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BIS - e|classical vs. Qobuz

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I've noticed that many BIS recordings which are available at Qobuz as "16-Bit CD Quality" only are also available at e|classical "STUDIO QUALITY" 24/44.1

 

Does anyone know if the 24/44.1 version is a repackaged version of the Redbook or if it's true 24-bit?


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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If the recording was made in the last 15 years it might even be available as SACD.  Certainly the majority of Osmo Vänskä's individual recordings are.

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Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>RPi4 (dietpi)>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: (1) CAPS Pipeline>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three .(2) CAPS>ifi iDAC SPDIF>Kii Control.

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: RB Pi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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On 2018-03-04 at 8:31 PM, firedog said:

Meaning the  http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html link at eclassical tells you the original sample rate of the recording was 96k. 

The other versions are downsamples. 

 

I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years.

They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96.

 

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4 hours ago, chrille said:

 

I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years.

They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96.

 

Certainly in recent times that seems to be true, although the eClassical site does sell various formats. 

BIS told me that some of their  early 90's recordings that weren't in high res were sold as upsampled files to hi-res download sites as "hi-res" . This was done without their permission, but apparently there isn't  anything they can do about it. 


Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>RPi4 (dietpi)>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: (1) CAPS Pipeline>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three .(2) CAPS>ifi iDAC SPDIF>Kii Control.

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: RB Pi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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7 hours ago, chrille said:

 

I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years.

They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96.

 

That is correct.  They have 8 or so SACDs that were recorded in DSD; the rest were 24/44.1.  Then they played around with 24 bit sample rates (there may be one or two 24/88s) until finalizing on 24/96 for the past many years. 

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There were a few recordings (from the 2002-2004 period) that were originally 20/44.1, and were padded to 24 bits for eClassical. 24/44.1 was their dominant recording format from roughly 2005-2011, so there are still about as many albums in the BIS catalog in that format as there are 24/96. Besides several recordings in 24/88.2, there are also a few in 24/48, but I don't think either of those were ever the label's preferred recording format.

 

I've only once downloaded a BIS recording from eClassical that appeared to be upsampled: the first Schumann violin sonata (with Wallin). The other sonatas on the album clearly have high bandwidth, and are not upsampled.

 

I don't know if anybody cares, but for older BIS albums the files on eClassical are not normally bit-for-bit with the original CD. Most of them (up to the late nineties) were recorded with preemphasis, and that was true of the digital files when I first started using eClassical. Sometime around the end of 2013, the files were replaced. Deemphasis had been applied, and they'd been requantized to 16-bit. 

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From what I've seen, Qobuz is selling many Redbook boxsets at £16 which retail at eClassical for 3x, 4x or more as much.

Some of them are also available in Higher Res at eClassical but not a Qobuz.

 

Qobuz Redbook - £16

eClassical Redbook - $50 / £36

eClassical Studio (24/44.1) - $70 / £50

 

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas-ronald-brautigam/7318599920009

 

http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas.html

 

I'll have the Qobuz.


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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If all your listening is redbook, thus legacy recordings from some years back, that is a fair comparison of where they are being undercut.  Should you on the other hand enjoy current BIS recordings.  The extent to which you support their continued efforts is less straightforward. 

 

If I remind you Quobuz is very active in the act of price fixing.  Things go completely sideways.  That album on the GB site could sell at a higher price in practically any other country than it does on eClassical.  ;)

 

 

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I prefer buying the physical sacd bundle for 60€ and rip them myself to DSF

 

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I am aware of that. However, I am converting all music to DSD via HQplayer (embeded), so for me it makes sense to start from a professionally converted file. Less work to do by HQplayer

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3 minutes ago, ddetaey said:

I am aware of that. However, I am converting all music to DSD via HQplayer (embeded), so for me it makes sense to start from a professionally converted file. Less work to do by HQplayer

While this is certainly a nit, a small first world problem by any stretch....I will say this:  I'd much rather trust HQPlayer to take an original PCM recording to DSD (any bit rate) than assume the 3rd party doing BIS's SACD authoring process treated it as well.  But again, we all have bigger problems.  :)

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In my view all BIS recordings sound somehow subpar when streaming in Qobuz. It is strange, since I remember many BIS cs’s sounding Great. There’s a sense of flattened dynamics.

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On 3/17/2018 at 4:43 AM, semente said:

From what I've seen, Qobuz is selling many Redbook boxsets at £16 which retail at eClassical for 3x, 4x or more as much.

Some of them are also available in Higher Res at eClassical but not a Qobuz.

 

Qobuz Redbook - £16

eClassical Redbook - $50 / £36

eClassical Studio (24/44.1) - $70 / £50

 

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas-ronald-brautigam/7318599920009

 

http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas.html

 

I'll have the Qobuz.

 

 

Great price for the download at Qobuz. 

 

Other box set recommendations download hi res from Qobuz? 

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