 

OK, FD--I'm jumping all over you--thanks for nothing!  Like I need to drop yet ANOTHER 100  bucks on additional versions of Dylan that I already own?  Why not suggest MQA too? 

 

Now that that's out of my system--I checked out reviews of the mono set, then played my beloved stereo Freewheelin'.  WTF?  He's in 3 pieces!  (It's amazing the things we take as given until someone points out the painfully obvious.)  Box set arrives Thursday.  I can't wait!  Thanks!

 

Mig--in addition to FD's excellent suggestions, I would add Desire as an accessible Dylan album as you are wading in.  Also--it's really helpful and fun to have the lyrics, either from one of the books or online.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyrics-1961-2012-Bob-Dylan/dp/1451648766/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521502665&sr=1-1&keywords=dylan+lyrics

[Ralf11]

the lyrics are on his web site

 

*** are any of the SACDs or other stereo releases as good as the mono ones?

[miguelito]

On 3/17/2018 at 7:59 PM, firedog said:

 

Others will jump all over me, but if I was starting a Dylan collection, the two albums I'd want are Highway 61 Revisited and Blood on the Tracks.

 

What you should really get is, The Original Mono Recordings, Box Set:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Mono-Recordings-Bob-Dylan/dp/B003XRDYX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521330944&sr=8-1&keywords=dylan+original+mono+recordings+CD

 

The sound is fantastic and the entire 8 disc set is a bargain. I think you can get if for even less than the Amazon price if you look. And really, the SQ here is competitive with any other version you will spend your money on. You don't have to buy super expensive audiophile versions to get audiophile level sound. 

Got these and ripped them. I am a sucker for original and improved versions. Listening to Freewheelin, and it’s interesting to hear the mono version, but the DSD MoFi download is absolutely stunning by comparison. Fun to try both! 

 

One funny bit in the stereo version: the mic for Dylan’s voice and harmonica is obviously the same, but the “stereo” mix wanted to put the harmonica on the left channel, the voice slightly left of center. In “Bob Dylan’s Blues” you can hear he says a few things right when he’s playing the harmonica, and you here his voice where the harmonica is... Pitfalls of stereofying a single mic!  

[miguelito]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

the lyrics are on his web site

 

*** are any of the SACDs or other stereo releases as good as the mono ones?

MoFi DSD download is stunning. Lyrics are in Roon, btw...

[soupdujour]

If I missed this, please forgive me.  But where does one find the MoFi DSD files for purchase and download?

[rando]

I'm thinking miguelito is talking about the original version available as a DSD64 download on acoustic sounds and Chris ripped the MoFi SACD.  

 

Needing a copy of the lyrics to make sense of a Dylan album was good for a laugh.

[Solstice380]

10 hours ago, ted_b said:

Clearly the stereo; otherwise that "guitar out of the right speaker" comment means he is missing a signal in his left speaker. 

 

Doh!  Thanks Ted.  I wonder how the new mono SACD is.  

 

You going to AXPONA?

[miguelito]

9 hours ago, miguelito said:

MoFi DSD download is stunning. Lyrics are in Roon, btw...

This is the DSD download I purchased:

 

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98485/Bob_Dylan-The_Freewheelin_Bob_Dylan-DSD_Single_Rate_28MHz64fs_Download

 

However, it doesn't look to be a MoFi release. Roon's pick of the MoFi artwork threw me off. The sound quality is stunning regardless.

[esimms86]

Wouldn’t the DSD downloads be sourced from the Sony SACD box set?

[Solstice380]

6 minutes ago, esimms86 said:

Wouldn’t the DSD downloads be sourced from the Sony SACD box set?

 

Yes, it has a SON item number.  As far as we know, MoFi doesn’t offer anything as a download.   

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, rando said:

Needing a copy of the lyrics to make sense of a Dylan album was good for a laugh.

Don't be certain you'll be able to make sense of them even with the lyrics