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ChrisG

JCAT's $5000 switch

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20 hours ago, Albrecht said:

NO MEASUREMENTS ON ANY ONE DEVICE CAN EVER EVER EVER EVER DETERMINE how the overall system will behave!!!!

Of course not!

But if two systems sound different, there will be measurement differences.

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36 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Of course not!

But if two systems sound different, there will be measurement differences.

Of course, not every measurement will show an obvious difference. You have to find the right parameter to measure. Two cars with vastly different performance may well weigh the same.

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3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Of course not!

But if two systems sound different, there will be measurement differences.

Yes of course, - there are always measurement differences. The issue is where & what & what tools one is using to make the measurements.


Figures don't lie, but liars figure. And certainly those measurements that are most often deployed; are often used to "sell" a conclusion that is erroneous and varies from the results of better science.

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7 hours ago, marce said:

Your reality is inverted I am afraid, ears only subjective opinions are pretty much just that, opinions without some sort of confirmation...

Funny all that testing and measurements that EE's and other people do in physics, other fields of engineering are worthless, gosh even the ability to type on an Audiophile forum must have happened by accident. Think about your rather silly comment next time your in a plane or a car, or god forbid an operating theatre hooked up to the life support system, be glad that silly engineers tested, tested and tested again, getting confirmation from measurements and results.

Regarding Ethernet, been working on that since it was  transmitted via co-ax with BNC connectors, it was digital then, still is digital, just go quicker and better, I wonder how!!!!!

It is clear that you don't understand the scientific method or have an understanding of how the scientific method is applied, or how science advances. The process of forming and testing of  hypothesis can certainly, (and indeed it is the foundation of how science advances), be applied to a multitude of phenomenon.

"opinions without some sort of confirmation"

LOL... confirmed and proven to the satisfaction of testers with multiple & consistent observations over time.

 

"Think about your rather silly comment next time your in a plane or a car, or god forbid an operating theatre hooked up to the life support system, be glad that silly engineers tested, tested and tested again, getting confirmation from measurements and results"'

 

My silliness? LOL, - your ridiculous analogy has no relevance whatsoever. The subjective experience of listening to music is not a "life and death" phenomenon, - and just because we would never apply the same rigor that we would with flight: the scientific method can be of benefit.

 

In the medical field, - certainly science and measurements definitely have there limitations, - and certainly there is a wide variety of testing that occurs beyond measurements.

 

In the subjective experience of listening to music, where CERTAIN TYPES OF MEASUREMENTS are cursory, and the goal and the experience is subjective, - ignoring this aspect of scientific investigation is what is silly! This smacks of anti-science, cult-of-personality, PREACHING, - where the foolish EE applies one element of others' knowledge to an area an situation where it is not applicable. A whole section of testing methodology is ignored, - if you wanted to get better results, - you would conduct BETTER tests.

 

This would lead any person to conclude that the engineer is more interested in criticizing those that want to enhance the listening experience, - than actually enhancing the experience for themselves. Cheerleading for naysaying engineers is in no way engaging in any kind of "science."

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17 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

When did John Swenson comment on this $5,000 switch ??

 

I missed it - can you post where that is?

 

Never said that he did, nor implied it. Read much? I used John as an example of someone who engages in the scientific method to illustrate my point.

 

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3 hours ago, mansr said:

Of course, not every measurement will show an obvious difference. You have to find the right parameter to measure. Two cars with vastly different performance may well weigh the same.

Right, and in the case of these complex systems, most all measurements are inadequate and more rigorous and better testing is needed, - comparative listening.

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45 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

 

Never said that he did, nor implied it. Read much? I used John as an example of someone who engages in the scientific method to illustrate my point.

 

 

You certainly did imply it.

 

I could say "Write much?" but won't stoop to your own level of personal attacks.

 

You also seem to think you understand science but your post seem at variance with that.  What is your education in science or engineering and how do you use it?


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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6 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Of course not!

But if two systems sound different, there will be measurement differences.

The problem will be in finding an audiophile that can hear the difference, so that a skilled engineer with the correct test equipment can on the spot test for differences.

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14 hours ago, Albrecht said:

It is clear that you don't understand the scientific method or have an understanding of how the scientific method is applied, or how science advances. The process of forming and testing of  hypothesis can certainly, (and indeed it is the foundation of how science advances), be applied to a multitude of phenomenon.

"opinions without some sort of confirmation"

LOL... confirmed and proven to the satisfaction of testers with multiple & consistent observations over time.

 

"Think about your rather silly comment next time your in a plane or a car, or god forbid an operating theatre hooked up to the life support system, be glad that silly engineers tested, tested and tested again, getting confirmation from measurements and results"'

 

My silliness? LOL, - your ridiculous analogy has no relevance whatsoever. The subjective experience of listening to music is not a "life and death" phenomenon, - and just because we would never apply the same rigor that we would with flight: the scientific method can be of benefit.

 

In the medical field, - certainly science and measurements definitely have there limitations, - and certainly there is a wide variety of testing that occurs beyond measurements.

 

In the subjective experience of listening to music, where CERTAIN TYPES OF MEASUREMENTS are cursory, and the goal and the experience is subjective, - ignoring this aspect of scientific investigation is what is silly! This smacks of anti-science, cult-of-personality, PREACHING, - where the foolish EE applies one element of others' knowledge to an area an situation where it is not applicable. A whole section of testing methodology is ignored, - if you wanted to get better results, - you would conduct BETTER tests.

 

This would lead any person to conclude that the engineer is more interested in criticizing those that want to enhance the listening experience, - than actually enhancing the experience for themselves. Cheerleading for naysaying engineers is in no way engaging in any kind of "science."

As we say up in t'north what a load of twaddle...

13 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Right, and in the case of these complex systems, most all measurements are inadequate and more rigorous and better testing is needed, - comparative listening.

LOL

How do you test an Ethernet switch by comparative listening!!!!!!!

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High Fidelity have tested the M12 SWITCH GOLD. I interpreted his impressions like it was better than a generic switch, but not a day and night chance.

 

On the topic of engineering of gear for audio…

 

“I wonder why there is no consistent knowledge base on this subject. After all, the switch you brought, or the Fidata server, were designed and made by engineers, is not the work of a crazy audiophile and his soldering iron. And yet most engineers do not accept the results of these observations and experiments. I work with various companies and know how they work. The truth is that after designing a solid product, based on hard engineering knowledge, you have to assess the results via listening sessions. And only this stage allows you to prepare a product that really changes the sound in the direction that is required in our industry, i.e. towards real music. You can not jump this stage, the audio equipment is used for listening to music, it has to inspire an emotional responce in listeners.

 

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-823&lang=en 

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I'll be interested in hearing what the Swansonians come up with...

 

I rather doubt it will cost $5,000


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I'll be interested in hearing what the Swansonians come up with...

 

I rather doubt it will cost $5,000

 

Click on Superdads replie to see what he wrote about their switch.

 


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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9 minutes ago, diecaster said:

What I find interesting is that John Swenson says that he still does not know all the mechanisms that degrade audio quality over Ethernet yet he and Alex are working on a switch that will claim to cleanup/isolate Ethernet. How can you claim to do the later when you don't yet know all there is to know about the former?

 

It sounds like you have an issue with how all human progress has occurred. ?


My system here

 

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24 minutes ago, Cormorant said:

 

It sounds like you have an issue with how all human progress has occurred. ?

 

It would appear you have an issue with reading comprehension. You might want to read what I wrote and understand it BEFORE you mouth off.

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50 minutes ago, lmitche said:

 Nice review, congratulations and thanks for sharing.

 

+1 on that. 

 


AudioLinux NUCi7DNKE server > AudioLinux NUCi7DNBE endpoint (both powered by dual rail Sean Jacobs DC3) > PS Audio Directstream DAC > Hegel P20 Pre > PS Audio M700 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

Isn't he a guy that can hear the differences in various 3 foot (out of 328 foot allowed) Ethernet cabling? Also won't validate his own hearing? Also disabled comments for his entire site?

 

I'll trust Darko's ears when he trusts them.

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well, he hears what he hears. But I agree, disabling comments for his entire site is pretty lame-O 

 

 


ChrisG

Seattle, WA

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I'm liking your comment about reviewers validating their hearing, not because I'm looking forward to the day you fall over dead!


ChrisG

Seattle, WA

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On 3/30/2018 at 12:07 AM, marce said:

As we say up in t'north what a load of twaddle...

LOL

How do you test an Ethernet switch by comparative listening!!!!!!!

I am fairly certain that someone who posts twaddle like you just posted won't be able to figure out....

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